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TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
1) The Linux viability can depend a lot on how comfortable you are with Linux. Since i have been using Linux for 2 decades professionally, i can handle anything, any problem. There are many things that can seem as impossible problems to solve if you have no expertise. Sure, there are some objective downsides to Linux, but as long as you know how to handle the OS and are comfortable working your way around its limitations, then you are fine. In the end, it is a tradeoff.
I used to have a dual boot for many years, but i have been Linux-only for some time now since i realized i didn't really need the Windows option anymore. Sure, i could keep the dual boot for a rare occasion, but i do have access to Windows pcs if a really, really need it, and i keep a virtual box machine with Windows 10 for the rare incompatible Office file etc. I am not a hardcore gamer anymore in the sense that i have to play every single new game no matter what, and i prefer using Linux as a daily driver besides gaming, so really, dual boot was a waste of disk space for me.
2) I don't get the "poking fun" bit. Aren't the "always updated and safe from spying and viruses" true for every distro?
If anything, my obsession with updated software is what precludes me from using Ubuntu. Ubuntu typically offers obsolete software, even at release date...
ColonelTeacup
Liturgist
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2017
- Messages
- 1,433
Hmmm... Let me see my options:
Windows 10: Every game I'm interested in works like a charm on is. It is fast, didn't cause me one bit of a problem since its release. Using it is self-explanatory.
Linux: Runs a limited selection of games, doesn't offer any noticable adventage over Windows 10, yet it is not as easy to use for someone who never used it before.
Thanks, but I stick to Windows.
Windows 10: Every game I'm interested in works like a charm on is. It is fast, didn't cause me one bit of a problem since its release. Using it is self-explanatory.
Linux: Runs a limited selection of games, doesn't offer any noticable adventage over Windows 10, yet it is not as easy to use for someone who never used it before.
Thanks, but I stick to Windows.
Mexi
Dumbfuck!
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,811
Shut the fuck up. You don't need Linux to survive in your mother's basement giving zero benefits to the world. I do real work on Linux. Windows is superior. Now sit the fuck down.
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Windows 10 drawbacks:
1) It costs money, unless you get it with a premade pc/laptop or pirate it
2) It is a security risk, with tons of malware and security holes
3) It is a pain to maintain. The update process it has is time consuming and has the potential to even DELETE YOUR FILES, as we discovered recently... Also you need to update every single application and library on your pc manually
4) It is less customizable. You can't really change the interface of Windows 10 to your liking. You may change the themes a little bit, and that's it.
5) Microsoft is literally spying on you
6) Telemetry shows its ugly head every show often and slows your pc to a crawl. You have to shut it down manually every time
7) It is a resource hog. Linux can be much faster.
You convienently ignored those issues in your Windows 10 "description".
As for your Linux FUD:
1) It does have issues with some games, but so does Windows 10 with older games that run perfectly fine on WINE. Most of the games that are unplayable on Linux are considered popamole trash here, so i am surprised that someone would feel like his options are limited on Linux...
2) Linux offers significant advantages compared to Windows. For one, look at the downsides listed above. For two, think about the open source. Opensource and openstandards are healthier for the industry going forward. Microsoft's masterplan has always been to vendor lock-in everyone, and that is what forced Valve to make Steam Linux compatible and attempt to create a Linux console. Microsoft's long term goal is to become like Apple, a walled garden, and offer software only through their windows 10 store. Then they will control prices, and literally how everyone will be using their computer. Linux is the only way we have of ensuring a proper, open, healthy, desktop environment, outside of corporate paws.
3) Linux is no harder to learn than Windows is. People seem to forget that at some time they were n00bs in the windows world too. They learned through exposure to windows pcs. Yes, using Linux at first can feel like you became a n00b again, but it is not that hard anymore with all those distros designed around being newcomer friendly. Installing a newcomer friendly distro like Ubuntu can be easier than installing Windows 10, and using it is definitely as easy. Most people will never have to use the console anymore, unless for troubleshooting. And even then a simple google search can deliver the exact steps and console commands to solve most issues.
The upside to this is that once your learn Linux, you really learn Linux. What i mean is that there are limits to what you can learn and do with Windows, due to them being a closed ecosystem. You are always only exposed to what microsoft is willing to let you see and configure. And these things change a lot through each windows version. There is a reason the no 1 trouble shooting advice in the Windows world is "format drive, reinstall". You never hear anyone on Linux saying that, EVERYTHING can be fixed without a format...
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
I highly doubt you are a professional. A true professional wouldn't say something like this kid. Most probably you are some teenager who installed Ubuntu at some point, found out he couldn't play Call of Duty out of the box, and hated it.
ColonelTeacup
Liturgist
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2017
- Messages
- 1,433
Why use Windows 10 when Windows 7 exists?
TemplarGR
Dumbfuck!
