Why are games so bloody easy these days?

[JarlFrank]

The 12-year olds of today are stupid fucks who get everything shoved up their ass. Back when we were 12, we had to draw maps of the dungeons on paper, minmax the 200 stats of our characters and, to make the game work at all, learn 500-page OS manuals by heart so we wouldn't fuck up the install.

of youths.

But in all seriousness, the modern (mostly teenage) audience doesn't want to spend any effort on their games, they just want to lay back on their couch and enjoy their gaming "experience". Industry capitalizes on it by creating easy games en masse (which are easier to design than hard games because they require less balancing) and making shitloads of money thusly.

 

[Phage]

I'd like to quickly point out that a lot of old games seemed very difficult because they of technical shortcomings. There's a difference between something being genuinely difficult, and a game that simply has a shitty control scheme or camera angles.


edit - This applies to action games rather than RPGs.

 

[Ermm]

The video definitely wasn't about difficulty. He does come off as psuedo-intellectual and preachy, but he does raise some valid points.

As for the actual question - I think one of the reasons why games seem easier now is that we've played them for years now.

"The depth can be in a form of choosing a perfect pokemon team" - stopped watching this shit right there

www.smogon.com seriously, pokemon has more depth than 90% of games out there.

If so, then Asian MMO grinders also counts. And WOW then is 99% deeper than other games.
Seriously, it is only grind, grind and grind. And right team? Really? Just grind you pokemon furiously and you will wipe them out.
I admit I played one version (I think it was red) long ago, and I understood it was shit after some while.
It doesn't matter if Nintendo maked it, random encounters were too much.

So. I'm guessing you literally didn't read anything on that site, right?

Here's a bit of a rundown. "Competitive Pokemon" (I know, laugh it up, but listen anyways) is pretty damn strategic minus the occasional critical hit.

All competitive games are played on simulators or over WiFi where all the pokemon are the same level. So no, you cannot just "grind" into competitive. All the high powered legendary pokemon are banned, as are a couple really strong ones. Retarded completely luck based moves like double team, are banned.

What matters is (and this is an extremely stripped down explanation)

- The composition of your team (too much of one weakness will lead to an easy defeat. having too many frail pokemon is bad. having no strong sweepers is hard to win with, etc)

- the EV allocation on your pokemon (pokemon gain effort points based on the enemies they defeat. By selective battling you can train certain stats to be higher. For example, speed and attack for a sweeper pokemon, or HP for a defensive tank.)

- Pokemon Natures, based on the nature of your pokemon it gains 10% more in one stat and loses 10% in another. Important to make the right sacrifice.

- Movesets. This is crucial. If you go into a battle with your herpderp charizard that has 4 fire moves, he's fucking useless. You need sweepers with variety who can potentially set up, walls that can stop a sweep, recover and provide support... etc.

- Items. This is also bigger than you'd think. There are certain items that will boost a pokemon's speed or attack/sp. attack stat but restrict it to using one move. There are items that power up your attacks for the cost of health. There are items that simply restore health. Having the right items is crucial.

- Breeding. This is only important for people who don't play on simulators and refuse to hack competitively viable pokemon into their games (aka. aspies). Each pokemon gets a value between 1-31 added to each of its stats, these are called IVs. Certain IVs are passed down from parent to child pokemon, so in order to "legitimately" create a perfect monster, you also have to breed the fuck out of it, or get really lucky.

There is of course a large amount of strategy within the battle itself. Do you send out your sweeper first? Do you put up a wall? Do you switch into a ghost thinking your opponent is going to use a fighting/normal move... etc.

Like I said. This is the basic explanation. Looks like this kiddie nintendo game blows most games completely out the water for strategic depth.



Btw - if anyone truly thinks this is kiddie shit, I dare you to grind, grind, grind, and right team and try to beat anyone worth their salt.


Edit: Here is a competitive analysis of a pokemon for those who don't want to go searching

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tentacruel

OK you won. I have only played pokemon red, so I don't know shit about next ones.

