Your favorite PnP RPG system?

[Alex]

1st edition, Jasede?

 

[JrK]

Pathfinder. With my additional houserules.

 

[MicoSelva]

Bawww I must have total control of character creation because otherwise it's not deep

Anyway, I like WHFRP, because we have had some of the closest battles and most brutal campaigns in that one - brutal as in I had to replace both of my hands with rusty hooks as I am poor, now how am I going to catch those rats, guess I should change careers. And I like random character creation, we have done too much of that allocating points shit in the past and it got stale. Guess we're not sane

Some randomness during character creation is a good thing. Otherwise, everyone end up playing a bunch of clones, based on optimal builds. But WFRP can be too excessive in randomness. I can understand that random starting class can be appealing to some people, but if someone wants to play a bow-wielding hunter, he shouldn't really be forced to start as a corpse stealer.

 

[Alex]

Pathfinder. With my additional houserules.

Since Freelance Henchman is looking for ideas for his game, I think it would be nice if you could mention what house rules you use and why (besides I am interested as well myself).

Bawww I must have total control of character creation because otherwise it's not deep

Anyway, I like WHFRP, because we have had some of the closest battles and most brutal campaigns in that one - brutal as in I had to replace both of my hands with rusty hooks as I am poor, now how am I going to catch those rats, guess I should change careers. And I like random character creation, we have done too much of that allocating points shit in the past and it got stale. Guess we're not sane

Some randomness during character creation is a good thing. Otherwise, everyone end up playing a bunch of clones, based on optimal builds. But WFRP can be too excessive in randomness. I can understand that random starting class can be appealing to some people, but if someone wants to play a bow-wielding hunter, he shouldn't really be forced to start as a corpse stealer.

I must admit I never played WFR, but I understand that you can walk away from your career towards any other you want, right? I guess that this could end up taking too long, but I think that a little randomness about who your character is can be quite fun.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

I'm wondering if randomized character generation in single player RPGs makes that much sense really. In a multiplayer setting like a DM'ed PnP group I guess it makes sense because you only get X number of re-rolls at most or such, but when you can just roll a zillion times until you get some uber character when it's just you and the computer? Point-buy and such seemed somewhat more sensible and "fair" in that setting.

 

[SuicideBunny]

I'm sort of collecting and looking at various mechanics for skills and combat to decide what to use.

for a comp game?

The thing with being able to increase the risk yourself and "daring" stuff that SuicideBunny mentioned for example is something I'd find interesting to try and incorporate.

it adds depth and ability to distinguish characters that are identical from a purely numerical standpoint from each other and also gives the player a way to influence the skill check other than the binary "roll dice: yes/no" choice.
both are pretty strong points in my book.

Exploding dice sound more sensible than the flat 5% chance for a critical/guaranteed hit you get from rolling 20 in D&D, for example.

eh, exploding dice do have their own problems, just like rolling a single die has.

the question really is what you want to achieve.
do you want a gimmicky or fast system, should the player be able to influence the result in any way other than simply throwing the dice, do you want a limited (good for realism) or open ended (good for heroic fantasy mentality) scope, how random should the results be, should professional experts be able to fail at the simplest of tasks related to their field of expertise in your system or not... and so forth

there are so many different pnp systems in all kinds of flavors and colors and levels of crunchiness.... you can get lost in them forever without establishing a few guidelines on what to look for.
besides, if you are looking at pnp, there is a lot of additional flavor stuff, for example deck of cards based resolution mechanics (including stuff that lets the player keep a hand and select results), the whole idea of fate/karma/whatever points that let players influence outcomes and whatnot....

even if you go for purely dice based systems there is a ton of possibilities, all of which work differently.
here are two sorta interesting additional examples:

fading suns used a d20, much like dnd, but it had you roll d20 <= attribute+skill, with the result indicating the number of successes you scored. much like in dnd there is critical success and failure, but the crit success is very different as it is rolling exactly your attribute+skill, which doubles your successes, so not only does it mean that critical success gets better the more skilled/gifted you are at something, it also has a very neat mechanic of comparing degrees of success to each other, especially when you couple it with some kind of buying mechanic (which they didn't, but whatever) where you can trade successes for effects you want to achieve.
very similar system with a roll mechanic that is just as random, but very different result and feeling.