Because Windows 7 has most of 10 downsides, it will stop receiving security updates a year from now, and it doesn't even offer some of the benefits of 10 like D3D12. It is also slightly slower than 10.
If you just have to use Windows, for any retarded reason, most likely to do with playing AAA First person shooters like the true popamoler you are, then just use 10.
Lord Andre
Arcane
TheImplodingVoice
Dumbfuck!
If you do real work with Linux you wouldn't be talking about Windows at all you faggoted nigger kike
Lord Andre
Arcane
I am sure there are enterprise environments where you can make a good case for linux and that is an interesting discussion to have, but as far as personal, home use, entertaiment oriented computers go, the only reason to stray away from windows is if you are a pedantic faggot loser. The kind of little shit that constantly scripts overcomplicated useless shit in batch but has never touched a c++ compiler in his life, a failed programmer wannabe, a sad little poser that lacks the intellect to play with the big boys, a certified nothing.
soulburner
Cipher
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2013
- Messages
- 810
This is not yet the year of Linux on desktops. It did make lots of improvements in the last few years, both in performance, ease of use and stability of the graphical environments. There are still things you must do in the terminal to configure some stuff *but* if you are a n00b, you don't have to. Set your mouse speed, default browser and for most people it's all they ever need to do. The built in application "stores" are a great way to install software and keep them up to date.
Unfortunately, the downsides to using Linux instead of Windows are many:
1 - no hardware video acceleration in web browsers, at least the popular ones, like Chrome/Chromium (and all based on it) and Firefox. This makes watching youtube videos consume your battery much, much more, especially if you're watching 1080p or higher. Firefox also disables layer acceleration by default (can be forced enabled in about:config), thus rendering everything in software, so browsing the web is slower - not by much, but it's possible to notice. Chromium seems to work as fast as on Windows, though.
2 - the usual: lack of popular Windows software. So you can find open source alternatives to many things, LibreOffice is surprisingly good, even if it still has issues with some files created with MS Office, but these are rather rare, at least in my workplace. However, if you need Office or Adobe Photoshop or some actually good audio editing/mixing/mastering software, you will have trouble.
3 - Windows games are a hit and miss. Many of them work "out of the box", but suffer a performance penalty - if your PC is powerful enough, you may not notice any, or at least a significant difference, but on slower machines, which barely keep stable framerates, you will get worse framerates, making some games unplayable. Some games that have low hardware requirements on Windows, with Wine they will keep you warm during winter by running the CPU at max turbo frequencies. The native Linux games are a hit and miss, too - some of them work great, on par with Windows version, some of them have significantly lower performance. It's just the developers rarely have the time, knowledge and funds to keep the Linux version top notch. If they use Direct3D on Windows, they often make the OpenGL renderer an afterthough. Unfortunately, Vulkan still refuses to become widely used.
4 - battery life. No matter what I do and how fluid the whole system runs, battery life is still worse than on Windows. The difference is not huge, but it's significant enough to notice.
5 - at least on my end, there are issues when you want to take some control over your CPU. The Intel p-state driver seems to ignore settings like disabling turbo or setting min/max frequency ranges. Running some programs will somehow override your settings and make the CPU run at it's maximum. Sure, you can disable the p-state driver and use cpufreq, or whatever, but p-state is generally considered higher performance (faster switching between frequencies and thus better power saving, etc).
Doesn't happen on Windows - setting power plans or using stuff like ThrottleStop works 100%.
The good things about Linux?
1 - it just works. It often runs on hardware that could never meet Windows requirements. Lower memory footprint, lower hard disk footprint. You can give life to an old laptop.
2 - the software you install with the built in package manager is automatically kept up to date and you don't have to deal with updaters or updating them manually.
3 - the system itself updates hassle-free, not requiring a reboot pretty much ever. You will never come back to your PC and see your work being aborted by Windows Update, the worst you can find is a notification hidden in a notification panel, telling you there are updates and it might be a good idea to restart Firefox, or something
4 - the system and 99% of software is completely free and open source. There are many programmers out there that support many projects and keep it up to date and secure. Whenever someone finds a way to improve performance, his/her patches will be welcome and included as fast as possible. When something breaks, there will pretty much always be this someone, who will have a solution.
5 - Windows gets old and tired - after using it for a longer period of time, installing and uninstalling software, you will inevitably come to a moment, where everything becomes slower than on a fresh install. This effect is much less significant on Windows 7/8/10, but it still exists. Linux, at least on my end, refuses to slow down over time.
