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X3: Terran Conflict Opinons on the game?

WalterKinde

Scholar
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
524
So Egosoft final chapter of the X series is now available finally in the americas for legit purchase,discovered this by browsing via Amazon.
Anyway the ratings are not good , one person claimed it has the horrendous TAGES drm and checking the Egosoft forums that has been confirmed in the FAQ section along with a "we may never release a patch to remove the drm" message and of course not ask about nocd/dvd cracks or mounting images etc.

So from a technical stand point its not looking good but perhaps maybe the gameplay is good enough that i might try for an ebay copy etc. or just wait like i did for X2, and X3 reunion to get their drm removal patches.
I been hooked on games that try sometimes successfully to emulate elite, elite 2 and frontier : first encounters, braben seems to have completely abandoned the genre.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
From a technical standpoint it actually looks good:

yhwdk.jpg


The controls are also awesome, the most comfortable controls you'll ever encounter in a space sim, especially if you use mouse-flight.
That station btw, just like all other terran stations, is really gigantic, something spacesims always miss. Your ship is like one pixel on that screenshot compared to a station - thus I like the design.
New terran sectors are also atmospheric, sun shining behind the huge mass of Jupiter looks awesome.

From a gameplay standpoint - it's like starting an X game all over again - that kinda tells you everything.
Well you also have a different storyline for each race now, but that doesn't save you from the aforementioned boredom of doing it all over again for which time?

Basically get this if you want more of the same and wish to start all over (or alternatively just use some cheating software to get moneys). I can't really call this one more than a yet another mod for X game.
 

NiM82

Prophet
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
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Kolechia
It's just like all the other X games, lot's of nice ideas, shitloads of complexity, but an utterly fail end result. They actually seem to be getting worse from a gameplay perspective, though the pure mouse interface is a godsend compared to X2/X3s monstrosity. The problem is the game just isn't fun, at all. The only way to make it fun is to cheat, give your ship a shitload of boost extensions and some credits to buy a fighter and go Xenon hunting, which even then gets boring after an hour or so. Even with a fully tricked out recon ship, it takes hours to get anywhere.

Time compression is still a ship component and not an IRL time saver (which is fucking retarded), so whilst it's enabled you can't do shit but watch your woeful AI pilot slam into things. You seem to spend more time doing this than in the earlier games, it's like they scaled everything up including sector size. Never have I played a game where you spend so much time doing nothing, yet rape your GPU. Wouldn't be so bad if you could trust the AI, you could read a book, but the devs seems oblivious to the AI issue. The MASSIVE spacestations Skyway mentions don't seem to help here at all, the AI just can't navigate around/within the structures, watching them trying to dock is painful. If you build a megacomplex you can make sectors completely impassable for the AI.

The management/trading interface still isn't up to the task of running a trading empire. It needs a full blown windowing system, with automation for managing fleet lists, equipment, etc. Having to micro every little fucking thing your fleet of 30+ traders does ends up consuming all your time, esp when you have to deal with constant ship losses due to the AI slamming them into things. Documentation is also wank, half the time stuff doesn't do what it's ordered to, only for you to find you need a specific software combination installed (from reading the forums).

Ultimately, If your prepared to cheat and happy just to fuck around in a pretty looking sandbox, listening to new age tunes, playing with ship mods and stuff. I guess it's an ok time waster. But you'd have to pay me a huge wage IRL to even contemplate trying to play it properly again.
 

JrK

Prophet
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Oct 2, 2006
Messages
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Speaking to the Sea
NiM82 said:
It's just like all the other X games, lot's of nice ideas, shitloads of complexity, but an utterly fail end result. They actually seem to be getting worse from a gameplay perspective, though the pure mouse interface is a godsend compared to X2/X3s monstrosity. The problem is the game just isn't fun, at all. The only way to make it fun is to cheat, give your ship a shitload of boost extensions and some credits to buy a fighter and go Xenon hunting, which even then gets boring after an hour or so. Even with a fully tricked out recon ship, it takes hours to get anywhere.

Ultimately, If your prepared to cheat and happy just to fuck around in a pretty looking sandbox, listening to new age tunes, playing with ship mods and stuff. I guess it's an ok time waster. But you'd have to pay me a huge wage IRL to even contemplate trying to play it properly again.

Holy shite, epitome of misleading right here. It's obvious from this post you didn't have the balls to bite down and defeat everything the game throws at you but you've posted some things that just aren't put in the right perspective. Let's take out some quotations:

"Even with a fully tricked out recon ship, it takes hours to get anywhere."
- Buy a jumpdrive. Preferably: fly a kestrel and jump using a TM. EDIT: of course do this outside of Terran sectors: those suck anyway and are way too big, nothing to get there.