 

[laclongquan]

I dunno~ Do you ever think we are too elite for these newfangled shits?

I mean, think of all the years we spent on them, and all the various games we played?

I mean, maybe, just maybe we are too good in this shit?

 

[PorkaMorka]

They totally didn't answer the question.

That's unfortunate because I really would like an answer.

In some genres it's understandable, they're trying to make it into something like a movie. Not my cup of tea, but probably better than some television programming.

But what possesses people to make super easy strategy games or tactical RPGs?

When you take away the challenge (and the need to think about your moves), the core gameplay is just clicking on stuff and selecting things from menus. The plot is utterly terrible in comparison to most other commercially produced forms of media. The graphics aren't even impressive.

Without challenge, what is the point?

 

[Genma:TheDestroyer]

Because developers listen to opinions from those who are inept at playing games, and add or take away features and difficulty to make them 'have a better experience'.

Case in point: C&C 4. Interviews before the game had one of the project leads talking about how he'd get so involved in a specific strategy or attack in the previous games that he'd miss someone sneaking into his base and causing havoc. Destroying structures, killing workers, etc. So he put forth the idea that bases shouldn't really matter, and you can recover from anything. He was annoyed at accidentally selling his own structures all the time, so he wanted to remove basic things like being able to salvage your buildings.

Remembering what unit was good against another was too hard, so attacks started getting color coded depending on who they were fired at. Collecting resources was too much busy work, so that got tossed out the window.

A game got mangled because one of the people in charge of making it...couldn't play worth a shit, and probably shouldn't be near an RTS in the first place. But was instead allowed to make something that catered to his ilk.



We all know the stories about the addition of the quest compass into Oblivion because some players never found Caius Cassades in Morrowind. This is what happens when you develop for the brain dead.

 

[BLOBERT]

BROS MOST OF THE FAGGOTS HEAR WHINING ABOUT DIUFFICULTY NEVER PLAYED OLDER GAMES LOLLOLLOOLOL AT NEWFAGS

 

[Pika-Cthulhu]

As has been said, modern gamers are just lazy little cunts. No more needs to be said. Perhaps the modifier 'casual' could be inserted, but its not 100% necessary as a Modern gamer is for all intent and purpose, a casual.

 

[BLOBERT]

TOTALLY TRUE BRO I WAS BORN BEFORE ALOT OPF PEROPLE SO THAT MAKES ME VASTLY SUPERIROR

IF YOU WERE BORN EARLIER WHEN GAMES WE HARDER YOU ARE BY DEFAULT A MUCH STRONGER RESILEITN AND INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEING THE BEST THING ABOUT THGIS IS THAT YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANY THING TO DESERVE IT

GOOD CALL BRO

 

[Johannes]

The video definitely wasn't about difficulty. He does come off as psuedo-intellectual and preachy, but he does raise some valid points.

As for the actual question - I think one of the reasons why games seem easier now is that we've played them for years now.

"The depth can be in a form of choosing a perfect pokemon team" - stopped watching this shit right there

www.smogon.com seriously, pokemon has more depth than 90% of games out there.

If so, then Asian MMO grinders also counts. And WOW then is 99% deeper than other games.
Seriously, it is only grind, grind and grind. And right team? Really? Just grind you pokemon furiously and you will wipe them out.
I admit I played one version (I think it was red) long ago, and I understood it was shit after some while.
It doesn't matter if Nintendo maked it, random encounters were too much.

So. I'm guessing you literally didn't read anything on that site, right?

Here's a bit of a rundown. "Competitive Pokemon" (I know, laugh it up, but listen anyways) is pretty damn strategic minus the occasional critical hit.

All competitive games are played on simulators or over WiFi where all the pokemon are the same level. So no, you cannot just "grind" into competitive. All the high powered legendary pokemon are banned, as are a couple really strong ones. Retarded completely luck based moves like double team, are banned.

