Copying real world regions in fictional worlds is very lazy

[Zariusz]

I dont think its possible to create something "new".
Human imagination depends on reality, everything is just combination of something that existed and humans experienced.
Its kinda like art, many people tried hard to imagine something unimagined and with that we have modern art, which is just perversion of traditional art.
Good setting should be like onion, it should have layers that are fitting. If those layers are not fitting author should modify them so they fit.
Bad setting is like empty package. There is no sense in sending empty package.

... Did i just fucking quoted Shrek!?

 

[North Gibraltarian Dog]

I dont think its possible to create something "new".
Human imagination depends on reality, everything is just combination of something that existed and humans experienced.

I disagree. Creation is not only posible as combination of already experienced realities but by imagining different paths with the most basic pillars of our knowledge of the universe (e.g. totally different societies with totally different architectures, institutions, motivations, faiths, warfare etc, or totally different beings with different biology) or even by free freak out with 100% different ways and basic elements for the new universe (creating what from our perspective is magical or surrealist).

We tolerate magic in crpgs, that is something non based at all in our experience, but let forget that for a moment a limit to more plausible contexts, there is still a lot of room for totally new realities not based in something that exist or existed according to our knowledge if we don't autistically put the limit at the most basic level (the existence of chemist elements, planets orbiting stars, liquid/gas/solid states, the structure of a monarchy, the ideological intransigence, ethnic identity, war, etc).

Some example: A society of intelligent beings with 3-based symmetry (3, 6, 9, 12 or locomotional apendixes, sound/light/electromagnetic emision and reception centers etc), complex hierarchical societies and individual minds but some types of habitats in which there is only communal complex architecture builded with some biological-based translucid fluid, hardened at the contact with air and forming mostly tubular shapes, pending hundred of meters on huge gorges surfaces, in a planet entirely covered with dozens of kilometers size mountains and canyons, something never seen in human history or Earth complex live observation. Isn't that "new"?

Now some examples in an already existing crpgs: What is the human experience equivalent to Redoran and Telvanni architectures? And Dark Sun psionics? What about Planescape planes?

 

[Zariusz]

Those architectures are combination of idea of house, tree, mushrooms and roots.
Combination of something that exist (or idea that exist). What you just said is just combinations.
When i said something "new" i mean something that never existed and will probably never exist.
If you take an idea, then add to it parts of other ideas making in the end something unique, this idea is still made from something that existed.
Just because some things arent real (like magic) it doesnt mean that idea of such things didnt exist.
It doesnt matter that certain combination isnt possible, because idea of such combination exist.
We cant think about unthinkable because this would be a contradiction.
We are not inventing or creating, we are just founding new combinations.

For example lets make impossible ridiculous combination:

In a certain land there are areas filled with things simmilar to trees.
Those "trees" dont have any branches and their "bark" reminds dried blood. At the top of such "trees" there are humanoid statues reminding squatting slavs in adidas tracksuits.
If a man dies in such area, new "tree" grows from his remains. Every statue has face of such dead man and has organic container linked to it that reminds a bottle.
This "bottle" has a liquid that is bitter if this dead man was an evil person or sweet if he was a good man. If someone drinks this liquid he will fell this taste for 1 second, but from his perception of time it would last time equal of that dead person life.
There is only one country that has such areas, eccentrics from whole world are traveling there to buy this liquid. There are government controlled "farms" of this liquid.
They choose certain people at young age and groom them into being good or bad depending on what kind of liquid they want, they kill them in those areas after chosen length of their life. This "luxury product" is very important part of this country economy.

Is it impossible? Yes.
Did anyone imagined something like this before me? Probably no.
But i combined this madness from existing things and ideas. For example those "trees". I combined tree, dried blood and squatting slavs. Things that exist mixed into mad combination.

I agree that today many settings are just carbon copies of each other, but you must also remember that not every man is capable of combining elements into actually believable unique working settings.
For example Dunmer wizards are basically nationalistic babylonian elves living in gigantic smurf huts and wearing insect armour. Not everyone can make this work.

 

[BING XI LAO]

Genuinely original ideas are rare but possible, some authors come up with really wacky stuff and turns out they are scientists or anthropologists.

 

[laclongquan]

You are missing the point.

Newness and originality doesnt mean good. When it's new and it's original, it doesnt necessarily mean good.

Because when you truly make something new, it would be very alien to players. And alien doesnt mean good.

 

[Open Path]

Those architectures are combination of idea of house, tree, mushrooms and roots.

Spoiler

Combination of something that exist (or idea that exist). What you just said is just combinations.
When i said something "new" i mean something that never existed and will probably never exist.
If you take an idea, then add to it parts of other ideas making in the end something unique, this idea is still made from something that existed.
Just because some things arent real (like magic) it doesnt mean that idea of such things didnt exist.
It doesnt matter that certain combination isnt possible, because idea of such combination exist.
We cant think about unthinkable because this would be a contradiction.
We are not inventing or creating, we are just founding new combinations.

Good thing that he was cautious enough to anticipate the aspergerian reduction to absurdity and strict idealism:

there is still a lot of room for totally new realities not based in something that exist or existed according to our knowledge if we don't autistically put the limit at the most basic level (the existence of chemist elements, planets orbiting stars, liquid/gas/solid states, the structure of a monarchy, the ideological intransigence, ethnic identity, war, etc).