"Time compression is still a ship component and not an IRL time saver (which is fucking retarded), so whilst it's enabled you can't do shit but watch your woeful AI pilot slam into things."
- What the fuck? Of course it's a component, but it's also a time saver. The whole point is that you activate it when you've got nothing else to do (like, for instance, managing a trade empire). Also, of course the autopilot sucks, don't ever use it. For some reason the AP sucks for the player ship but is passable for every other ship (never seen them crash while my ship on AP crashes all the time).

"The MASSIVE spacestations Skyway mentions don't seem to help here at all, the AI just can't navigate around/within the structures, watching them trying to dock is painful."
- the massive stations are only found in the Terran sectors. Everywhere else there's more respect for the AI. Honestly, while the AI does have problems circumnavigating large objects it doesn't seem that much of a problem for two reasons:
- If you are in sector (IS) then they try to circumnavigate certain large objects with a wide margin of space. This would have been a problem if there weren't many sectors without such large objects. Only in densely packed asteroid fields or in the dreaded Aldrin system will you encounter this pain. Ofcourse, the solution is:
- Out of sector (OOS) AI has collision detection turned off for all ships and stations meaning that everything the AI does OOS will not run the risk of dying or being inefficient due to crashing or avoidance of objects.

"Having to micro every little fucking thing your fleet of 30+ traders does ends up consuming all your time, esp when you have to deal with constant ship losses due to the AI slamming them into things. Documentation is also wank, half the time stuff doesn't do what it's ordered to, only for you to find you need a specific software combination installed (from reading the forums)."
- You wouldn't have to micromanage a fleet of 30 traders if you would have bothered to read up on things and buy and install Trade Software MK3 and put on Universe Trader. It's a massive overexaggeration to state that the AI is slamming into things all the time because as stated above most traders will be doing their stuff OOS. I can't say the manual was super helpful but I consider getting to know what does what part of the game. This game is complex, if you can't deal with it, go away and don't whine.

I'll add I've already sunk about 5 days worth of playing time (that's 120 hours) into this game, creating small fleets and whatnot. The thing is, there's plenty of stuff to do, from managing your fleet so it gets supplied, buying/stealing ships and equipping them, trading with or without automated traders, doing all sorts of trade/combat/build/info missions, doing plot missions and exploring the universe. There are plenty of choices to make as to what to do and everything will not be easy, especially in the beginning. Yes, Xenon squadrons will kick your ass if you are flying a M5 or even a M3. So think: use missiles or buy a bigger boat. If you are stuck, then the egosoft forums are a massive aid. I'd like to think that they have one of the best communities there I've ever seen.

But a fair bit of warning is in order: if you want to play this game for the story or the railroaded well designed missions, go elsewhere. If there is one thing this game is bad at, it is having a decent plot and well designed missions to get you there. This game is a sandbox player's wet dream, and there sure is plenty to do inside it. But if you find it hard to set goals for yourself and creating ideas what to do, then it's best to skip this game.

Finally as far as I've read this game is indeed very similar to X2/X3:R. But the entire community seems to agree that if you want to get into the X games, get X3TC and ignore the others. It seems X3TC is the best yet and improves on the others in every way.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
racofer said:
Holy crap, that station is a direct HL2 Citadel ripoff.
Except the combine could never think of anything as awesome as putting the citadel in orbit around Saturn! X3TC>HL2
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
I rather like the series, but it's definitely got issues. My main one is how it sort of lacks endgame content; you spend all your time building up your trading empire( or, in the new game, just do combat missions for ridiculous amounts of credits ), and then buy a huge fleet...only to find that there's really nothing to do with it, not to mention the combat AI is so poor that if you actually put the fleet into a fight your ships are only going to get themselves killed. Easier just to get a single well-equipped huge ship and take on everything yourself.

With better AI/pathfinding, Elite-style flight/physics system and a bigger story where you could actually use your hard-earned fleet(s), the game would have been awesome. As it is, it falls short by a wide margin. Too bad it's basically the only game of this type left.
 