What matters is (and this is an extremely stripped down explanation)

- The composition of your team (too much of one weakness will lead to an easy defeat. having too many frail pokemon is bad. having no strong sweepers is hard to win with, etc)

- the EV allocation on your pokemon (pokemon gain effort points based on the enemies they defeat. By selective battling you can train certain stats to be higher. For example, speed and attack for a sweeper pokemon, or HP for a defensive tank.)

- Pokemon Natures, based on the nature of your pokemon it gains 10% more in one stat and loses 10% in another. Important to make the right sacrifice.

- Movesets. This is crucial. If you go into a battle with your herpderp charizard that has 4 fire moves, he's fucking useless. You need sweepers with variety who can potentially set up, walls that can stop a sweep, recover and provide support... etc.

- Items. This is also bigger than you'd think. There are certain items that will boost a pokemon's speed or attack/sp. attack stat but restrict it to using one move. There are items that power up your attacks for the cost of health. There are items that simply restore health. Having the right items is crucial.

- Breeding. This is only important for people who don't play on simulators and refuse to hack competitively viable pokemon into their games (aka. aspies). Each pokemon gets a value between 1-31 added to each of its stats, these are called IVs. Certain IVs are passed down from parent to child pokemon, so in order to "legitimately" create a perfect monster, you also have to breed the fuck out of it, or get really lucky.

There is of course a large amount of strategy within the battle itself. Do you send out your sweeper first? Do you put up a wall? Do you switch into a ghost thinking your opponent is going to use a fighting/normal move... etc.

Like I said. This is the basic explanation. Looks like this kiddie nintendo game blows most games completely out the water for strategic depth.



Btw - if anyone truly thinks this is kiddie shit, I dare you to grind, grind, grind, and right team and try to beat anyone worth their salt.


Edit: Here is a competitive analysis of a pokemon for those who don't want to go searching

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/tentacruel

OK you won. I have only played pokemon red, so I don't know shit about next ones.

No you missed the point. It's not about which pokemon version you use, but just that youre playing multiplayer with a set of rules on how to form your team.

 

[Jaesun]

The 12-year olds of today are stupid fucks who get everything shoved up their ass. Back when we were 12, we had to draw maps of the dungeons on paper, minmax the 200 stats of our characters and, to make the game work at all, learn 500-page OS manuals by heart so we wouldn't fuck up the install.

of youths.

But in all seriousness, the modern (mostly teenage) audience doesn't want to spend any effort on their games, they just want to lay back on their couch and enjoy their gaming "experience". Industry capitalizes on it by creating easy games en masse (which are easier to design than hard games because they require less balancing) and making shitloads of money thusly.

 

[CrimHead]

TOTALLY TRUE BRO I WAS BORN BEFORE ALOT OPF PEROPLE SO THAT MAKES ME VASTLY SUPERIROR

IF YOU WERE BORN EARLIER WHEN GAMES WE HARDER YOU ARE BY DEFAULT A MUCH STRONGER RESILEITN AND INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEING THE BEST THING ABOUT THGIS IS THAT YOU DONT HAVE TO DO ANY THING TO DESERVE IT

GOOD CALL BRO

C'mon BLOBERT. You're better than this.

I was 5 when Daggerfall was released, yet it's one of my favorite games. I was 8 when Planescape Torment came around, and it's pretty much the best thing that ever happened to me. I played both of these only a couple years ago. The excuse that "oh you were born in a bad decade so it's ok to like this shit" is stupid. Would you make excuses for a friend who loved Lady Gaga and hated The Beatles? I don't think you would. I think you'd feel sorry for him.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

The 12-year olds of today are stupid fucks who get everything shoved up their ass. Back when we were 12, we had to draw maps of the dungeons on paper, minmax the 200 stats of our characters and, to make the game work at all, learn 500-page OS manuals by heart so we wouldn't fuck up the install.

of youths.