the one roll engine lets you roll a pool of d10 equal to attribute + skill, see how many sets you roll and keep one of those for effect. the width and the height of a set both have different meanings, for example in combat width is damage, height is hit location, while for normal skills one can be the quality of the result, the other the speed of execution.
it gets a bit more complicated in combat because defense sets let you use individual dice from them to knock dice off of attack sets... then you can have fun with different effects, for example using waste dice for something (waste dice are all the dice that didn't come up in a set), or having different dice (dice that you can set to a certain result before or after the roll, or ones that modify the set in some way, counting double under certain conditions, cancel each other out under others and whatnot). basically there is a fuckton you can do in ore to make individual rolls more interesting, and the success/damage/location mechanic is very elegant, but it has other problems, like cover and difficulty/adverse conditions being one and the same.

herp derp

have fun playing your shitty and useless wood burner with minimal stats in a group where it is absolutely obsolete in every imaginable way, while not allowed to get drunk.

And isn't Traveller that awesome game where you can die during character creation?

yeah, in vanilla you can, and it is still less random than whfrpg.

 

[MicoSelva]

I must admit I never played WFR, but I understand that you can walk away from your career towards any other you want, right?

Not without some cost, which sets you back from the start.

I'm wondering if randomized character generation in single player RPGs makes that much sense really. (...) when you can just roll a zillion times until you get some uber character when it's just you and the computer? Point-buy and such seemed somewhat more sensible and "fair" in that setting.

I agree. With the pool-point available dependant on difficulty setting, maybe?

BG-like 'hybrid' system, which makes rolling for hours a viable approach, is the worst choice here, probably.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

herp derp

have fun playing your shitty and useless wood burner with minimal stats in a group where it is absolutely obsolete in every imaginable way, while not allowed to get drunk.

Oh no - my character isn't powerful, that's not cool my dick gets limp from the lack of power. And who's not allowed to get drunk, doesn't sound like a very reasonable playgroup.

 

[Freelance Henchman]

I'm sort of collecting and looking at various mechanics for skills and combat to decide what to use.

for a comp game?
...
the question really is what you want to achieve.
do you want a gimmicky or fast system, should the player be able to influence the result in any way other than simply throwing the dice, do you want a limited (good for realism) or open ended (good for heroic fantasy mentality) scope, how random should the results be, should professional experts be able to fail at the simplest of tasks related to their field of expertise in your system or not... and so forth

Yes, I've got a sort-of long term project to build a SciFi CRPG in Flash eventually: http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=51689

This would be a fairly talky and "realistic" game. As it looks now, the characters would have to choose a "career", and I'd expect them to not really fail simple checks once they pass a certain level of expertise. It's all still in a very very early phase though and I got to admit I'm not even sure myself what should be in this. "Fun" being obviously the main objective though.

 

[Alex]

I think that random (or partially random) generation makes sense if your game is very replayable and you make the differences between the characters important to gameplay. Like in roguelikes or more open ended games. If you want to make this kind of game, one useful trick is to tie bad results with good and vice versa. So, a character that is generated as a medal winning veteran might earn with its medals increased responsibilities, whereas a wounded, discharged soldier might have two or three loyal allies he earned when he saved their lives and got his injury.

 

[nekkerbee]

The system that has always felt most "right" to me is Chaosium's BRP system (Call of Cthulhu/Runequest/Elric/etc.) It's pretty lethal compared to d20, but that's one of the things I love most about it (especially with Cthulhu.)

I've been poking around superhero games for a few weeks, and the One-Roll Engine (Godlike/Wild Talents) is fairly interesting.

