Wasteland vs Fallout

[Higher Game]

I really wonder which game is better, or if they're just too different to compare. I've given a lot of thought about it.

Fallout seems to be better balanced. In Wasteland, the only fighting styles that matter are brawling, assault rifle, and energy weapons. Pistols, rifles, and submachine guns are worthless, and rockets are used very rarely. The Fallout weapons are damn close to each other in power. A hunting rifle and a submachine gun (forgot name) can be just as good as each other, depending on the situation. Unfortunately, they belong to the same weapon category.

Fallout armor is more advanced. The simple armor class system of Wasteland made an absolute hierarchy or armors, but Fallout (at least potentially, in theory) could have different armors for different enemies. Metal was great against lasers, for example. Wasteland armor lacks this depth.

Wasteland's party system is better, at least in practice. The game is designed for 4 rangers and 2 NPCs. Fallout is best played solo. The party systems in both Fallout games were hacks that took away from the experience. They only got in the way. The game is simply extremely limiting with a single character. It allows for a lot of roleplaying opportunities, but the lack of game balance got in the way. Hand to hand fighting was wortheless, so strength is greatly outclassed by perception. The Wasteland system is safer (and more boring), but the Fallout system is better in theory, if enough alternatives to quests are provided. Fallout was good at this, but not perfect. The whole party system of tankers, mages, and healers is boring, and the specialties of the Wasteland characters can get equally generic, while Fallout allows wildly different characters.

Wasteland's music blows. The beep and bleeps don't belong in any game, even 80's RPGs. Silence would have been better. It obviously couldn't compete with Fallout's amazing music and sound, but it could have done without sound altogether without problems. As it is now, Fallout slays Wasteland in sound.

Overall, I think Wasteland is a little better. Fallout had so much potential with the armors and party system, but it was wasted. Wasteland's simple weapon, armor, and party systems were executed much better than Fallout's. I think Fallout could have been so much better if some of the stupid parts, like the talking heads, were axed. The game was just too small and underdeveloped compared to Wasteland, which feels like a complete work. It's a shame, because Fallout could have been so much more.

 

[Lord Chambers]

Is Wasteland that game that was reviewed by the pre-teen who couldn't survive the initial scorpions?

 

[HotSnack]

Is Wasteland that game that was reviewed by the pre-teen who couldn't survive the initial scorpions?

You're probably thinking of Metal Heart (or something, I can't remember the name exactly).

 

[bryce777]

Well, I liked wasteland better but then it could be partly a nostalgia thing.

I also liked fallout 2 better than one, largely because it takes a lot of the quests directly from wasteland.

Anyhow, first I will address a few things you say before I go on, though.

Armor: actually, in practice does anyone carry around different armors for different opponents? To me this seems really lame. The armor system is great in fallout, almost ideal, but it is not something that makes a huge difference because the way armor works in wastelands is pretty good and is fairly well balanced.

Fighting: actually you need a good variety, otherwise you will run out of ammo as the game itself limits the ammo. Yes, though, the powergamer knows to use brawling 90% of the time and save his ammo.

Party system: I agree. Parties are much more fun to play han lone uber characters. I also like the learn by doing skill system much better than the artifical leveling skills up system.

music and graphics: well, it is an old game, and fallout was excellent in this regard so it does lose out here.


Here's what I really like though:

1. Exploration. I never felt like I was doing a quest in wasteland. Sometimes people ask you to do stuff, but what you are really doing is exploring and solving mysteries.

2. Challenge. You could get your ass whooped in wasteland. If you did something stupid you could also really gimp your party for a long time, as well. Also, things really mattered. For example, if you snuck into a guardroom you could kill the guards before they killed their hostage, but if you didn't it doesn't hold your hand and let you do it anyhow, and it doesn't point out you COULD have, he's just dead. If you figure it out, good on you and you get a big wad of money. if not, not. There's nothing I can think of like that in fallout. Same with dialog - you have to actually figure it out. If you are smart you can avoid a lot of bad situations like running in guns blazing into a bad area, and if not, not.