But in all seriousness, the modern (mostly teenage) audience doesn't want to spend any effort on their games, they just want to lay back on their couch and enjoy their gaming "experience". Industry capitalizes on it by creating easy games en masse (which are easier to design than hard games because they require less balancing) and making shitloads of money thusly.

That's why kids should be poor and should repay for kindness of their hard-working parents by doing house chores and learning well.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

^^There's also the increased availability of games - I find myself unwilling to spend too much time on a difficult part of a game. Why bother, if there are a zillion other games at my fingertips? When I had a limited choice, I had to focus on that single game. Which probably explains why most games are easier now - they don't have to last. On the plus side, it also means they don't have to resort to cheap shit so you won't beat it too fast.

"The depth can be in a form of choosing a perfect pokemon team" - stopped watching this shit right there

Considering competitive players (rather, anyone that wants to stand a chance against powergamers) use more or less the same teams and moves, the depth is more about "who will be the first to learn the latest imba combos discovered by the community?"

OK you won. I have only played pokemon red, so I don't know shit about next ones.

The thing is you played the single player mode, which is beatable by retarded chimpanzees as long as they have functioning thumbs, no matter which version of the game it is. The game is really about multiplayer.

 

[Achilles]

I find myself unwilling to spend too much time on a difficult part of a game. Why bother, if there are a zillion other games at my fingertips?

Because you enjoy playing the game and overcoming the challenges it throws at you? Saying "fuck this shit, I'm playing another game" every time you get a bit stuck seems very strange to me. Is it possible you're not really enjoying the game you're playing and you're just looking for an excuse to quit?

 

[20 Eyes]

As far as console games go, I think Demon's Souls had a great difficulty level. Even the weaker monsters will wreck you if you make stupid mistakes. You can't just save and then try to pass each individual challenge in the level, reloading when you screw up. It's one of the few games that makes a real attempt to reward good play and punish you for errors.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I find myself unwilling to spend too much time on a difficult part of a game. Why bother, if there are a zillion other games at my fingertips?

Because you enjoy playing the game and overcoming the challenges it throws at you? Saying "fuck this shit, I'm playing another game" every time you get a bit stuck seems very strange to me. Is it possible you're not really enjoying the game you're playing and you're just looking for an excuse to quit?

Some challenge is cool, but if you reach a particularly hard part that you can't get past, you're gonna be tempted to try one of those other games that are waiting in that pile, if only to pass the time with something easier until you can tackle that previous challenge. Only you have such a huge catalogue available that it takes some willpower to go back to that previous game - after all, you already started playing something else! You can't just stop playing something halfway thr- FUCK

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO CRIMHEAD SOME PEOPLE JUST ARENT INTO GAMES AS MUCH AND WILL IKELY PLAY WHATEVBER SHIT IS POPULAR

IT TAKES EFFORT TO DELVE INTOP OLDER CLASSICS ESPECIALLUY WHEN THE GAME STYLE AND WHAT NOT IS COMPLETELY FOREIGN

BRO REMEMBER THE BRAINY GAMER GUYS ARTICLE ABOUT ULTIMA 4 I SUPPOSE YOU CAN ASSUME THE ENTIRE WORLD IS BEOMING DUMBER EACH AND EVERY GENERATIOIN BUT I WOULD SAY THERE IS A COMPONENT THAT THEY ARE USED TO A CERTAIN STLYE OF GAMING AND DONT GIVE A SHIT ENOUGH TO EXPAND THEIR HORIZONS

BROS IT WAS ALWAYS LIKE THIS SOME NERDS WERE REALLY INTO RPGS AND OTHER PEOPLE JUST LIKED TO JUMP AROUND IN SUPER MARIO

 

[Crooked Bee]

*awesum Pokemon snip*

As to the games being easy... well, play some Nintendo DS jRPGs, such as Strange Journey or Etrian Odyssey. I wouldn't say they're much easier than "the older classics".