 

[MicoSelva]

The weakest part of D20 is the insane increase in hitpoints when comparing low and high-level character. What sense does it make that a guy, after a few years of training, is able to endure a crash with a freight train?
That's why I could never really get into p&p D&D. I just prefer systems where one strong hit with a sword can kill You.

 

[Xor]

Mage the Ascension. The entire premise of the setting is awesome and it has the best spellcasting of any PnP system I've ever played.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Yeah. However do you know Saga Edition Star Wars? In that D20 system there's damage threshold, dependent on CON and armour (I hate this spell checker redlining armour, fuck, I'm not american), which is basically the maximum amount of hitpoints you can lose in a single attack so that you won't die. I thought it was a nice compromise.

However I still prefer systems where you can instantly lose your limbs, like HârnMaster.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Storyteller System - oWoD, of course (Vampire: The Masquerade, Werewolf: The Apocalypse, Mage: The Ascension, etc.)
Deadlands was p. good too.

 

[roll-a-die]

PnP

Generics
oWoD ST system
Fate 3.0(DFRPG, Diaspora, Strands of Fate)
D20 2e

Specific systems and universes,
Exalted despite it's brokenness
Mage the Ascension
DFRPG
Planescape
7th Sea
Star Wars D20
Nobilis

LARP
Minds Eye Theatre, I played in a mage chronicle when I was 26, for around 3 years, was fun. Met one of my GFs there.
Only LARP i've done otherwise is A Game of Powers, IE the Nobilis larp

 

[Destroid]

I prefer systems that are light on rules and quick to work with. Which wouldn't really be much use in designer a CRPG, but I'm not really sure starting with a PnP RPG system is the best thing to do for that, although plenty of games have done so, the more successful one's have been DnD based, which has it's roots in a tactical/boardgame anyway, rather than a PnP roleplaying game.

So uh, I guess my advice is to start with a tactical game (or action) for resolving combat and worry about the rest in some other fashion.


Now that I think about it, Infinity is a skirmish wargame rule set that is designed for ~5-15 models per side depending on points that resolves things in an interesting fashion, where each model adds an order to the pool and then the pool or orders can be used at player discretion - you are able to take one guy and move him/fire his weapon many times in a single turn. However, any time you take an action in sight of enemy models they are able to react, either moving, returning fire or taking some other action. Rules are downloadable for free off the official website. Pretty weird at first when you are used to taking turns and the like but it's a fun game.

 

[Serus]

Warhammer 2nd edition (the only pnp i GMed). I dont mind randomness that much - at least not in caracter creation or combat. And i don't mind killing a character or dying... well i do but rpg should be bloody and really dangerous to be fun. The only thing that bothers me is the randomness in testing skills (outside combat), it is one percentile "dice", results distribution is linear which means even a very highly skilled character can fail a check he should easily pass. Sure you can avoid testing "easy" things but it is annoying.

Call of Cthulhu is good but i havent played it very much.

Pendragon looks great, i have the book - sadly never had a chance to play it. No one is interested in Arthurian mythology.

Dzikie Pola 1st edition - the best rpg ever... probably because i was lucky to play with the best GM i ever met. High randomness at first glance but we had a player who died every 2 or 3 sessions (literally) and few others who survived several years in game and dozens of sessions. Weird but true. The GM was fair. My only char lasted a dozen of sessions. Combat system is fun.

I never liked Vampire emo-faggotry and all related stuff. DnD of any edition is better left for computer crpg (as there isn't much choice).

 

[Xor]

I'm actually in an Exalted campaign right now. It's a pretty interesting system. I'm not a huge fan of the setting, though. The saving grace is having an awesome ST.

 

[Zomg]

GURPS but only for the rulebooks, I'd never play P&P anymore. If you hang out with 6 nerds in real life 1-2 of them will always make themselves unbearable to be around for some reason, rotating those roles as needed.

 

[roll-a-die]

I'm actually in an Exalted campaign right now. It's a pretty interesting system. I'm not a huge fan of the setting, though. The saving grace is having an awesome ST.

