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Wireframe Dungeons: Yay or Nay?
- Thread starter samuraigaiden
- Start date
Bruma Hobo
Lurker
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2011
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- 2,412
I have no problem with wireframe graphics, and in fact I prefer them over shitty repetitive textures like in Wizardry 6:
If you don't have enough resources to properly portray different environments, you better keep using wireframe graphics and let the player's imagination handle the rest.
If you don't have enough resources to properly portray different environments, you better keep using wireframe graphics and let the player's imagination handle the rest.
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
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- 2,229
I prefer to have some graphics, even if they are "shitty repetitive textures" :-P.
Also if you are trying to keep things simple, i'd avoid wireframe since the hidden surface removal part will be more complex than the rest. It is way simpler to just use OpenGL 1.x to draw some quads and let the depth buffer figure everything out. Also you can do smooth turning and motion that helps with maintain orientation.
Last month i decided to make a crawler for fun and it took me a single day to have something basic working:
...sadly i got sidetracked by other stuff and forgot about it. I was developing it in a VM to avoid (short term) distractions but i accidentally deleted it when i tried to import another VM on top of it (i forgot it was there), so only the (slightly older) executable shown above is all that remains (and that is because i copied it to a USB stick to try and see how it looks on my retro PC).
Also if you are trying to keep things simple, i'd avoid wireframe since the hidden surface removal part will be more complex than the rest. It is way simpler to just use OpenGL 1.x to draw some quads and let the depth buffer figure everything out. Also you can do smooth turning and motion that helps with maintain orientation.
Last month i decided to make a crawler for fun and it took me a single day to have something basic working:
...sadly i got sidetracked by other stuff and forgot about it. I was developing it in a VM to avoid (short term) distractions but i accidentally deleted it when i tried to import another VM on top of it (i forgot it was there), so only the (slightly older) executable shown above is all that remains (and that is because i copied it to a USB stick to try and see how it looks on my retro PC).
I have no problem with wireframe graphics, and in fact I prefer them over shitty repetitive textures like in Wizardry 6:
If you don't have enough resources to properly portray different environments, you better keep using wireframe graphics and let the player's imagination handle the rest.
That's why the Famicom versions are the best versions of old Wizardry
Alphard
Self-Ejected
why to refuse 30 years of grafic improvements is beyond me. preferring a game with good gameplay and bad grafic over one with graphic only is one thing, but this, this.....
my eyes are bleeding
my eyes are bleeding
Siveon
Bot
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2013
- Messages
- 4,509
Wizardry 6 was always a bit too garish for me, in this case I prefer wireframe. It's easier on the eyes imo.I have no problem with wireframe graphics, and in fact I prefer them over shitty repetitive textures like in Wizardry 6:
If you don't have enough resources to properly portray different environments, you better keep using wireframe graphics and let the player's imagination handle the rest.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2012
- Messages
- 1,879,250
I envy your imagination - if wireframe graphics are indeed enough for you.
For me it is exactly the opposite: Repeating textures like in Wizardry 6 make it much easier to fill the blanks with imagination. Whereas with wireframe graphics there is nothing to work with to spark imagination.
Hipsters.
ProphetSword
Arcane
If you are looking at game development, here’s my story. A couple of years ago, I started development of a game that used wireframe graphics...
...and people were quick to let me know they would NEVER, EVER, EVER play a game that didn’t have wall textures in this modern age. So, eventually, I evolved it into this...
...because deep down inside, everyone wants some detail even when playing an abstract dungeon crawling CRPG.
...and people were quick to let me know they would NEVER, EVER, EVER play a game that didn’t have wall textures in this modern age. So, eventually, I evolved it into this...
...because deep down inside, everyone wants some detail even when playing an abstract dungeon crawling CRPG.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
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- 12,803
Not true
edit: also your ground and roof tiles looking different from your wall tiles makes it look inconsistent
Last edited:
zwanzig_zwoelf
Graverobber Foundation
I wouldn't say wireframe-like graphics and wall textures aren't compatible with each other. 
Problem is, mixing together vector graphics for wires and raster graphics for textures will result in a cheap, inconsistent look.
If you're using a modern engine, you can easily mix lines and polygons and use various methods (vertex colors, dithering) to add some detail to the environment while remaining pretty faithful to the style.
Besides, it usually scales well to any screen resolution and keeps the system requirements pretty low.
