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When talking rpgs: the word "lore" is a good moron indicator

When talking rpgs: the word "lore" is a good moron indicator

  • yes

    Votes: 36 23.2%
  • no

    Votes: 41 26.5%
  • OP is a fucking faggot who doesn't know shit about RPGs

    Votes: 19 12.3%
  • Wizardry fucking sucks ugh ban this fuck and his tired turn-based shtick

    Votes: 3 1.9%
  • I think the OP is a faggot but I agree w/ this

    Votes: 8 5.2%
  • I think the OP is a faggot but he is right the codex has gone to fucking shit

    Votes: 4 2.6%
  • Fuck any rpg that isn't turn-based

    Votes: 9 5.8%
  • i think the OP knows about RPGs, at least more than the majority of posters. Ban him anyway.

    Votes: 6 3.9%
  • Kingcomrade

    Votes: 24 15.5%
  • Puzzles in rpg's are just something taken from Adventure Games and are usually filler

    Votes: 5 3.2%

  • Total voters
    155

mitochondritom

Educated
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
Games having tonnes of fluff / backstory doesn't bother me, but I sort of agree with you OP in that I cringe whenever someone talks about the LORE of Halo or some shit like it was written in cuneiform on some ancient rock. I always thought lore as a term was something to do with druids, but I probably gleaned that from Asterix and Obelix.
 

Got bored and left

Guest
Games having tonnes of fluff / backstory doesn't bother me, but I sort of agree with you OP in that I cringe whenever someone talks about the LORE of Halo or some shit like it was written in cuneiform on some ancient rock. I always thought lore as a term was something to do with druids, but I probably gleaned that from Asterix and Obelix.

Nah, the word "lore" does mean collective knowledge, especially traditional and transmitted orally. Which is why people using it to mean the backstory of a game makes me wanna punt babies.
 

Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
A WTF Thread.
The OP making sentences without a specific context to show that if someone is using the word "lore" indicates that the person is a moron. (Perhaps he wants to validate one example of this rule on himself.)
This shows that the OP does not understand that "lore" is a part of the playing environment or better said it is a background decoration in an RPG that indicates the rules and development of a specific "world".
Btw: I have never used or ever will use the word "lore", because in my opinion this is a to broad term that explains nothing, but catches all.
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
this thread has turned out much better than i expected; some insightful posts.

- 1 dude (which i agree-emoticon'd with) pointed out that lore should not be relegated to worthless "lore books" or the like (unless done well, such as in F: NV with the Survivalist's notes, which btw people are NOT! "lore" it's called CHARACTERIZATION and WRITING); and instead this stuff should primarily be presented via characterization, via plot developments, via GAMEPLAY slices, etc, games are interactive experiences first and foremost people!!

- Several dudes (which I emoticon-agree'd with) pointed out that lore is "fluff", and that it is shit included in games to serve as band-aids and as crutches for bad world-building (i.e. the player doesn't discover the world through gameplay and instead discovers it via hunting down lore dumps) and other such sentiments that fall in line with this.

- Other dudes pointed out that the word has been raped into meaninglessness by young'uns who cite Baldur's Gate as some sort of example of an "old game". I emoticon-agree'd with the person who pointed this out because it is very true: it is a catch-all term that means a specific thing in the dictionary but in modern-day RPG parlance it can mean anythig, like the "lore" behind mario's jump.

- the other person (whom i emoticon-disagree'd with) who cited Baldur's Gate and Dagger fall as examples as old games needs to go level up in their edginess a lil' bit. I recommend playing some more Wireframe dungeon crawlers first and some gold box games as well before making posts again that utilize games like those as examples of anthing historically significant.

Another term (and this one can be blamed on us) is the incoming meaninglessness of C&C as well. We need to start having serious business discussions about the different types of C&C and what real C&C is and what fake C&C is because i'm beginning to see posts talking about C&C in motherfucking Mankind Divided and in fucking Dark souls so... this has the potetianl to become 100x more terri-bad than the rape of the word 'lore'.
 

thesheeep

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
9,956
Location
Tampere, Finland
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Won't vote due to lack of mandatory voting option.

But OP is right in that lore has nothing to do with the genre.
In theory, at least, any genre and any game within a genre, no matter if good or bad, can have lore that might also be good or bad.

The only bad thing is when a game that puts an emphasis on its lore has shitty lore.
 

Neanderthal

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
3,626
Location
Granbretan
Good method o background info being delivered is seen in Torment thread Lord Azlan is playing: Abishai are immune to normal weapons, so you get a quest demonstrating this that you stumble upon, cos you also get a quest to kill an Abishai yoursen in that area. Three Thokola, spoiled Harmonium bitch settin em up to die at hands of Abishai who they don't know they can't even harm. Good interesting little bit on organic exposition, you learn about Harmonium being dicks sometimes, you learn about Thokola, you're warned without it being blatant to use a magic weapon versus Abishai, background life o Lower Ward is fleshed out and its all fucking optional more importantly, there for you to take or leave.

Good design that gives you lotsa "lore" on various things but delivers it right an dunt underestimate player or jolt him outta world, it makes world better simulated an more interesting. This is why I like MCA design.
 

harhar!

Augur
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
225
Nah, the word "lore" does mean collective knowledge, especially traditional and transmitted orally. Which is why people using it to mean the backstory of a game makes me wanna punt babies.

Can you give an example of "lore" in a CRPG that isn't just backstory?
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
the reason i dind't include Clayton's username as a voting option is because:

- fucking newfags who have never even talked to KC demanding the option on eveyr poll
- fucking newfags who don't know why it started being included on polls demanding the option on every poll
- out of respect for my close, personal friend KC
- did i mention newfags being annoying?
 