 

[RottingNaziSurfer]

BROS IT WAS ALWAYS LIKE THIS SOME NERDS WERE REALLY INTO RPGS AND OTHER PEOPLE JUST LIKED TO JUMP AROUND IN SUPER MARIO

 

[deuxhero]

"The depth can be in a form of choosing a perfect pokemon team" - stopped watching this shit right there

www.smogon.com seriously, pokemon has more depth than 90% of games out there.

Smogon's position is that there can not, and shouldn't be, a "perfect" team as the game would suck if one existed (see:Gen 1 psychics, pre-Garchomp ban gen 4, and even they weren't "perfect"), so it is still stupid.


Now, Pokemon Online, Gen 4 OU. When can you fight?

 

[Data4]

MS Paint to the rescue.

 

[Phage]

^^There's also the increased availability of games - I find myself unwilling to spend too much time on a difficult part of a game. Why bother, if there are a zillion other games at my fingertips? When I had a limited choice, I had to focus on that single game. Which probably explains why most games are easier now - they don't have to last. On the plus side, it also means they don't have to resort to cheap shit so you won't beat it too fast.

"The depth can be in a form of choosing a perfect pokemon team" - stopped watching this shit right there

Considering competitive players (rather, anyone that wants to stand a chance against powergamers) use more or less the same teams and moves, the depth is more about "who will be the first to learn the latest imba combos discovered by the community?"

OK you won. I have only played pokemon red, so I don't know shit about next ones.

The thing is you played the single player mode, which is beatable by retarded chimpanzees as long as they have functioning thumbs, no matter which version of the game it is. The game is really about multiplayer.

Competitive players don't really use the same teams (that would be pretty easy to counter if everyone used the same couple teams..) They mostly use six pokemon from this list though:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/ou

every now and then someone figures out how to make certain lesser used pokemon work well though.

 

[deuxhero]

^^There's also the increased availability of games - I find myself unwilling to spend too much time on a difficult part of a game. Why bother, if there are a zillion other games at my fingertips? When I had a limited choice, I had to focus on that single game. Which probably explains why most games are easier now - they don't have to last. On the plus side, it also means they don't have to resort to cheap shit so you won't beat it too fast.

"The depth can be in a form of choosing a perfect pokemon team" - stopped watching this shit right there

Considering competitive players (rather, anyone that wants to stand a chance against powergamers) use more or less the same teams and moves, the depth is more about "who will be the first to learn the latest imba combos discovered by the community?"

OK you won. I have only played pokemon red, so I don't know shit about next ones.

The thing is you played the single player mode, which is beatable by retarded chimpanzees as long as they have functioning thumbs, no matter which version of the game it is. The game is really about multiplayer.

Competitive players don't really use the same teams (that would be pretty easy to counter if everyone used the same couple teams..) They mostly use six pokemon from this list though:

http://www.smogon.com/dp/tiers/ou

every now and then someone figures out how to make certain lesser used pokemon work well though.

Or takes advantage of people having no idea what they can/will do and don't have dedicated counters.

Also, I think monkies may lose at Stadium 1/2, but only because the AI cheats like hell.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

Because developers listen to opinions from those who are inept at playing games, and add or take away features and difficulty to make them 'have a better experience'.

Case in point: C&C 4. Interviews before the game had one of the project leads talking about how he'd get so involved in a specific strategy or attack in the previous games that he'd miss someone sneaking into his base and causing havoc. Destroying structures, killing workers, etc. So he put forth the idea that bases shouldn't really matter, and you can recover from anything. He was annoyed at accidentally selling his own structures all the time, so he wanted to remove basic things like being able to salvage your buildings.

Remembering what unit was good against another was too hard, so attacks started getting color coded depending on who they were fired at. Collecting resources was too much busy work, so that got tossed out the window.

A game got mangled because one of the people in charge of making it...couldn't play worth a shit, and probably shouldn't be near an RTS in the first place. But was instead allowed to make something that catered to his ilk.

Holy fuck. Link pls?