The problem is that the system is incredibly easy to break the shit out of, IE you can make a character who is incapable of being hit by anyone, at level one/game start. If you have a good ST, he's probably closed these gaps.

The setting is interesting, but really not my cup of tea anymore. It's kind of a mix of anime and comic books, it works somewhat, but it fucking sucks the life out of it. The politics are somewhat interesting, but again the anime aspects suck the life out of it, even for me.

 

[MicoSelva]

Dzikie Pola 1st edition

Wild Fields had the best combat system I've seen in a p&p RPG. It's a pity the setting is so hermetic and makes the game basically unsellable outside Poland.

 

[deus101]

Warhammer Fantasy RP
oWoD(hunter and vampire)
Call of Chutulu(although there haven't been much combat)


Oh...in a Vampire campaign I'm currently playing we killed two dozen werewolves with a tank and loads of claymore mines. YAY!

 

[JrK]

Pathfinder. With my additional houserules.

Since Freelance Henchman is looking for ideas for his game, I think it would be nice if you could mention what house rules you use and why (besides I am interested as well myself).

Sure. I'm constantly reading up (paizo forums have a wealth of info) on stuff and checking additional rules material. I have a dislike for too many additional rules (outside of the standard class-skills-feats structure) and I prefer everything to be done in context of the standard rules. For instance, the Advanced Player's Guide to Pathfinder has alternative class features and such that I'd prefer to see in the form of feats or class features ala the rogue and barbarian. I also dislike feats that allow you to weasel past disadvantages. I'd never allow a feat that removes power attack penalties for instance. So what I've done is go through many books (complete series: what a bunch of shit are those, APG and FR books) and taken what I found interesting and turned them into traits and feats.

The traits are custom made inspired by fallout unique advantages with disadvantages. For instance I made a trait that gives you an alternative weapon proficiency system (based on the fighter weapon groups) which you can take but then do not have access to the standard proficiencies. Trading versatility for focus (can wield a bastard sword for free but can't wield a hammer).

The feats are there to allow for some more options in the form of feat trees. I made some for shield users, two-weapon fighting, ranged combat, two-handed fighting, spellcasting and such. I also adapted a few feats which allowed you to use class features (channel energy) to do a few more things other than just heal or damage undead. They are not refined and need revision but my RP group kinda imploded so I don't see any progress soon.

[Not houseruled yet]Next, I've been seeing some cool alternatives to standard rules on the paizo forums. I'm personally interested in adding a 'round' system for overland travel that I have seen. Allowing limited actions per day (scavenging for food, traveling, setting up camp, preparing spells etc) and efficiently keeping track of this using a round system similar to combat, with standard actions, move actions etc.

Also I've been looking at condensing feats or allowing feats as general features for classes. Stuff like weapon finesse, even two-weapon fighting, trading AB,AC,damage among each other being available for all or most classes (I could see the wizard not having access to those). This would be to balance the feat tax (TWF requires too much imo), and to remove the feat requirements of feats that you want (like the improved combat maneuvers). This means you don't have to take the possibly useless Combat Expertise to take improved combat maneuvers.

What caught my eye was the E6 or E8 system with caps your level at 6 or 8 respectively, avoiding the unbalance of higher levels and removing the problem of the wizard being plain better than everything else. But I personally think I'd make it a E12.[/Not houseruled yet]

Most houserules concern the setting, however. I've made the players part of a mercenary guild which allows easy access to buying/selling equipment (hated having to RP that) and streamlines crafting (providing down time necessarily). It also allows me to keep track of the wealth of characters, since that and the magic item system seriously whacks the balance out of the game.

Oh yeah and we're playing FR due to our familiarity with it. And I've had much fun converting the gods, domains and their powers for clerics, as well as Pathfinderising the extra races. I have basically everything from NWN2, Drow, Tieflings, Aasimar, Genasi, Gold dwarves, Ghostwise halflings etc.

More questions? I'm willing to make a .doc of all that stuff and distribute it.

 

[Sergiu64]

Conan d20.