 

[Zomg]

You can't compare them. Wasteland's story and roleplaying, as I remember, are totally perfunctory sub- Gold Box affairs. Wasteland's combat is *much* better balanced than Fallout's - the way Wasteland does armor and skill progression means that every new area will absolutely be an interesting challenge for at least a few fights, unless you skip over areas or very conciously powergame. Fallout is about interactive narrative and roleplaying moreso than anything else, if not intentionally then in hindsight, because the combat is rarely tactically interesting (although it gets a lot of points for being gory fun). The only shared element between the games are good settings that are fraternal twins - Wasteland being mostly a "funny" post-apocalypse and Fallout having the retro-futuristic style.

 

[Human Shield]

I couldn't get into Wasteland's interface, graphics, or save system. No feedback for items or mechanics, I had to look at a walkthrough and found that luck was the most important skill and the which melee weapon does more damage.

 

[vazquez595654]

You're not alone. I tried to play it too. The game is not playable by today's standards. Anyone who is able to endure it now, is probably only able to, because of nostalgia. The game is way too aged to warrant serious play.

 

[bryce777]

No, it just takes an actual manual and a brain; in most cases players today will be lacking in both.

The only real annoyance is the paragraphs, which are a pain in the ass without a hardcopy manual.

 

[onerobot]

I just started playing Wasteland for the first time today, and I definitely don't agree that it's too aged to be playable. In fact, it looks kind of nice compared to Darklands, the last game I played, and it can't be chalked up to nostalgia as I completely missed out on the DOS era the first time around. Sure, the graphics are horrible at first but the excellent gameplay more than makes up for it, and a criminal amount of "aged" titles have no modern day equivalent. The lack of information that can be conveyed at such low resolutions is annoying and was often made up for with the manual, but I have yet to come across a title that I doesn't have a pdf copy of the manual floating around somewhere.

I obviously can't comment on the whole Fallout vs Wasteland argument, but I have to disagree that the hand-to-hand combat in Fallout was worthless. I made a character devoted entirely to close combat in Fallout 2 just to test if it was viable, and if anything it was overpowered, as enemies could almost always be knocked out in the first couple of hits. Coupled with an insane amount of APs and good use of cover it made for one very easy game.

 

[bryce777]

Yeah, the only point where melee is not very good is towards the beginning when it's better to keep a distance from people with burst weapons. There's an easy solution, though; either run or else keep your distance a few rounds to let them waste their ammo.

 

[kris]

Wasteland is a semi-forced linear game. You are forced to go by the linear line since it does not make much sense otherwise and the combat is balanced in you being at the right place at the right time. Go to the wrong place and you WILL die.

Like most other older RPGs there is a abundance of combat, something Fallout moved away from with actually giving you options to do other things.

Trying to play Wasteland half a year ago I found it boring and had to fight the UI.

 

[Higher Game]

Armor: actually, in practice does anyone carry around different armors for different opponents? To me this seems really lame. The armor system is great in fallout, almost ideal, but it is not something that makes a huge difference because the way armor works in wastelands is pretty good and is fairly well balanced.

Having to carry around more armors for different opponents would make strength more important. People would have less of an incentive to crank perception and agility to 10 and depend on power armor to pump strength (which was a terrible, unbalanced idea).

Fighting: actually you need a good variety, otherwise you will run out of ammo as the game itself limits the ammo. Yes, though, the powergamer knows to use brawling 90% of the time and save his ammo.

I wasn't seeking to be a powergamer, and even I used brawling most of the time. I was just pissed off at the range of 2 squares of those pistols, a whopping 1 square over melee. I sold off the pistols and clips because I needed money for decent armor, and I was pleasantly surprised that melee fighting was better! I did have some rifle guys, though. Looking back, I think I could have skipped even rifles and gone completely to assault rifles.