This year, with Steam's Proton it's a big step towards making Linux more popular on the desktop. It may increase it's market share a bit, but we're still not there. Many users will be put off by it even if they use the most Windows-like look and feel of the desktop, because some things will still look too different. Linux is still for people who either use it for work or just like to play with new things and get bored of just using their PC like normal people
I use Linux because I want to learn new things that might some day apply at my job. However, for the past few days, I see myself going back to Windows more often. No matter how much I like Linux and dislike Windows 10, some things just won't run. When it comes to games, Pillars of Eternity runs surprisingly well on Linux, but Deadfire does not - performance seems to be almost half of that on Windows, even though there are native Linux binaries there...
Developers have now a way to see how many gamers run their products on Linux. If they see high enough numbers there, they might consider a native Linux client in the future. However, some of them might think Proton does the job for them so well, they might not care about anything native
So... you want to experiment and learn? Try Linux, it's not as scary as you might think. If your grandma uses a PC to browse food recipes, you can build a cheap computer for her with a free operating system and she may not even notice it's not the same thing she got used to before. Primarily for gaming? Not yet.
Unfortunately, the downsides to using Linux instead of Windows are many:
1 - no hardware video acceleration in web browsers, at least the popular ones, like Chrome/Chromium (and all based on it) and Firefox. This makes watching youtube videos consume your battery much, much more, especially if you're watching 1080p or higher. Firefox also disables layer acceleration by default (can be forced enabled in about:config), thus rendering everything in software, so browsing the web is slower - not by much, but it's possible to notice. Chromium seems to work as fast as on Windows, though.
2 - the usual: lack of popular Windows software. So you can find open source alternatives to many things, LibreOffice is surprisingly good, even if it still has issues with some files created with MS Office, but these are rather rare, at least in my workplace. However, if you need Office or Adobe Photoshop or some actually good audio editing/mixing/mastering software, you will have trouble.
3 - Windows games are a hit and miss. Many of them work "out of the box", but suffer a performance penalty - if your PC is powerful enough, you may not notice any, or at least a significant difference, but on slower machines, which barely keep stable framerates, you will get worse framerates, making some games unplayable. Some games that have low hardware requirements on Windows, with Wine they will keep you warm during winter by running the CPU at max turbo frequencies. The native Linux games are a hit and miss, too - some of them work great, on par with Windows version, some of them have significantly lower performance. It's just the developers rarely have the time, knowledge and funds to keep the Linux version top notch. If they use Direct3D on Windows, they often make the OpenGL renderer an afterthough. Unfortunately, Vulkan still refuses to become widely used.
4 - battery life. No matter what I do and how fluid the whole system runs, battery life is still worse than on Windows. The difference is not huge, but it's significant enough to notice.
5 - at least on my end, there are issues when you want to take some control over your CPU. The Intel p-state driver seems to ignore settings like disabling turbo or setting min/max frequency ranges. Running some programs will somehow override your settings and make the CPU run at it's maximum. Sure, you can disable the p-state driver and use cpufreq, or whatever, but p-state is generally considered higher performance (faster switching between frequencies and thus better power saving, etc).
Doesn't happen on Windows - setting power plans or using stuff like ThrottleStop works 100%.
The good things about Linux?
1 - it just works. It often runs on hardware that could never meet Windows requirements. Lower memory footprint, lower hard disk footprint. You can give life to an old laptop.
2 - the software you install with the built in package manager is automatically kept up to date and you don't have to deal with updaters or updating them manually.
3 - the system itself updates hassle-free, not requiring a reboot pretty much ever. You will never come back to your PC and see your work being aborted by Windows Update, the worst you can find is a notification hidden in a notification panel, telling you there are updates and it might be a good idea to restart Firefox, or something
4 - the system and 99% of software is completely free and open source. There are many programmers out there that support many projects and keep it up to date and secure. Whenever someone finds a way to improve performance, his/her patches will be welcome and included as fast as possible. When something breaks, there will pretty much always be this someone, who will have a solution.
5 - Windows gets old and tired - after using it for a longer period of time, installing and uninstalling software, you will inevitably come to a moment, where everything becomes slower than on a fresh install. This effect is much less significant on Windows 7/8/10, but it still exists. Linux, at least on my end, refuses to slow down over time.
This year, with Steam's Proton it's a big step towards making Linux more popular on the desktop. It may increase it's market share a bit, but we're still not there. Many users will be put off by it even if they use the most Windows-like look and feel of the desktop, because some things will still look too different. Linux is still for people who either use it for work or just like to play with new things and get bored of just using their PC like normal people
I use Linux because I want to learn new things that might some day apply at my job. However, for the past few days, I see myself going back to Windows more often. No matter how much I like Linux and dislike Windows 10, some things just won't run. When it comes to games, Pillars of Eternity runs surprisingly well on Linux, but Deadfire does not - performance seems to be almost half of that on Windows, even though there are native Linux binaries there...Developers have now a way to see how many gamers run their products on Linux. If they see high enough numbers there, they might consider a native Linux client in the future. However, some of them might think Proton does the job for them so well, they might not care about anything native
So... you want to experiment and learn? Try Linux, it's not as scary as you might think. If your grandma uses a PC to browse food recipes, you can build a cheap computer for her with a free operating system and she may not even notice it's not the same thing she got used to before. Primarily for gaming? Not yet.
