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Why is Gothic series so culty?

Piotrovitz

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Dec 21, 2017
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Shitty writing? You didn't play them in German, I assume. The writing is very good. Naturalistic.
Played it both in Polish and English - dialogues are so simple and bare bones, that I don't think it's a matter of losing something in translation.

It just crappy and cringy - I felt this way even when I played it for the first time as a youngster.
Beside the original setting in G1 (penal colony), the story/writing/quests in both games are something that we could pull off in our PnP Warhammer sessions as a teenagers.
Even the NPCs names are cringy as fuck.

GO TO EACH LOCATION MARKED ON MAP AND DEFEAT FIVE DRAGONS BOSSES - FIRE ONE, ICE ONE, SWAMP ONE etc. Seriously, this shit is like taken from legend of zelda or something.
 

Blutwurstritter

Learned
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Germany
Shitty writing? You didn't play them in German, I assume. The writing is very good. Naturalistic.
Played it both in Polish and English - dialogues are so simple and bare bones, that I don't think it's a matter of losing something in translation.

It just crappy and cringy - I felt this way even when I played it for the first time as a youngster.
Beside the original setting in G1 (penal colony), the story/writing/quests in both games are something that we could pull off in our PnP Warhammer sessions as a teenagers.
Even the NPCs names are cringy as fuck.

GO TO EACH LOCATION MARKED ON MAP AND DEFEAT FIVE DRAGONS BOSSES - FIRE ONE, ICE ONE, SWAMP ONE etc. Seriously, this shit is like taken from legend of zelda or something.
A Pollack that doesn't like Gothic. Now I have seen everything. Now if you tell me that you also hate the HoMM games I will get my local taxidermist ready to secure you for future generations.
 

yellowcake

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Dec 11, 2007
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Alas! in my skull
What's with people whining about gothic controls? I played it back then and also some time later and remember you could get standard mouselook controls with a bit of configuration. I also used gothic 1 control scheme in G2 because it seemed natural.
 

Piotrovitz

Savant
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A Pollack that doesn't like Gothic. Now I have seen everything. Now if you tell me that you also hate the HoMM games I will get my local taxidermist ready to secure you for future generations.
Haha, touche.

HoMM aside, but someone should study this sociological phenomenon of ruskies and pollacks worship of PB games.

Like Rusty mentioned, G1/G2 are barely RPGs, more like action-adventure TPP games with some bare bones RPG mechanics (levelling up, picking up quests etc) slapped on top. Kinda like this Estonian point&click adventure adventure game that tries to disguise itself as RPG because it also has stats and quests.
 

1451

Seeker
In My Safe Space
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Messages
1,369
You could cheese the undead dragon by hurling spells from a distance, its ai would not enable and you could kill it easily.
Despite this, the fight is far better than anything skyrim has to offer.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
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4,807
Played it both in Polish and English - dialogues are so simple and bare bones, that I don't think it's a matter of losing something in translation.
I think that's the reason why they are so liked: they are snappy. Like Jasede said, it makes them feel more natural, especially in dialogue form.
 

Piotrovitz

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There isn't anything snappy nor natural about them - they're just lazily written in the simplest manner, just to convey you information about the next quest/whatever.
Dialogue trees are non-existent, you cannot fuck up some quest by choosing wrong answer, you can just exhaust every option so you can get/resolve quest or push story forward.

Voice acting is adding some life, but even with that, it doesn't enrich NPCs characters nor make them distinctive - everyone you talk to feels more or less the same, like a cardboard cutout.
 
Joined
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Codex Year of the Donut
There isn't anything snappy nor natural about them - they're just lazily written in the simplest manner, just to convey you information about the next quest/whatever.
Dialogue trees are non-existent, you cannot fuck up some quest by choosing wrong answer, you can just exhaust every option so you can get/resolve quest or push story forward.

Voice acting is adding some life, but even with that, it doesn't enrich NPCs characters nor make them distinctive - everyone you talk to feels more or less the same, like a cardboard cutout.
No point in arguing with the cultists, they're been brainwashed to accept a mediocre action game as one of the best RPGs ever made despite it barely even qualifying as an RPG.
 