Party system: I agree. Parties are much more fun to play han lone uber characters. I also like the learn by doing skill system much better than the artifical leveling skills up system.

Here's my progression of characers preference. Fallout tries to aim for the first one, which is the hardest to pull off, and it comes closer than any other game I've known.

Limited, RPG-based character (thief, mage, barbarian) > Flexible, boring, stable party > Single ubermensche

I like the combined system of wasteland where both skill points and learning by doing apply to a skill. It's flawed that skill points are only good for pumping up a skill to level 1 or 2, because the exponential requirement is just unbalanced, so learning by doing becomes the only way for high skills at the late game, which is bad.

music and graphics: well, it is an old game, and fallout was excellent in this regard so it does lose out here.

Wasteland would have looked better as a roguelike, I think. In fact, that would probably make the interface better, which is the #1 complaint I see about it now. What was eye-candy back then is just painful to look at now. I think a certain other game will be remembered like this.

1. Exploration. I never felt like I was doing a quest in wasteland. Sometimes people ask you to do stuff, but what you are really doing is exploring and solving mysteries.

Damn straight. The fucking water chip timer in Fallout 1 and the annoying GECK dreams in Fallout 2 only got in the way. Wasteland owns in this regard. Hell, even generic fantasy RPGs do well here. A "great evil" threatens the land, so go out and defeat whatever it is! Keep it simple. Granted, Fallout took to this approach once the mutants were discovered, but the 90% of the game involving the water chip was annoying.

2. Challenge. You could get your ass whooped in wasteland. If you did something stupid you could also really gimp your party for a long time, as well. Also, things really mattered. For example, if you snuck into a guardroom you could kill the guards before they killed their hostage, but if you didn't it doesn't hold your hand and let you do it anyhow, and it doesn't point out you COULD have, he's just dead. If you figure it out, good on you and you get a big wad of money. if not, not. There's nothing I can think of like that in fallout. Same with dialog - you have to actually figure it out. If you are smart you can avoid a lot of bad situations like running in guns blazing into a bad area, and if not, not.

That hostage situation pissed me off. It said he died of "torture", which implied that he was killed slowly over a length of time. If it had said his neck was slit, I would have realized that I had screwed up the mission. Another ridiculous thing is how to learn the password to Savage village. These 2 things I only learned from looking at a guide, since I had everyone with auto rifles and in Vegas and really wanted to know what was up with that little village at the beginning.

Finally, I have to tell you guys who are giving up early to try Wasteland again. The game is practically Fallout 0, but just different. The poor interface is a problem, I agree, but taking an hour to learn it (at most) is worth the 20+ hours of great gameplay Wasteland offers.

 

[bryce777]

"That hostage situation pissed me off." I see what you mean, but I think part of the problem with games now is that they never piss you off. You never have to strain your brain like I remember doing in games like dragon wars to figure out what to do next; even bard's tale required puzzle solving and actual mapping.

 

[obediah]

"That hostage situation pissed me off." I see what you mean, but I think part of the problem with games now is that they never piss you off. You never have to strain your brain like I remember doing in games like dragon wars to figure out what to do next; even bard's tale required puzzle solving and actual mapping.

You'd love the hitman demo on the 360. The top of the screen is dedicated to telling you exactly what you need to do next.

"Walk to the Main Gate" ( and theres a giant gate that says "Main Gate" on it)
"Open the brown door"
"Walk past this doorway"
"Get on top of the elevator"
"Strangle this dude" (and on the other side of the screen their is an "A" button icon that states it will strange the dude if you press it )
"Disable the power box right there on the wall"
"Sneak past these guys"

I hope the rest of the game isn't like that.

The system of having the buttons be part of the GUI is quite the immersion killer. The feedback it gives isn't all bad, but just having actionable objects light up or something as you approach them would be less intrusive.

 

[bryce777]

 

[Higher Game]

Haha, GTA:San Andreas was like that.