NiM82

Prophet
Joined
Jun 21, 2007
Messages
1,358
Location
Kolechia
@ JrK

Butthurt detected. My last comment about cheating was simply advice regarding the best way derive some FUN from the "game", not a reference to how I played it. I got to the stage where I had three big factory loops and had put in a couple of weeks worth of playtime, hoping something wonderful would happen - it didn't. The third complex was what made me see reason and quit, every AI ship that attempted to navigate the sector, crashed into the complex, I was floating next to the station, AFK, SETA on, waiting for enough funds to procure a new fleet. So, care to enlighten me as to what part of the game I failed to get my teeth into? I didn't think it got much deeper than profitable factory loops, mining operations and fleet combat...

Buy a Jumpdrive!
I take it you used a cheat to buy one at the start then? Or did I miss the friendly start up option that gave you a jump drive equipped vessel and a shitload of energy cells? It took me a good many hours of dull grinding and tedious milk runs to get one, during which time the flawed time compression system and stupidly slow transit speeds became mightily apparent.

The whole point is that you activate it when you've got nothing else to do
My whole point was that the entire game is far too fucking slow, it's like they slowed everything down on purpose, then a bit more just to waste everyones time. I wanted to speed up the entire game, pretty much constantly. The fucktarded time accel, that only a german could've thought of, doesn't enable you to do this. It's better than nothing, yes, but that isn't saying much.

the massive stations are only found in the Terran sectors
That may be true, but even the big, standard, X3 stations caused all kinds of pathing problems, a problem they didn't bother to address in TC and compounded with the Terran Stations (which I guess you can buy and deploy anywhere, I never bought Terran). The AI doesn't seem to have advanced since X2, which had modestly sized stations for a reason. But hey big huge stations make for pretty screenshots, and pretty sells! Trying to lead a flying wing near any form of structure (or big ship) is hilarious.

Out of sector (OOS) AI has collision detection turned off for all ships and stations meaning that everything the AI does OOS will not run the risk of dying or being efficient due to crashing
How nice, instead of addressing a problem that's plagued the series since it's inception they brushed it under the carpet, how very progressive! I didn't actually know it stopped ship vs stations, but I'm sure there's a flaw or something because I lost a good number of ships in highly secure sectors due to no, apparent, hostile action. The one thing in common was the systems were cluttered (roids/fabs).

You wouldn't have to micromanage a fleet of 30 traders if you would have bothered to read up on things and buy and install Trade Software MK
:sigh: The universe trader is pretty much a cop out option for dumbfucks who can't get to grips with making profitable factory loops and manually establishing supply chains (or people starting out, which is fair enough). Regardless, they still need a good amount of watching over to make sure they aren't being stupid. There are user scripts that improve this, but it's still a royal pain in the ass. You also still have to outfit every ship manually, you can't just order a batch with a particular setup from a NPC station, or at least I didn't see a way too - dare say someone has made a custom script by now.

I can't say the manual was super helpful but I consider getting to know what does what part of the game.
I agree totally! But I draw a line at having to trawl the internet for a good thirty minutes, reading multiple threads to find what something does (if anything), if it even works, or if it's bugged. It doesn't help that half the new content shipped with TC was community made and as such not well documented by Egosoft, if at all. Example: What the fuck is the point of the "Mobile Mining Base-Ship" it offers no discernable difference to a bog standard Mammoth transporter, so why the deceptive name?

X2 imo is the best in the series, even if the graphics are a bit fugly, it's just a shame it's got the worst interface imaginable. The combat was better (big ships blew apart and left debris), The AI navigation wasn't anywhere near as big an issue, etc.
 
Joined
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Location
Gritville
X3:TC is a fun little game to toy around with, but there's too much fucking grinding in it.

Wanna buy Terran ships? Sure, sure, just set up huge complexes and wait for a week and then your rep may allow you to buy a corvette. I just sat in a station constantly buying and selling the same items over and over again to gai nthat rep when i played the game last, and when i had 1% left the station blows up with me inside it which equals a game over. "What the fuck happened?" was my direct reaction. I reload the last autosave (from three hours ago) and it seems like a Terran destroyer got caught on the fucking MASSIVE Terran station. The destroyer had a greater shield recharge rate than the station to it basically rammed it to death... over... and over...

Want to set up stations? Sure, sure... Would you like a self sufficient complex to fit out your armada with or just a simple station? Either way you've got to wait a fucking long time to see any income from them, and the "self sufficient" station must be fed with a shitload of resources and balanced out perfectly before it can actually be self sufficient. Takes a long, long... long... time.

Want a capital ship? Got rep? Got stations to bring in the green? No? THEN YOU'RE FUCKED, SUCKER! HAHAHAHA!

If you dislike mmo's then stay the heck away from X3:TC.
 