Harthwain

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There isn't anything snappy nor natural about them - they're just lazily written in the simplest manner, just to convey you information about the next quest/whatever.
Conveying information to the player in the simplest manner possible is exactly what makes these dialogues better! They are snappy, because they are short, relevant exchanges between characters. They are natural, because what they say sounds like something a regular person would've said. There are very few games where I felt the dialogue flowing as smoothly.
 

Humanophage

Arcane
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Dec 20, 2005
Messages
5,068
Aside from stuff mentioned countless times (tank controls, clunky combat etc) that you can get used to, my biggest gripe with G1/G2 is shitty writing, no C&Cs (just please don't pull out factions), rudimentary dialogue trees (1. Ok, give me the quest. 2. K, thx, bye), lots of backtracking, which combined with slow running speed requires you to pick up Acrobatics in G1 asap, so for the rest of the game you can travel through the gameworld like a fucking human torpedo. Also - no replay value, everything is railroaded, plus there are no char builds other than melee and mage. Once you get the melee skill to 2nd tier to swing faster, levelling up boils down to pumping STR for the rest of the game, just to dish out more dmg and being able to wield better weapons that also dish out more dmg. Awesome char customization.

Too many 30+ yo people have played both games upon release and are looking back at them through nostalgia glasses.
Sure, they were fun back then, especially that it was the beginning of the cRPG dark ages, but let's be honest, they did not stand the test of time.
I saw "backtracking" as a good thing. It creates a sense of realism and density rather than one random location after another. It also creates a sense of dynamism because you notice how locations change over time, and it helps emphasise the consequences of your actions when you can see the same location, but with relationships transformed by what you did. It is not hard to make a ton of random empty large locations.
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2023
Messages
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Backtracking is a consequence of game design, if your game is badly designed then it becomes tedious, no matter the purpose or the length of said backtracking. We already backtrack in our daily lives and while it's not pleasant we do it because there's no other way. What we can do however is optimize.

So basically you have to go to the kitchen just to make some tea and then get back to your computer. Now this is tedious but if you start optimizing along the way, i.e returning to your room with a cup of tea and the vacuum cleaner so you can clean the room later. You already eliminated another backtracking.

What I'm trying to say is that Gothic handles the backtracking well if you understand your current goals: getting better gear, bring that package here and talk to another npc that's rumored to be in the same place.. The player planning skills are put to the test in a way he's in control of his time and actions within the game and by extension in real life.

Because we all know how tedious it can be to run from the old camp to the swamp camp and back again. So in the early stages, the nameless one has to be consistent with his goals to avoid running like a headless chicken. Gothic asks you to use your brain instead of turning it off while you play and that's the real difference between good design and cringe inducing backtracking. Gothic never insult your intelligence as a player.
 

Humanophage

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Dec 20, 2005
Messages
5,068
I saw "backtracking" as a good thing.
These people are completely brainwashed.

Are there still people who doubt my theory about the german government operation?
It's probably the colonial trauma speaking in you. Whites in North America do not have a sense of place. Their psyche tells them to stay mobile and flee when things get sour. "Philly fell to blacks, why defend it, just move to Chicago. Chicago fell to blacks, why defend it, just move to LA. LA fell to mestizos, why defend it, just flee to Texas. Texas fell to mestizos, why defend it, just flee to Oregon." And so on. Meanwhile, whites in Europe stand their ground till the bitter end and would not even surrender locations when they were stolen decades ago by a fairly similar people, as in Kosovo or Constantinople.

To the whites in Europe, locations have a sacred meaning, including nature. The history of a place is their history as a people - in fact, even more ancient and primordial. This is the forest where Arminius led the pre-Germans to fight Caesar. These are the mountains where Thor fought the giants or where Dacians made blood sacrifice. When our ancestors spoke of dryads or rusalkas, these are the rivers and groves where they lived. These dense woods and swamps saved us from the Mongols. This can get very particular down to the specific cellar.

