What happened to "mature" art direction? Everything is Overwatch now

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Those characters aren’t going for realism. Gizmo look like he could be a Ghostbusters ghost.

Impressive mental gymnastics but I think you are just retarded. You are cherry picking Gizmo's head, and even then it still looks like an old man's face.

This would be a great point if Gizmo was the only character I brought up. It’s OK, you made stupid a thread, you fucked up with your examples, and now you’re just being a bitch about it.

Gizmo looks like he could be the third Scoleri brother. He looks like an old man if that old man was from Sin City or Dick Tracy. Gizmo does not look like a normal human. Gizmo looks like a caricature. The Fallout characters don’t look like normal humans. Everyone is stylized. Anyone with eyes can see that. Butch Harris looks like Hammerhead from Spider-Man if Hammerhead was going bald. Decker practically looks like an older version of Marv from Sin City.

Funnily when you search that drawing of Decker it returns a bunch of Marv and Frankenstein drawing.

 

[Hydro]

now you’re just being a bitch about it

No u

 

[tritosine2k]

both Overwatch and Fallout are cartoony

These humans have realistic proportions, objects are realistic, colors are realistic and subdued

Cope more

Yeah, cope more.

This is what those realistically proportioned humans are meant to look like when you can actually see their faces.

Humans in Fallout either look like characters out of Frank Miller’s Sin City comic, the Gelflings from The Dark Crystal, or a Arthur Rackham wizard. None of those three things I’d say fall under “realism” in any way. If a modern Fallout game actually made the characters look like they were meant to look in the first two games you’d probably be bitching about it.

That's 90s cgi look... That was the ceiling of realistic cgi back then.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

both Overwatch and Fallout are cartoony

These humans have realistic proportions, objects are realistic, colors are realistic and subdued

Cope more

Yeah, cope more.

This is what those realistically proportioned humans are meant to look like when you can actually see their faces.

Humans in Fallout either look like characters out of Frank Miller’s Sin City comic, the Gelflings from The Dark Crystal, or a Arthur Rackham wizard. None of those three things I’d say fall under “realism” in any way. If a modern Fallout game actually made the characters look like they were meant to look in the first two games you’d probably be bitching about it.

That's 90s cgi look... That was the ceiling of realistic cgi back then.

It’s not even a texture thing. Both the models, and the concept art for the models are highly stylized. And I don’t just mean the in game models, I’m talking the sculpted models they made to be scanned are stylized. Fallout wasn’t going for realism with the talking heads. The portraits for the three premade characters that you can pick are also highly stylized.

There’s almost a kind of Simon Bisley quality to those three character portraits.

This conversation is so bizarre. It’s like someone saying the talking heads in GTA2 weren’t meant to be cartoony, or that Parasite Eve on the PSX wasn’t going for an anime look because back in 1998 it felt realistic to them.

Here’s two of the talking head models.

Are they detailed? Yes. Are they realistic? No. If you went into some cool Halloween mask shop in the mall in the ‘90s and saw those, realistic would not be what you’d think. Forget the Super Mutant. Just to make a actual person look like the human one you’d need to put a number of prosthetics on their face. The human face is like a slightly less exaggeration version of Gandalf from the Rankin and Bass Hobbit cartoon, and only slightly less because the nose isn’t as long. Although it’s a pretty long head, Morpheus has a long head.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Can you give examples of games from the nineties with realistic character models in close up convos, cutscenes etc that are not fmv?

 

[Lyric Suite]

Planescape Torment is has highly stylized cartoony character designs.

No it fucking isn't lmao.

Who is this fucking retard?

 

[Ash]

I know. I am not even an anime head, but I watched the best...

Pretty much my mindset too, though I wont staunchly defend it as I've not seen anywhere close to it all, especially more modern anime as it is indeed effeminate as hell.
You have a top ten? Maybe you have something for me. I haven't watched anything in years and I surely missed a genuine classic or two in this area.

1. Akira
2. Cyber City: File 2
3. Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind
4. Ninja Scroll
5. Avatar: The Last Airbender (arguably not anime but whatever)
6. Appleseed
7. Dorohedoro
8. Castle in the Sky
9. Fist of the North Star
10. Ghost in the Shell SAC

 

[Lemming42]

Humans in Fallout either look like characters out of Frank Miller’s Sin City comic, the Gelflings from The Dark Crystal,

For years I thought I was the only person who had an inexplicable mental connection between Fallout and The Dark Crystal. It's the clay models and the strange UI and the general feeling of nausea-inducing grunginess. It definitely feels like it harkens in some ways to those weird old 80s puppet-heavy films like TDC and Labyrinth and all that. The way radscorpions and deathclaws move on-screen almost looks like stopmotion.

