How important are races in your cRPG?

[Night Goat]

I think that intentionally unbalanced races could be an alternative to difficulty levels. "Hard mode" could be a race that is significantly weaker than humans, but maybe has a special ability that takes skill to use well. "Easy mode" could be a race of golems or the like, who would be immune to bleeding, burning, poison, pain, disease, drowning, hunger, and organ failure.

 

[Caim]

Playing a Redguard is by definition racist:

• They're good with weapons? All blacks are violent.
• They're good with magic? Playing into the magical negro thing, aren't you.
• Sneaking? So they're all criminals.
• Good with a bow? So they all hunt game like they live in Africa or something?
• Alchemy? So all blacks do drugs.
• Smithing/cooking/whatever? So they're doing household work, like a slave.
• Jewelmaking? So they all wear bling.
• Light armor? So they all dress in furs and shit.

This is unwinnable by definition.

Wait, but aren't the Redguard also great sailors as well? Everyone knows black people can't swim, so wouldn't this be a positive reversal of that nasty stereotype?

This is true. Because black people back in the day were not that inclined to travel by boat, the Europeans took them along on their journeys. Said Europeople also knew that the black people could not swim, so they made sure they were chained down so that they could not accidentally fall overboard.

Spoiler

 

[Alchemist]

In my game I'm thinking of having an amoeboid race similar to Dralasites from Star Frontiers. They have a gameplay disadvantage in that they can't wear armor but their advantage is they can easily change shape depending on the situation. That's the kind of racial distinctions I'd like to see more of.

 

[Caim]

Races can be made more interesting if given something of a twist. Dwarves are often associated with jews, but they have more in common with Sikhism, especially its five Ks: Kesh (long, uncut hair and beards for men), Kachhera (long underwear, representing a conservative sexual morale and that you are willing to accept the consequences of taking them off when getting laid), Kangha (a wooden comb carried in the hair; just because you don't cut your hair doesn't mean you don't have to care for it), Karra (a steel armlet, symbolising the Dwarves' aptitude with metals) and the Kirban (a dagger, few dwarves would go out without carrying at least one weapon). Something like that could make the Dwarves more interesting. Plus, the Sikh don't drink alcohol, which makes it an aversion of the perpetual drunk Dwarves.

I would love to see something like this. The real problem that you're getting at here is that when there are multiple races in a fantasy game, there is no such thing as culture. Sure, humans have some semblance of culture even in badly written games because they're the focus of the game, but that's about it. Even in a game that tries to have some sort of grimdark twist on elves/dwarves/orcs, you pretty much know exactly what you're going to get. You don't get the sense that they are a people forged from a history that made them into what they are. This is what everybody misses out on when they try to rip off Tolkien.

But this is just the storyfag reason for why not much has been done with races. The gameplay issue is that race rarely place anywhere near as big of a role as stats or class in a lot of games, so with a few exceptions, it just becomes window dressing.

Exactly, the culture thing. Few games get this right: it's either everyone is the same except maybe a few different sub-races (every dwarf ever), the ones who differ are angsty loners who rebel against their people and their ways (Drizzt, Wrex). I couldn't even name a situation where this is averted.

In my game I'm thinking of having an amoeboid race similar to Dralasites from Star Frontiers. They have a gameplay disadvantage in that they can't wear armor but their advantage is they can easily change shape depending on the situation. That's the kind of racial distinctions I'd like to see more of.

This can certainly work in an RPG, but in a game that would prove rather problematic.

 

[Alchemist]

This can certainly work in an RPG, but in a game that would prove rather problematic.

Can you elaborate on where you see the problems? Technically, it might be a challenge representing an shape-changing amoeba visually - that's mainly the issue I see. Game-logic wise I don't necessarily see issues - but I'd like to hear what you think.

 

[Ranselknulf]

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mounted-by-dwarfs-dana-bowman/1114374833?ean=2940044281561

Behold.. epic high fantasy!

When Queen Catrine's journey is interrupted by the arrival of seven dwarfs intent on taking her into bondage, she's forced to play along. The only way out may force her to stretch herself in new and not unpleasant ways...Mounted by Dwarfs is for adult readers only. It features passionate embraces, shamefully thrilling compromises and daring escapes in the course of eight thousand words....