V_K

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
7,714
Location
at a Nowhere near you
the reason i dind't include Clayton's username as a voting option is because:

- fucking newfags who have never even talked to KC demanding the option on eveyr poll
- fucking newfags who don't know why it started being included on polls demanding the option on every poll
- out of respect for my close, personal friend KC
- did i mention newfags being annoying?
I'm pretty sure thesheeep meant the other mandatory option. The "OP is a moron faggot" one.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
I can't tell whether that is an adhominen attack or whether you are citing something real... therefore i give you a brofist as that is the best kind! Will add.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,427
lore is entertaining fluff in games. Its not necessarily bad world building. Japanese put zero writing outside of character skits in their games because they know their created lore or writing is hideo kojima tier, people in a island shut off from rest of the world massive incest tier kind of like Puerto Rico. Anyways I like reading books in games like morrowind the books are really short and entirely optional. Its a step up from babby batter diaper wire dungeon crawler games of old.
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
that makes me a bit sad because i don't want beef with anyone. you at least play turn-based blobbers and even though our opinions differ on the importance of puzzles in them that alone makes you someone i respect as a lot of new posters view turn-based blobbers with derision.
 

Got bored and left

Guest
Nah, the word "lore" does mean collective knowledge, especially traditional and transmitted orally. Which is why people using it to mean the backstory of a game makes me wanna punt babies.

Can you give an example of "lore" in a CRPG that isn't just backstory?

My problem isn't that lore should be something more than a game's backstory, but that this term shouldn't be used in this context period, because it means something completely different and unrelated - and this is something of a pet hate of mine, especially given how often "lore" is thrown around. "Fluff" is the word I'd use.
 
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aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
my real problem with lore is:

- it's a catch-all that can be used to mean anything from a character's backstory (another word i hate) to an anecdote from a character in the game world to the history behind a country, town, faction, continent, weapon, armor, item; and dozens of other things that are all individual their meaning within the context of the game's systems, mechanics, narrative, plot, characters, writing, characterizations, story-telling, itemization, area and dungeon design and many other important moving parts become denigrated when swept under the all-encompassing umbrella of "lore".

- it removes depth from any RPG discussion because it hampers successful deconstruction of all of the many, many elements which must conflate, influence, relate, and work in concert for an RPG template to become more than the sum of its parts.

Very common type of comment that arises when, (incoming specific example), someone dares to criticize the LARPing that players enjoy when they talk about the Lore Books (TM) that make Bethesda game such moving cinematic ludonarrative IMAX real-3D experiences:

"So, yeah, i'm not enjoying Oblivion whatsoever, it is fucking atrocious"

"But dude you gotta find all the Lore Books (TM)!!!!! They really flesh out the history of the game and give everything so much life and depth!"

"No, son, you're mistaken. A game should always attempt to present an interactive experience and finding a Lore Book (TM) inside someone's house and then crediting the (always badly written) book with elevating the game's story, or narrative or writing in any way whatsoever is a complete falsehood and to top it off it's just bad game design!"

"No, fuck you aweigh, it is gameplay because you find them in the game and some are hidden!!!"

"Sorry, but you are a dumpster baby come to life and I must disagree. Walking around in an RPG and finding something like those Lore Books (TM) does not constitute RPG gameplay. If it was tied to a quest and if finding said books carried some sort of consequence or presented some interactive conflict one could participate in some way; if for example one could use what is in those books to educate an NPC in the game then it can be argued that the books are part of the RPG gameplay, or even more simple; if they were valuable loot or gave some type of game-ified progression then it could be argued they are part of the itemization design"

"ARGH fuck you I hate turn-based blobbers I hate wizardry those games are old OMG LOL fuck you aweigh I fucking hate you so much and your inability to recognize non-Turn-Based games as legitimate RPGs! You are such a narrow minded retard fuck I fucking hate you go jack off to Wizardry 7 again you cuck"

"You child-like brain tumor, I think Wizardry 7 is not a real Wizardry title and while it is a fantastic RPG in its own right I have discussed many times before that western Wizardry irrevocably changed when D.W. Bradley took over because he eliminated the dungeon crawling and all of the gameplay-driven choice and consequence that makes up the Wizardry 1-5 blueprint"

*expletives*
*expletives*
*someone Acknowledges This User's Agenda*
*500 people rated your post as shit*

If it's just a book laying there with a ton of badly written "lore" that has zero consequence on the gameplay then it is something called an "Easter Egg"; akin to when a movie studio makes a fake website containing "lore" about the movie that has no relevance on the actual movie such as the fake website of chronicling the Blair Witch Project's axe-murderer mythos. Arguably interesting to read but it has no bearing on the merits of the movie. It is something "extra" that is there for the enjoyment of the people who find them and if/when they take the place of proper writing in the game, i.e. actual game design, then we have a huge problem.
 
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ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,371
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the reason i dind't include Clayton's username as a voting option is because:

- fucking newfags who have never even talked to KC demanding the option on eveyr poll
- fucking newfags who don't know why it started being included on polls demanding the option on every poll
- out of respect for my close, personal friend KC
- did i mention newfags being annoying?
It's codex lore to include kc on polls bro.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,038
Location
Platypus Planet
Plot
9mGadZJ.png
vs

Lore
HVqmeDD.png

Which is more important?
 

nikolokolus

Arcane
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
4,090
There's nothing wrong with having interesting and robust world-building, but it sure as hell won't save a shitty game.
 

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