This is how live action Fallout looks in my head:



If Tim hadn't cut the talking racoons, I bet they would have really invoked this style.

If I were in charge of the Amazon Falllout TV series, I'd a) kill myself to avoid taking part and b) make it look like this.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Planescape Torment is has highly stylized cartoony character designs.

No it fucking isn't lmao.

Who is this fucking retard?

Yeah, very realistic.

Look at The Nameless One’s face. Those are highly stylized proportions. The game isn’t shooting for reality.

 

[Hydro]

The game isn’t shooting for reality.

Let’s start with the colour palette that is much more grounded and yes realistic.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Planescape Torment is has highly stylized cartoony character designs.

No it fucking isn't lmao.

Who is this fucking retard?

Yeah, very realistic.

Look at The Nameless One’s face. Those are highly stylized proportions. The game isn’t shooting for reality.

Some of it is style, some is the inherent limits of the tech they used for cinematics then. In neither case i would call this "cartoony".

 

[HeatEXTEND]

But they're not gonna start impulsively doing anything sexual

Wtf yes they will lol.

I know. I am not even an anime head, but I watched the best...

Pretty much my mindset too, though I wont staunchly defend it as I've not seen anywhere close to it all, especially more modern anime as it is indeed effeminate as hell.
You have a top ten? Maybe you have something for me. I haven't watched anything in years and I surely missed a genuine classic or two in this area.

1. Akira
2. Cyber City: File 2
3. Nausicaa: Valley of the Wind
4. Ninja Scroll
5. Avatar: The Last Airbender (arguably not anime but whatever)
6. Appleseed
7. Dorohedoro
8. Castle in the Sky
9. Fist of the North Star
10. Ghost in the Shell SAC

Missing Trigun at the very least.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Planescape Torment is has highly stylized cartoony character designs.

No it fucking isn't lmao.

Who is this fucking retard?

Yeah, very realistic.

Look at The Nameless One’s face. Those are highly stylized proportions. The game isn’t shooting for reality.

Some of it is style, some is the inherent limits of the tech they used for cinematics then. In neither case i would call this "cartoony".

Working within the limits of technology doesn’t change anything, and is something good developers have been doing since before the ‘90s. And yes, the characters are very clearly cartoony. The style is cartoony. But the technology is also a total non issue. If Planescape: Torment had come out yesterday, and Nameless One was all covered in realistic textures, but he still had the same proportions as in the 1999 game, he’d still be cartoony.

Here’s a picture from the live-action Dick Tracy movie.

Nobody would look at that picture and argue that the way in which they’ve styled the makeup isn’t cartoony. And Flattop is one of the more subtle ones.

You see that new Street Fighter 6 game that came out last year? The character models have more realistic looking textures. They have realistic looking hair since it looks like single strands now. But the characters are still highly stylized. They aren’t trying to make them look like real people. They’re still cartoony.

It feels like some of you think cartoony is a synonym for bad and just rejecting the idea out of hand as some kind of attack.

 

[luj1]

It feels like some of you think cartoony is a synonym for bad

Back in the day it wasn't. Grim Fandango for example

Nowadays, 90% of the time it is.

 

[luj1]

Yeah, very realistic.

Look at The Nameless One’s face. Those are highly stylized proportions. The game isn’t shooting for reality.

You are cherry picking so much you're gonna shit yourself

 

[luj1]

Also don't forget that back in the day games could be cartoony AND brutal at the same time (Heart of Darkness death animations, Abe's Oddysee death animations)

 

[NecroLord]

Also don't forget that back in the day games could be cartoony AND brutal at the same time (Heart of Darkness death animations, Abe's Oddysee death animations)

Fallout death animations.

 

[Hydro]

Also don't forget that back in the day games could be cartoony AND brutal at the same time (Heart of Darkness death animations, Abe's Oddysee death animations)

Fallout death animations.

I don’t think I’ve seen anything more brutal in the gaming industry ever since. I remember seeing it for the first time — I was shocked and amazed and I’d absolutely fallen in love with Fallout.