But to whites in America, not even cities matter. Location to them is generic, defined not by its cultural meaning, but by its abstract physical traits, like for a tourist in Africa. Look at this very huge red canyon! Wow, what a large gorgeous waterfall! That's a really old unique big tree! It has an appeal to an "outdoorsy" person or some kind of a global hippie tree hugger, but it is largely bereft of its völkish meaning. The forest in America is more of a reverse of it, since it is Indian and it is the abode of alien spirits, culturally speaking. At most, it has a connection with southern identity, the Civil War, and the Puritans, but it does not stretch out far into the truly mythological or even medieval. The US white cannot say earnestly, my biological ancestors lived in this location 2000 years ago, and you will never take this land away from me, alien POC filth. When a white from America feels a connection with the land, it is often in Europe. He goes to Scotland and he understands it, for example, in a typical Lovecraft fashion. But in America, locations are basically generic and when they are not, they are long since discarded and not liked (like NYC).

This lack of appreciation for temporal depth in a location makes US whites less capable of appreciating Gothic, and makes them partial to big empty open world games where location has no real meaning.

(Or it could be something about piracy and consoles, idk)
 
Last edited:

Piotrovitz

Savant
Joined
Dec 21, 2017
Messages
805
Location
Paris, Texas
Backtracking is a consequence of game design, if your game is badly designed then it becomes tedious, no matter the purpose or the length of said backtracking. We already backtrack in our daily lives and while it's not pleasant we do it because there's no other way. What we can do however is optimize.
Backtracking is not the problem, it's unavoidable in most of RGPs, it's the slow as fuck running speed, combined with no means of fast travel, that prolongs the game by dozens of hours spent only on running back and forth. Unless you'll take acrobatics, which turns the game into circus where you're flying around the map like a fucking torpedo.

It baffles me that neckbeard connoisseurs here complains about the decline in quest design in modern cRPGs, but when it comes to this holy turd, all of sudden quests like 'go pick up 10 rice plants' or 'go and talk to 10 dudes and give them joints' or 'kill red dragon, blue dragon, green dragon and undead dragon' are totally fine.
 

OSK

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These dense woods and swamps saved us from the Mongols.

Hy3Ocsh.jpg


"Please, take these offerings of woods and swamps."
 
Joined
Jan 27, 2023
Messages
57
If you complain about time consuming traveling in gothic then it's not for you, simple. Unlike Arcanum and fallout which both have fast travel because they take place on a bigger scale, gothic games don't and favor a much more immersive experience.

Gothic I is confined within the barrier, Gothic 2 takes place on an island. Only does Gothic 3 "world" include 3 countries, it's a huge map but you can find teleportation stones in every town at the start if you explore a bit. Exploration is worth it and rewarded because the map has been handcrafted. You don't get a generic Dagerfall like generic landscape: you see castle ruins on top of a cliff, you have a huge waterfall.. Both unique locations so as for the player to make his own landmarks and plan his exploration.

So yes the player has to run back and forth. It's not for you but don't try to justify yourself by taking it on a level design that doesn't appeal to you personally.
 

Harthwain

Magister
Joined
Dec 13, 2019
Messages
4,807
It baffles me that neckbeard connoisseurs here complains about the decline in quest design in modern cRPGs, but when it comes to this holy turd, all of sudden quests like 'go pick up 10 rice plants' or 'go and talk to 10 dudes and give them joints' or 'kill red dragon, blue dragon, green dragon and undead dragon' are totally fine.
One guy in the whole thread praised quests. One.
 

Jasede

Arcane
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Messages
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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Autism as charged, but filling up my quest log and then thinking of the most efficient route to do as many of them as possible with the least amount of walking has got to be one of my favorite RPG activities.

Also, while nobody is going to praise the quests, they are a result of the setting. Of course they're going to give a nobody the most shit, repetitive or boring jobs. That's so you can feel a real sense of achievement as you rise in standing and get more intricate, involved tasks later on. Isn't this normal in RPGs?
 

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