Valve are better comedians than they are game designers

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

All class taunts

Gotta say that I dont remember a lot of these taunts. I think some of them have been replaced.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Many of them have been replaced, or were maybe not ever used. Most of the ones that involve running, for example.

 

[MetalCraze]

By now they are shit in both.

 

[.Sigurd]

The sniper.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

They are great game designers and comedians. Valve is wonderful. I want to kiss Gaben's ring.

 

[Gragt]

Don't you mean his cockring?

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Any ring will do.

 

[Black]

TF2 is still good, new items/hats or not B)

 

[barker_s]

Using this opportunity I'll ask you a question. Why does The Codex seem to hate Valve so much? They're focused on the PC, they make pretty good games, they update their damn games with new maps/weapons/campaigns for free (how many developers do that, huh?).

In before: "this is Codex, we hate everything mainstream".

 

[Jaesun]

Apparently you haven't played Half Life 2?

 

[barker_s]

I have played Half-Life 2 and while it wasn't their best game, it was a solid shooter and a base for a few nice mods.

 

[MetalCraze]

They're focused on the PC

they make pretty good games

They still make games?

they update their damn games with new maps/weapons/campaigns for free (how many developers do that, huh?).

Please buy our hat.

In before: "this is Codex, we hate everything mainstream".

Oh but Codex loves mainstream.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Please buy our hat.

TF2 had ton of free updates before item shop was made.

 

[MetalCraze]

Games were also better in the past millenium.

 

[barker_s]

They're focused on the PC

Care to elaborate? As far as I'm concerned they make games primarily for PC. All the updates we got for free, Xbawks users had to pay for because of some Microsoft policy.

Please buy our hat.

"Please buy our hat" is still better than "pay 5$ for a new map and two player skins or be ostracised", don't you think?

 

[Rhalle]

Whenever Pyro runs through and torches a bunch of enemies and you hear

Whah wah wah wah

it makes me laugh every time.

Said it before and I'll say it again: TF2 is (was?) a triumph of art direction and techne. May every game henceforth put as much effort into character and world design and all the rest.

If only the gameplay was as good. It's not bad, but it's not great, either. It rewards teamwork too much, and individual skill not enough.

It's solid and reasonably fun, but that's it. And you can bet people will still be playing Counter-Strike or RCTW when TF2 servers are empty.

 

[zeitgeist]

Care to elaborate? As far as I'm concerned they make games primarily for PC.

Valve makes games for console gamers who happen to own a PC.

 

[MetalCraze]

Zeitgeist nailed it well except Valve was making multiplatforms since when? When XBawks360 came out?
Have you noticed how Episodes gameplay quality went down when they moved to consoles?

"Please buy our hat" is still better than "pay 5$ for a new map and two player skins or be ostracised", don't you think?

It's still milking where they want money for something unneeded and stupid. Shades of grey don't apply.

 

[Rhalle]

And another thing about the 'rewarding skill' thing:

The shooting mechanics are like HL2-- they are too baggy, soggy, rather impotent and not twitchy enough. Demo spam bouncing all over, a minigun with a 10-foot random spread, sniper rifles with timers for accurate shots, impotent rockets with random crits, sentry guns that rape just for building them. Every thing feels purposefully gimped. There is little to no emphasis on learning the mechanics of the various weapons and becoming a better player through that, rewarding twitch skills and brains. A really good player can score high but has a hard time really turning the tide, whereas a team that isn't completely retarded but works together can roll up the other team completely. This is why TF2 is successful as a collective gaming experience but is sort of a failure as a shooter.


As for the hats and shit, TF2 obviously has become a working experiment for Valve's cash shop aspirations. What they learn will be applied to their version of DOTA, and perhaps-- God forbid-- the next iteration of the Orange box, whatever it may contain.

 

[barker_s]

Zeitgeist nailed it well except Valve was making multiplatforms since when? When XBawks360 came out?

Yeah, they do port their games to Xbox, not the other way around. They have released most of their games on Microsoft's console, but most of their work is focused on PC community, vide Steam and TF2 updates.

Have you noticed how Episodes gameplay quality went down when they moved to consoles?

I'm afraid I haven't. They were shorter and more focused on certain gameplay elements, but I wouldn't call them worse. Perhaps you can point me to the aspects you think Episodes got worse in.

It's still milking where they want money for something unneeded and stupid. Shades of grey don't apply.

But they don't demand money for some vital element of the game, like a new map. They're giving you an option to get some items that are only cosmetic and don't affect the gameplay. And they're not even shop-exclusive, you can drop them, trade for them or craft them without spending a penny. If you can't see the difference between that and paid mappack DLC's then there's not much left to discuss.


Edit:

Demo spam bouncing all over, a minigun with a 10-foot random spread, sniper rifles with timers for accurate shots, impotent rockets with random crits, sentry guns that rape just for building them. Every thing feels purposefully gimped.

Well, I beg to differ. I've been playing this game for over a year now and to me it all seems nicely balanced.

A minigun has a large random spread, but if you catch any class up close you rape them in less than 2 seconds. I don't want to think how overpowered Heavy would be if he had more accurate weapon.

Impotent rockets? They kill most classes with 2 direct hits and deal some nice splash damage.

Sentry guns are super easy to destroy when left unguarded. Even guarded they don't stand a chance against a Demoman who knows what he's doing.

This is why TF2 is successful as a collective gaming experience but is sort of a failure as a shooter.

Don't even get me started on this "good game, bad rpg" Codex newspeak...

 

[MetalCraze]

Yeah, they do port their games to Xbox, not the other way around.

Only Episode 1. Everything in Orange Box was for consoles right from the start. In fact Episode 2 was the first Valve "game" (well it's an addon yeah) to have unhealthy amounts of bloom. Wonder why.