 

[Kamoho]

I've never played a racing cRPG.

Spoiler

 

[Caim]

This can certainly work in an RPG, but in a game that would prove rather problematic.

Can you elaborate on where you see the problems? Technically, it might be a challenge representing an shape-changing amoeba visually - that's mainly the issue I see. Game-logic wise I don't necessarily see issues - but I'd like to hear what you think.

The art monkeys can make them look the part, but the whole "shapeshift in a number of radically different things" is inherently limited by the format. How many shapes can such a character realistically take? I'd say half a dozen at best. If you want to account for every possible form a player could possibly take, you'd need an editor on par with Spore.

For example, in 4th edition D&D you have a race called the Shardmind: constructs consisting of shards of psionically charged crystal who sprung from the gate that keeps the Old Ones and Friends out. They can disassemble and reshape themselves on a whim, growing an extra head, an additional set of arms or whatever. You could use this to turn your character into a ladder or something so that the party can climb up to a hole, or a makeshift bridge across a gap. You could also store weapons inside your body if you want to get into a no-weapon place to murderstab someone.

Now imagine this in a cRPG. Either this would be heavily limited with a few pre-determined shapes or the "special" cases are pre-scripted set pieces and can only be used once a game and never again in a situation where it could be useful but is never used because plot.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Its depends what kind of character you want to RP; You Need disciplined Warrior who is good at crafting its own weapons and armors you choose Dwarf; You need spell wielding Sisy you choose Elf you need Diplo-Swordsman Rogue you pick human or better yet Half Elf/Hobbit. What sucks most its aside from a few games like DAO or Aracanum you could pick plain human otherwise; As to Gnomes they're in Tolkien book Silimarion as sub race of deep dwelling and metalcraft oriented Noldor Elves; very similar to ''Dwarves'' in Morrowind. (They most Badass Elves BTW headstrong to defy both Valars and Melcor and not at all Tree hugging)

 

[Maelflux]

I would like to see these races in some modern RPGs:

Gelatinous

I would pay hard currency to have a party of Gelatinous Cubes in an RPG!!!

 

[Storyfag]

One thing that should be properly explored is how cultures behave in a multi-species/multi-racial environment. Some strong, appealing cultures might replace/radically alter racial ones, others might be limited to the original race which spawned them.

 

[Caim]

You know what I have tired of? Every single time you encounter the "main" human race it is a generic European lot with bits of every major nation at the time.

Either take it all the way, like with a 1:1 copy of El Cid's Valencia or do something different. Have the base humans live in a place that looks just like medieval India or have them live in Mayan cities or something like that.

 

[Commissar Draco]

One thing that should be properly explored is how cultures behave in a multi-species/multi-racial environment. Some strong, appealing cultures might replace/radically alter racial ones, others might be limited to the original race which spawned them.

Detroit the RPG.

 

[laclongquan]

Fuck fantasy!

Emulate a proper setting where proper race of Terrans meet each other. Like, the Ming explorers meet the Old Era Egyptians, the Aztec theocracy meet the Ancient Persian Empire, etc... emulate or make a good guess each race's reactions toward others. Then set a game in that setting.

You have all you need in term of background data. You just need to make good guess about the reactions.

Kinda like Civilization: the RPG.

 

[Alchemist]

This can certainly work in an RPG, but in a game that would prove rather problematic.

Can you elaborate on where you see the problems? Technically, it might be a challenge representing an shape-changing amoeba visually - that's mainly the issue I see. Game-logic wise I don't necessarily see issues - but I'd like to hear what you think.

The art monkeys can make them look the part, but the whole "shapeshift in a number of radically different things" is inherently limited by the format. How many shapes can such a character realistically take? I'd say half a dozen at best. If you want to account for every possible form a player could possibly take, you'd need an editor on par with Spore.

For example, in 4th edition D&D you have a race called the Shardmind: constructs consisting of shards of psionically charged crystal who sprung from the gate that keeps the Old Ones and Friends out. They can disassemble and reshape themselves on a whim, growing an extra head, an additional set of arms or whatever. You could use this to turn your character into a ladder or something so that the party can climb up to a hole, or a makeshift bridge across a gap. You could also store weapons inside your body if you want to get into a no-weapon place to murderstab someone.