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Mexi
Dumbfuck!
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,811
Oh how wrong you are.
Mexi
Dumbfuck!
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2015
- Messages
- 6,811
Your post sounds like you were crying while writing that. You sound like some squishy moob'd up basement dweller. Yeah, I am a professional. I get paid to work on Linux, something you basement dwellers don't understand.
One of my works is currently in review with a scientific publication. I'm going to be presenting in an international conference soon too. It's no big deal, though. I'm enjoying life, and I don't need anyone's approval on this site. I receive enough thanks from people in the scientific community who cite my works. Oh, how wrong the Cuckdex is. As I said, Linux is pure ass for anything other than necessary work. I've worked with super computers. There is no reason to prefer Linux over Windows for just dicking around on a computer.
And yes, I'm superior to your crybaby ass that probably can't read this will all those tears flowing down. How embarrassing. Now sit the fuck down, neckbeard.
Bah
Arcane
My biggest gripe with Lutris/Wine is that it doesn't really seem to handle 64-bit prefixes vs 32-bit prefixes well. My wine-runner prefix is a 64-bit prefix, and when trying to install Underrail in Lutris it constantly messes up and creates a new 32-bit prefix but then installs the game into the old 64-bit prefix.
I could not get xna4.0 to install and work in a 64-bit prefix, so I had to manually create a 32-bit prefix just for Underrail.
So while DXVK is making life a lot better for Linux gaming in Wine, the biggest issue is still that Wine is annoying to work with and a constant pain. If you accidentally kill your wine process during the middle of a .NET4 install, then your prefix is forever hosed, with no way to uninstall .NET, and the installer will say "it's installed but corrupted" and can't fix it. So you get to create a new prefix from scratch, and copy everything over.
It's very time consuming, and I completely understand why the average person says "fuck that".
BTW, I use arch.
I could not get xna4.0 to install and work in a 64-bit prefix, so I had to manually create a 32-bit prefix just for Underrail.
So while DXVK is making life a lot better for Linux gaming in Wine, the biggest issue is still that Wine is annoying to work with and a constant pain. If you accidentally kill your wine process during the middle of a .NET4 install, then your prefix is forever hosed, with no way to uninstall .NET, and the installer will say "it's installed but corrupted" and can't fix it. So you get to create a new prefix from scratch, and copy everything over.
It's very time consuming, and I completely understand why the average person says "fuck that".
BTW, I use arch.
Bruma Hobo
Lurker
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
- Messages
- 2,412
I have been playing Might and Magic Vi and Age of Wonders on Wine, they're not on the list but so far they have been working just fine. Should I expect some problems later on?
HarveyBirdman
Arbiter
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
- Messages
- 1,044
You tricked me. I thought he was back.
Bah
Arcane
The list here isn't maintained. protondb.com is a better place to look. But if you've already got the game running, you're good to go.
Elwro
Arcane
biggestboss
Liturgist
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2017
- Messages
- 528
As a game developer, I genuinely wish for AIDS to be inflicted upon every Linux user on the planet. Mac users get a pass because they complain a lot less and understand that their machines are meant for shit like watching YouTube.
Having released software that works on Linux, I second that. A whiny, entitled bunch. The whining stopped after I doubled-down on a position that Linux support exists for developer convenience, code quality and superior debugging.
As such, it took me several years to finish proper Linux hotkey support only to receive a new burst of whining. RTFM or die.
For game development I'd never release Linux or OSX versions in official capacity. Linux users are basement-dwelling contrarians, while OSX has broken GL support with no apparent improvement over the years.
The original post is pure disinformation. You can't get comparable performance on any remotely recent title. That includes even Skyrim, not to mention the new Deus Ex games.
It doesn't matter whether the GPU is NVIDIA or AMD, whether you use gallium-nine or wined3d. You get 70% FPS in a typical case. Newer the game, the worse it gets. As titles come out they use more recent GPU features, hence worse performance.
The best example is Path of Exile. It runs out of memory without being out of GPU memory. It also works like shit despite not looking any modern. I have 60 FPS in 4K with global illumination enabled, on Windows. The only fault is that PoE uses D3D11. Forget about Disco Elysium for the same reason, at least in 4K.
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Bah
Arcane
With the advent of DXVK, that's largely not true anymore. I played through Elex under linux using DXVK just fine, and performance was great. Obviously, this statement doesn't hold for 100% of games, but many windows only games are now playable under linux with high enough performance.
The only reason you don't hear as much whining from windows users is because they aren't technically competent to even know what to whine about. ;-)
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