They have released most of their games on Microsoft's console, but most of their work is focused on PC community, vide Steam and TF2 updates.

Just because they use Steam to sell console games doesn't mean they are focused on PC. They don't release TF2 on consoles for a simple reason. Multiplayer shooters cannot exist on consoles. And also because they would be forced to hold multiplayer servers themselves as you can't host on that truly next-generation hardware.
And now a bonus question - when was the last time Valve made a game? 3 years ago? And that was 4 hours long. They don't even make them anymore.

I'm afraid I haven't. They were shorter and more focused on certain gameplay elements, but I wouldn't call them worse. Perhaps you can point me to the aspects you think Episodes got worse in.

The most important would be instead of you shooting through masses of enemies and blowing shit up they were focused on a certain gameplay element like constantly listening to that annoying bitch whine.
HL2 was at least varied and you were constantly moving forward. Here it was like "listen for 5 minutes to Alyx talking boring shit, then kill 2-3 enemies, rince and repeat". And constanly try to defend her with some moments being "hold the ground!" because of that which is a death for an arcade shooter.

 

[barker_s]

Only Episode 1. Everything in Orange Box was for consoles right from the start. In fact Episode 2 was the first Valve "game" (well it's an addon yeah) to have unhealthy amounts of bloom. Wonder why.

There's not a thing in any of Orange Box's games that would make me think they were made with consoles in mind. Feel free to correct me though.

And as far as I remember it was Episode 1 that felt "overbloomed" (especially the early Citadel part). I think they learned to use it moderately in EP2, although I'd have to check it out to be 100% sure.

Just because they use Steam to sell console games doesn't mean they are focused on PC.
anymore.

We should really define what makes a game "a console game", because I'm having a hard time following your "because I said so" logic.

They don't release TF2 on consoles for a simple reason. Multiplayer shooters cannot exist on consoles. And also because they would be forced to hold multiplayer servers themselves as you can't host on that truly next-generation hardware.

There was plenty of multiplayer shooters on consoles last time I checked. And I don't think it would be such a problem for them to hold the official servers themselves, because they already do it, even on PC. Any other guesses?

And now a bonus question - when was the last time Valve made a game? 3 years ago? And that was 4 hours long. They don't even make them anymore.

November 2009 - Left 4 Dead 2. October 2010 if you count the campaign for L4D2 they've released for free. They also update all their games with patches and bugfixes all the time.

The most important would be instead of you shooting through masses of enemies and blowing shit up they were focused on a certain gameplay element like constantly listening to that annoying bitch whine.

I didn't mind it really, and I think in HL2 Alyx had longer speeches (Black Mesa East). Besides, that new facial animation technology and good use of motion capture made it worthwile.

HL2 was at least varied and you were constantly moving forward. Here it was like "listen for 5 minutes to Alyx talking boring shit, then kill 2-3 enemies, rince and repeat". And constanly try to defend her with some moments being "hold the ground!" because of that which is a death for an arcade shooter.

You mean, like in Nova Prospekt? Or defending her while she sabotaged some kind of generator? That was still HL2.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Multiplayer shooters cannot exist on consoles.

Must be trolling.

 

[MetalCraze]

There's not a thing in any of Orange Box's games that would make me think they were made with consoles in mind. Feel free to correct me though.

Episode 2 with its open spaces that looked more like corridors under the sky (HL2 had some relatively wide areas in contrast) and you fighting small amounts of enemies from 50m and lesser distances (again in contrast to HL2) pretty much shouts at you "we did it for consoles". You just can't aim with a gamepad.

We should really define what makes a game "a console game", because I'm having a hard time following your "because I said so" logic.

All multiplatform games are made with the lowest common denominator in mind - consoles because PC games like shooters and strategies are ultimately unplayable there. And so all multiplatforms look like they have a console gameplay ported to PC.
Good examples would be UT versus UT3.

There was plenty of multiplayer shooters on consoles last time I checked.

Yeah with the majority having less than 50 people playing them. And the ones that are a bit more popular than that are extremely dumbed down and primitive, forced into 50m x 50m areas so they are more like shooting ranges (see CoD) because there is no other way they would survive there.

November 2009 - Left 4 Dead 2.

What does Valve have to do with it? An engine?

Besides, that new facial animation technology and good use of motion capture made it worthwile.

Who cares about that in a genre where the good part comes from pressing a button and see shit blow up?

You mean, like in Nova Prospekt? Or defending her while she sabotaged some kind of generator? That was still HL2.

Worst parts of it you mean? The point is in HL2 that was a small part, in Episode 2 it's there all the time. If they removed all "protect Alyx" moments you would've completed the addon in under 2 hours.

 

[Twinkle]

Episode 2 with its open spaces that looked more like corridors under the sky (HL2 had some relatively wide areas in contrast) and you fighting small amounts of enemies from 50m and lesser distances (again in contrast to HL2) pretty much shouts at you "we did it for consoles".

Eh, vanilla HL2 was a corridor with skybox, so nothing new here. Also, I fail to remember fighting with a large amount of enemies simultaneously with the exception of a prison where you have to set up turrets to defend yourself from the onslaught.

All multiplatform games are made with the lowest common denominator in mind - consoles because PC games like shooters and strategies are ultimately unplayable there. And so all multiplatforms look like they have a console gameplay ported to PC.

That's true, but HL2 being an interactive rollercoaster has nothing to do with consoles. Ep2 is just following the tradition.

Have you noticed how Episodes gameplay quality went down when they moved to consoles?

What sort of quality are you talking about? Ep 1 was just as bloomy and crappy. That stupid section in the dark, closing respawn holes with cars, watching the bitch to snipe zombies while doing nothing and cheap CS emulation when you save the refugees.