You brought an uncalled general obviety in your first post: human creativity and experience are usually linked, very good -but you don't have way to prove that this link always exist-. You insisted then in the imposibility to call "new" to any creation linked with observable reality even if only at the most simple elements -the idea of tree, the idea of house?! WTF?-. You also fail to recognize how there are 100% new ideas in super-natural or surreal creations, independently of when they were created for first time. Because you aren't implying that "ideaof magic" exist since always or that was never truly created, isn't it?

Anyways the absurd and sterile discussion about the absolute limits of the concept "new", don't change the fact that this thread topic and most asnwers are about creative process originality, not about "what new really means?"

Spoiler

You cheap Plato!

Spoiler

Happy new year!

 

[Zariusz]

Happy new year to you too. Actually happy new decade to all of you, may this new decade be a decade of creativity nad overall incline.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Copying real world regions in fictional worlds is very lazy

Begone, loretard!
As if graphic-whores and storyfags were not enough.

Best fictional worlds were build based on the real world, inspired by ancient world maps, long forgotten region names barely modified.
This is not lazyness, it takes a lot of work and knowledge to do it right.

Lazyness (retardation?) is having barbarians coming from the Lands of the Mammoth Lords ... And being so proud of it you rub that shit on player's faces during loading screens ...

 

[muds_animal_friend]

I don't have a problem with the copy paste of real world cultures into fictional worlds so much as I have a problem with the fact there's always something radically different in the fictional setting that either has no impact on the real world culture or isn't justified in any way.

Like the standard high fantasy setting is usually build around 14th century(ish) Europe, and despite the fact magic is real -- and magic users are common -- nothing at all has changed in the social order. Castles are still a thing despite the fact any 8th level mage could blow a hole right through the curtain walls. Peasants till the soil with oxen despite the fact mages are able to create automatons. A golem could plough those fields in a fraction of the time. There are hundreds of people walking around that can literally control space and time but society is still a feudal shithole. The existence of magic has had no social or cultural impact. It's just there.

Or more recently there a fashion for 'gender balance' in work roles, so every second blacksmith or castle guard is a woman. Fine, but justify it. Is the male population of this universe only one fifth of the female population? Did most of the men die in a war? Is there very little sexual dichotomy in this world? Why are all these women in male roles? The change is never justified.

 

[Reinhardt]

Begone, bigot! Next thing you will ask - why there is black people?

 

[fantadomat]

Begone, bigot! Next thing you will ask - why there is black people?

But why are there black people?

 

[Reinhardt]

Begone, bigot! Next thing you will ask - why there is black people?

But why are there black people?

Я художник - я так вижу!(с)

 

[Harthwain]

Begone, bigot! Next thing you will ask - why there is black people?

He makes good point though: when introducing a significant change, there should be a significant impact.

 

[laclongquan]

Begone, bigot! Next thing you will ask - why there is black people?

But why are there black people?

This is easy question~

Because there's a lot of people love black people, is what. And I dont mean just blacks alone. Lotsa white and yellow love black.

Considering the original Dark Elf version in DnD. Then considering the Dark Elf version in Asian comic and anime.

When there's demand, there's market waiting to be supplied.

 

[Harthwain]

I was always under the impression that the human races as a whole were included as reflections of their real-world counterparts (read: they were included in fantasy setting purely because they existed in reality)?

 

[Reinhardt]

I was always under the impression that the human races as a whole were included as reflections of their real-world counterparts (read: they were included in fantasy setting purely because they existed in reality)?

Whites are standart - they can be both main characters or villains, yellows - because everyone love samurai and ninja classes, but blacks are just recolored whites - they have nothing to make them stand out. Because portraying blacks different would be offensive. They are diversity hires even in fantasy worlds.
I said many times - i would instantly buy decent rpg in african setting made by black people and casting black people, but all we can see is random niggers in medieval Europe.

Problem is not copying real world regions in games, problem is copying SAME world regions in EVERY game.

 

[Theldaran]

Fantasy means that anything can happen, as long as it follows some rules set up in place by the writer (i. e. consistency). But obviously, not just anyone can make this work.

Copying the real world normally just means that the writer wants to make some commentary on some group/nation/matter, but he's too cowardly to actually put real names there (imagine a work that trash-talked Russians or even blacks, the butthurt would be incredible).

 

[Reinhardt]

imagine a work that trash-talked Russians

CoD

 

[Theldaran]

imagine a work that trash-talked Russians

CoD

Enemy at the gates too, but the trash-talk was pretty suitable for Stalinist Russia, and this movie is almost 20 years now.

 

[Reinhardt]

imagine a work that trash-talked Russians

CoD

Enemy at the gates too, but the trash-talk was pretty suitable for Stalinist Russia, and this movie is almost 20 years now.

But in new CoD you help moderate headchoppers, who dindu nuffin fight russians who are literally ISIS.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

They only make fantasy games because of magic anyway.
If they want to copy countries and the whole history behind them why not use smth semihistorical like King Arthur or the Nibelungenlied?

WTF dude? Why do you spell out every word you type but then decide for the word "something" you are going to save some time by leaving a couple letters out? You don't do it for any other word, just the word "something"...... how much time do you think you are saving? At first I thought there is no way he is doing that..... but now, like three messages down, its clear that is what you are doing.

Are you just doing it just to try and trigger me?

 

[overly excitable young man]

Lol you petty little autist.
How should i abbreviate the other words?
I would if i could.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Lol you petty little autist.
How should i abbreviate the other words?
I would if i could.

u wud if u cud?

 

[overly excitable young man]

Right. I'm spelling "something" out now.
Another win for autism.

 

[Reinhardt]

We will never get tired of winning!