I wonder if Tim Cain ever mentioned anything about this violence aesthetics in his vlog. I’d assume they were drawing inspiration from the VHS era conflicts footage.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

 

[deuxhero]

Humans in Fallout either look like characters out of Frank Miller’s Sin City comic, the Gelflings from The Dark Crystal,

For years I thought I was the only person who had an inexplicable mental connection between Fallout and The Dark Crystal. It's the clay models and the strange UI and the general feeling of nausea-inducing grunginess. It definitely feels like it harkens in some ways to those weird old 80s puppet-heavy films like TDC and Labyrinth and all that. The way radscorpions and deathclaws move on-screen almost looks like stopmotion.

This is how live action Fallout looks in my head:



If Tim hadn't cut the talking racoons, I bet they would have really invoked this style.

If I were in charge of the Amazon Falllout TV series, I'd a) kill myself to avoid taking part and b) make it look like this.

Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky have explicitly stated this movie was one of the biggest influences on Fallout visually.

edit: That's an unofficial trailer

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Yeah Fallout 1 and 2 are quite clearly going for stylised aesthetics

 

[luj1]

Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky have explicitly stated this movie was one of the biggest influences on Fallout visually.

La Jete and Dr Strangelove too

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Also don't forget that back in the day games could be cartoony AND brutal at the same time (Heart of Darkness death animations, Abe's Oddysee death animations)

What does this have to do with anything I said? I didn’t say cartoony games couldn’t be violent. Hell, a good deal of first bunch of characters from Overwatch seem like they’re ripoffs of characters from Anarchy Reigns, which was a follow-up of sorts to MadWorld, and both those PlatinumGames are violent.

All I said was that the first two original Fallout games (and Planescape: Torment) are cartoony, and that framing the point as “cartoony bad, when I was a kid games were realistic like this” is dumb. I don’t even really get what your original point was even meant to be. If anything it seems like as time has went on most big games are aiming for realism in their visuals. When I saw the first post I had to look if someone bumped an old thread from around when Apex Legends came out. I don’t think people have given much of a shit about Overwatch since the 2022 rebrand as Overwatch 2.

I big cartoon and violent series would be GTA, which to one degree or another was pretty cartoon with its character designs up until GTA5.

 

[Machocruz]

Yeah, you're probably right. The sense of realism they do have over Overwatch is a byproduct of them simply being far more detailed. But there of course had to have been at least some conscious effort to not make the characters look like Disney, but rather more inline with reality. Especially the isometric sprites.

You weren't wrong the first time. Sort of. There is fluidity in categories of representational art, and a spectrum. And intention matters. They could have been attempting CARICATURE, which involves the accentuation of idiosyncrasies in real physiology. Cartooning is like going the opposite way, negation or reduction. Caricature can or cannot seek to maintain or subtract from the level of naturalistic (what most gamers mean when they talk about 'realism' in video games) detail of the thing being caricatured, cartoons almost always severely reduce or subtract.

Or it can just be that they were aiming to render realistically but didn't quite make it. Then is it "cartoony" or just less skilled "realism"? Is falling short of the theoretical limit of what was possible at the time cartoony? Was El Greco cartoony because Caravaggio?

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Humans in Fallout either look like characters out of Frank Miller’s Sin City comic, the Gelflings from The Dark Crystal,

For years I thought I was the only person who had an inexplicable mental connection between Fallout and The Dark Crystal. It's the clay models and the strange UI and the general feeling of nausea-inducing grunginess. It definitely feels like it harkens in some ways to those weird old 80s puppet-heavy films like TDC and Labyrinth and all that. The way radscorpions and deathclaws move on-screen almost looks like stopmotion.

This is how live action Fallout looks in my head:



If Tim hadn't cut the talking racoons, I bet they would have really invoked this style.

If I were in charge of the Amazon Falllout TV series, I'd a) kill myself to avoid taking part and b) make it look like this.

Tim Cain and Leonard Boyarsky have explicitly stated this movie was one of the biggest influences on Fallout visually.

edit: That's an unofficial trailer

Yeah, I used to watch this a bunch back whenever it was playing on Sci-Fi Channel. They were probably watching it on Sci-Fi as the game was being developed.

There was also a City of Lost Children game that came out the same year as Fallout.