WalterKinde

Scholar
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
524
Its surprising after all the updates/patches for X3:TC and two previous games egosoft hasnt gotten X3:TC correct yet.
I was hoping for more to be happening after the end of the main storyline but apparently once again as with X2 and X3:R nothing is.
Still i will give it a go its now on my official list to buy if it pops up somewhere cheap, even with TAGES, AI pathfinding problems and the other bugs.
Also great that its now 100% mouse interface/control.
 

Volrath

Arcane
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Joined
May 21, 2007
Messages
4,299
Raapys said:
I rather like the series, but it's definitely got issues. My main one is how it sort of lacks endgame content; you spend all your time building up your trading empire( or, in the new game, just do combat missions for ridiculous amounts of credits ), and then buy a huge fleet...only to find that there's really nothing to do with it, not to mention the combat AI is so poor that if you actually put the fleet into a fight your ships are only going to get themselves killed. Easier just to get a single well-equipped huge ship and take on everything yourself.

With better AI/pathfinding, Elite-style flight/physics system and a bigger story where you could actually use your hard-earned fleet(s), the game would have been awesome. As it is, it falls short by a wide margin. Too bad it's basically the only game of this type left.
Reunion had a shit load of mods that made the universe more active, like taking over enemy sectors, etc...
 

DefJam101

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Nov 11, 2007
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Cybernegro HQ
I always tell the main quest to go fuck itself and become a pirate.

Use some quickstart mods, grab a sector (preferably a liberated Xenon sector), set up an HQ and go from there. It can be fun, but you really need to skip by the boring-as-fuck first 100 hours where you do nothing but watch your credit account tick upward. :?
 

racofer

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DefJam101 said:
I always tell the main quest to go fuck itself and become a pirate.

Use some quickstart mods, grab a sector (preferably a liberated Xenon sector), set up an HQ and go from there. It can be fun, but you really need to skip by the boring-as-fuck first 100 hours where you do nothing but watch your credit account tick upward. :?

A cybernegro HQ, right?
 

DefJam101

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racofer said:
DefJam101 said:
I always tell the main quest to go fuck itself and become a pirate.

Use some quickstart mods, grab a sector (preferably a liberated Xenon sector), set up an HQ and go from there. It can be fun, but you really need to skip by the boring-as-fuck first 100 hours where you do nothing but watch your credit account tick upward. :?

A cybernegro HQ, right?

I remember a mod (back when X3 was first released) that involved boarding action. You could send over parties of soldiers to try and capture the bridge of the enemy ship (like the Commandos units in Nexus: TJI). The top upgraded soldiers, again like in Nexus, were cybernetically-enhanced shock troops.

So, yeah. We'd sell space weed from here to Argon Prime. :cool:
 
Joined
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Egosoft actually invited the people who made the x-tended mod for X3 to join them in developing X3:TC, hence why so many of the ships in that mod is in the game now. (Along with corporations and such.)

Seems like a smart move to me since they vastly improved the game with that mod. Hopefully they'll be full employees by the time of the next game, though that would mean nothing if they were restricted to doing the same banal stuff Egosoft churned out since X2.
 

racofer

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Nexus is great. Too bad it was kinda short and had some serious game breaking bugs. I remember that mission where you had to approach a ship undetected, and it would instantly fail the mission whenever it started. No solution was available for that back when I played it, even though it was an acknowledged bug.

By the way, is there any other game that resembles nexus's play style? That is, one big ship, where you control it's subsystems and give attack orders but don't manually fire the weapons, sort of a in between Homeworld and X3. I always liked this sort of thing but so few games actually ventured into it.
 

NiM82

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Kolechia
racofer said:
By the way, is there any other game that resembles nexus's play style? That is, one big ship, where you control it's subsystems and give attack orders but don't manually fire the weapons, sort of a in between Homeworld and X3. I always liked this sort of thing but so few games actually ventured into it.

The closest I've seen is the space battle element from Sword of the Stars.
 

aron searle

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Nov 27, 2007
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United Kingdom (of retardation)
I was going to write a long reply as the the flaws in X, but ill sum it up thus.

There is a xexon sector in the middle of a trade route, the xenons are hostile and kill anyone going through (they have capital ships, many fighters, and they respawn even if you kill them).

Do the traders go around this sector?

Fuck no, watch the map and you'll see a constant flow of traders trying going through the sector and getting killed instead of going around it. If you put a station near that sector, your own traders will try and go through the sector to a station on the other side for supplies, and there is no option to stop them going through a sector, only to limit how many sectors they can go through.


This kind of stupid, irritating crap, that could easilly be fixed with a simple command infests the X games.
 

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