Now imagine this in a cRPG. Either this would be heavily limited with a few pre-determined shapes or the "special" cases are pre-scripted set pieces and can only be used once a game and never again in a situation where it could be useful but is never used because plot.

Those are good points and you are right that it is limited compared to PnP RPGs but even with those limits it's still more interesting than "+2 STR, -2 INT, infravision". I'm thinking a dralasite could have racial combat feats due to flexibility, an ability to bypass locked gates, stealthing flatly along the ground - stuff like that which is a general special ability useful in many situations. Occasionally there could be pre-scripted cases that would supplement that. cRPGs will never reach the flexibility of PnP RPGs but I still think designers should strive for it.

You know what I have tired of? Every single time you encounter the "main" human race it is a generic European lot with bits of every major nation at the time.

Either take it all the way, like with a 1:1 copy of El Cid's Valencia or do something different. Have the base humans live in a place that looks just like medieval India or have them live in Mayan cities or something like that.

Totally agree with this - I'm so bored of bog-standard European humans. Talislanta and Empire of the Petal Throne (Tekumel) are two PnP fantasy RPGs which changed things up well in this regard - drawing a lot from non-European cultures for inspiration.

 

[Overboard]

Emulate a proper setting where proper race of Terrans meet each other.

I initially read this as 'prosper' and my mind wanted to explode.

You could get ideas from the Time Odyssey series (please don't buy it), although it is full of retardation such as animalistic savage Mongols vs classy civilised Greeks.

 

[mondblut]

...and bawwing about the evil whitey's privelege hath commenceth.

 

[Ranselknulf]

...and bawwing about the evil whitey's privelege hath commenceth.

working as intended.

 

[Alchemist]

...and bawwing about the evil whitey's privelege hath commenceth.

I'm not talking about real-world politics - I just think medieval merry olde England is getting fricken boring. World-builders need to get more creative is all I'm saying. Even just eastern Europe based would be better (ala the Midgard PnP setting).

 

[mondblut]

I'm not talking about real-world politics - I just think medieval merry olde England is getting fricken boring. World-builders need to get more creative is all I'm saying. Even just eastern Europe based would be better (ala the Midgard PnP setting).

I'll take another medieval merry olde England over some niggeristan any day, sorry. Trying to spell potato names isn't exactly exciting either.

I would agree more games should take cues from medieval merry olde Deutschland for a change, though.

 

[Alchemist]

I'm not talking about real-world politics - I just think medieval merry olde England is getting fricken boring. World-builders need to get more creative is all I'm saying. Even just eastern Europe based would be better (ala the Midgard PnP setting).

I'll take another medieval merry olde England over some niggeristan any day, sorry. Trying to spell potato names isn't exactly exciting either.

I would agree more games should take cues from medieval merry olde Deutschland for a change, though.

More Germanic influence would definitely be cool, I agree.

 

[Crevice tab]

I don't mind the "standard" culture being Fantasy Medieval Yooorup so much if it's implemented tastefully.

Even properly implemented 'standard' Fantasy Medieval Yooorup culture gets really boring after a while.

 

[RK47]

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/mounted-by-dwarfs-dana-bowman/1114374833?ean=2940044281561

Behold.. epic high fantasy!

When Queen Catrine's journey is interrupted by the arrival of seven dwarfs intent on taking her into bondage, she's forced to play along. The only way out may force her to stretch herself in new and not unpleasant ways...Mounted by Dwarfs is for adult readers only. It features passionate embraces, shamefully thrilling compromises and daring escapes in the course of eight thousand words....

When is the Skyrim DLC coming out.

Meet the Author
From the wild lands of central New Jersey, Dana Bowman now writes throughout time, space, and dreams, freed from the constraints of puritanical morality.

 

[Caim]

I love the combination of being for adult readers only, yet it quotes "passionate embraces" on B&N. Oh, and the "stretch herself in new and unpleasant ways" of course.

Spoiler

The Codex will be needing a review of the book of course.

 

[bhlaab]

I think some people rate dwarves because they are generally a brutish manly type race and the people that love them are probably over compensating for something through role playing.

No, I mean in-setting. Like in the Forgotten Realms is there no such thing as a short human or a human with dwarfism? If Warwick Davis showed up on the sword coast would they say "you're not a human go live in a cave"?