 

[Higher Game]

You're not alone. I tried to play it too. The game is not playable by today's standards. Anyone who is able to endure it now, is probably only able to, because of nostalgia. The game is way too aged to warrant serious play.

By the way, I played Wasteland seriously for the first time just in the last few weeks, and had played it on and off for a year or so earlier. The game is definitely playable. I have no nostalgia because I never had a DOS computer. Windows 98 was my first.

In fact, the only games I'd say are unplayable are the pre Ultima IV games. They were terribly unbalanced, but they were the only RPGs around, so they got away with it. Ultima IV and afterwards had much better games that can be enjoyed without nostalgia.

 

[Imbecile]

You'd love the hitman demo on the 360. The top of the screen is dedicated to telling you exactly what you need to do next.


.

Havent played it myself, but my mate has the game. He said that the Demo is fairly arse, but the actual game is pretty good. He gave a few cool examples about killing an actor on stage. Something like you can cunningly snipe this guy as he is getting shot on stage if you time it well enough you get some extra escape leeway. Or you can switch guns with the actor or pretends to shoot him, for additional comedy value. Seems like it has plenty of potential, I just could never get to grips with the controls.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Isn't there rumors of a Wasteland sequel from Brian Fargo?

 

[TalesfromtheCrypt]

Isn't there rumors of a Wasteland sequel from Brian Fargo?

Indeed there is, word is the game's gonna be shit.

 

[obediah]

Isn't there rumors of a Wasteland sequel from Brian Fargo?

You've got to love a guy that makes his living shitting all over your childhood. I can only assume he served as a consultant on Pool of Radiance, and is getting the rights to populous as we speak. And of course his coup-de-grace, a Mail-Order Monsters remake that is just a reskin of Tekken IX.

 

[Johannes Teugen]

Isn't there rumors of a Wasteland sequel from Brian Fargo?

You've got to love a guy that makes his living shitting all over your childhood. I can only assume he served as a consultant on Pool of Radiance, and is getting the rights to populous as we speak. And of course his coup-de-grace, a Mail-Order Monsters remake that is just a reskin of Tekken IX.

Man, I loved the fuck out of Mail Order Monsters. That (and Archon) were my non-Ultima C64 drugs of choice.

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

fallout has bdetter graphics, and I realy don't feel like playing a game that looks like it was on the NES when it first came out.

 

[Higher Game]

I will have to add in something. It's really something minor, but worth mentioning. Fallout has an absolutely badass final boss. Wasteland focuses on tacking different enemies in tactical combat, while avoiding the consolish uberboss syndrome. Fallout actually pulls off a final boss really well. If you don't feel like going all the way through Wasteland, don't worry too much, because the best part is the midgame. It's all good, obviously, but the middle of the game is the best.

It's graphically not that bad. Once you get used to it, it's just as compelling as Fallout is. In many ways, it's better. Let me think of the ideas Fallout recycled. :twisted:

#1- The howitzer. Obviously, the howitzer is funnier and cooler in Wasteland. :twisted:
#2- Finding and destroying a hidden base that threatens civilization. In Wasteland it's robots and in Fallout it's mutants. Damn near the same thing.
#3- Finding an abandoned base to load up on gear to kick ass before the final stage. In Fallout 1 it was the nuked base, in Fallout 2 the Sierra army depot, and in Wasteland the abandoned sleeper base.
#4- Spears. Both Fallout and Wasteland have spears in the post apocalyptic world, despite an abundance of ammo.
#5- Fallout 2 and Wasteland both have Las Vegas, but Fallout 2's Vegas is out of place.
#6- Fallout's junktown is very similar to Wasteland's Savage village.
#7- Power armor, although the Fallout graphics are very unique for it.

That's all I can come up with so far, but trust me, the games have so many similarities. All Fallout fans should play through Wasteland.

 

[HanoverF]

Cup and Ball owns Wasteland and Fallout. They can't hold a candle to cup and ball, and they shouldn't as cup and ball can be flammable