Problem is, mixing together vector graphics for wires and raster graphics for textures will result in a cheap, inconsistent look.
If you're using a modern engine, you can easily mix lines and polygons and use various methods (vertex colors, dithering) to add some detail to the environment while remaining pretty faithful to the style.
Besides, it usually scales well to any screen resolution and keeps the system requirements pretty low.
samuraigaiden
Arcane
If you are looking at game development, here’s my story. A couple of years ago, I started development of a game that used wireframe graphics...
...and people were quick to let me know they would NEVER, EVER, EVER play a game that didn’t have wall textures in this modern age. So, eventually, I evolved it into this...
...because deep down inside, everyone wants some detail even when playing an abstract dungeon crawling CRPG.
I have to be honest, I really like the first screenshot a lot more. Is this game out?
EDIT: Don't get me wrong, they both look pretty cool. I'd definitely play this.
Last edited:
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- Mar 25, 2012
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- 2,229
Small hint: avoid hard directional lightsources in floor and ceiling textures as they look weird and clash with everything else, instead try to use more ambient and little contrast. If possible add a second lightsource. Do a google image search for "floor pixel art texture" and see how most of them (at least the good looking ones) either have no definitive lightsource or the lightsource is very dim with just enough shade to make out the volume. Or check Doom 1 and 2 floor textures, most of them have no or very little lightsourcing (sometimes with two lights on opposite directions).
When it comes to walls you can use diagonal lights, but try to be consistent in the direction they come from - in your shot opposite walls have their light come from different directions. You may want to simply flip the texture on one side. Or alternatively when you are creating textures have the light only come from directly above instead of being directional.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2017
- Messages
- 180
It's very jarring if you're trying to convey a decent amount of detail when still using wireframes. like look at this shit
now, if you leave the enemies nameless and give feedback without the use of text? now the wireframe graphics are making a point. that's reasonable design
if you have to put "it's a rat and it's totally gonna bite you dude" at the bottom, just get some real graphics and animations you dumbass hipsterdon't forget to add some bloom to make it nextgen
might want to consider godrays and chromatic aberration too
now, if you leave the enemies nameless and give feedback without the use of text? now the wireframe graphics are making a point. that's reasonable design
It's very jarring if you're trying to convey a decent amount of detail when still using wireframes. like look at this shit
if you have to put "it's a rat and it's totally gonna bite you dude" at the bottom, just get some real graphics and animations you dumbass hipsterdon't forget to add some bloom to make it nextgen
might want to consider godrays and chromatic aberration too
now, if you leave the enemies nameless and give feedback without the use of text? now the wireframe graphics are making a point. that's reasonable design
Yeah this game is so hipster it used wireframe graphics before it was cool
Curratum
Guest
This is literally the Codex "autism" shake emote.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2017
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- 180
sorry, didn't mean to say some old game is hipster. just that copying it today would be, and that the screenshot looks bad.
Alphard
Self-Ejected
if you wanted me to vomit you almost managed to
samuraigaiden
Arcane
It's even more disorienting in motion
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2012
- Messages
- 2,229
I'm almost convinced that Moraff had one of those early SVGA cards that were slightly incompatible with each other and in his computer the palette was normal but he never saw his games on other machines until it was too late.
That, or like me, he had a monochrome monitor and his color choices were based on assumptions:
(those are two DOS games i made as a kid, notice the pink faces... you know, because skin is pink. I had a monochrome VGA and i didn't see until much later when i visited a friend to show the games how that actually looked like :-P)
That, or like me, he had a monochrome monitor and his color choices were based on assumptions:
(those are two DOS games i made as a kid, notice the pink faces... you know, because skin is pink. I had a monochrome VGA and i didn't see until much later when i visited a friend to show the games how that actually looked like :-P)
catfood
AGAIN
No, we have graphics processors today.
My favorite dungeon in Elminage: Gothic is the wireframe dungeon called The Cave Of The Ancients. It's filled with lovely references to Wizardry and Wizardry Empire series, as well as specific references to Wizardry 4; the entire dungeon is a love-letter to the genre.
They even work in the wireframes by making it part of the Wizardry lore by saying that the white lines where how the Ancient Gods saw the world ^_^
They even work in the wireframes by making it part of the Wizardry lore by saying that the white lines where how the Ancient Gods saw the world ^_^
Do you remember the trash can enemy which (I think) poisoned you? Said a lot about the game. Yes the visuals were terrible but it sticks in the memory.....
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