Bethesda General Discussion Thread

[SlumLord]

OK, but that still doesn't excuse crap-quality assets.

And for a company of Bethesda's size, couldn't they drop 1-2 million bucks and recruit some programming savants to iron out the more egregious bugs in their engine? I mean, it's not like that shit's quantum physics - a bunch of good programmers can do pretty much anything. That one dude created BattleNet almost by himself (forgot his name, he later went on to lead the Guild Wars company, can't be arsed googling him right now).

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

OK, but that still doesn't excuse crap-quality assets.

And for a company of Bethesda's size, couldn't they drop 1-2 million bucks and recruit some programming savants to iron out the more egregious bugs in their engine? I mean, it's not like that shit's quantum physics - a bunch of good programmers can do pretty much anything. That one dude created BattleNet almost by himself (forgot his name, he later went on to lead the Guild Wars company, can't be arsed googling him right now).

Sure, they should squash bugs and put more money into that, I agree. I'm just saying, in terms of the engine itself, it would be very hard for a graphically intensive engine to work with their games, unless they severely cut down on the amount of data the game stores. While people say Witcher 3 was gorgeous, you couldn't interact with every object and most of them were decorative, same with NPCs, and for good reason. To have that level of graphics and interactivity in the environment would be too much for any engine, so you have to compromise somwhere. Beth compromises in the graphics department to include high levels of detail and data in the environment, so that was all that I was saying. But yes, they should put more behind their efforts in some areas. Fallout 76 just looks like a gutted mess designed for 13 year olds, and it's a shame.

BUT, it's good that F76 will fail. I can see Todd already at the TES VI reveal..."Don't worry, the game has NPCS. *crowd laughter and applause*. And we decided to keep it offline because I heard you guys like singleplayer RPGs that aren't online MMOs. *crowd cheers and laughter again*"

So it's a good thing for TES VI in my opinion.

 

[Oracsbox]

The thing with engines is that you have to account for the amount of data that Bethesda games adds. Unreal engine or any other engine would have a harder time with being able to pick up every cup, plate, carrot, etc. that Beth games let you do. If they changed engines it would not be so easy to figure that out nor for other engines to handle it. I saw some people say "look at AC Origins! Bethesda should use that engine!", but games like that don't have nearly the amount of interactable stuff that Beth games do. It would be a totally different thing and maps would probably take an hour to load. So they have to use an engine that balances their graphics with the amount of data as well.

What's the point tho' I've never seen the point of all that shit being movable,only a special kind of chimp goes around collecting cabbages or plates it's unnecessary.It also looks like crap when everything gets blown about and no npc gives a shit
I'd rather Bethesda hired decent writers and either fully rework the engine framework and see what works best with it or just use something else entirely.
As for modding if the game was good to begin with it wouldn't 90% of the mods made for it.
It's pointless arguing anyway Bethesda are on a downward spiral to oblivion.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

What's the point tho' I've never seen the point of all that shit being movable,only a special kind of chimp goes around collecting cabbages or plates it's unnecessary.It also looks like crap when everything gets blown about and no npc gives a shit
I'd rather Bethesda hired decent writers and either fully rework the engine framework and see what works best with it or just use something else entirely.
As for modding if the game was good to begin with it wouldn't 90% of the mods made for it.
It's pointless arguing anyway Bethesda are on a downward spiral to oblivion.

Beth is the only dev with that sort of interactive detail though. I don't want them to become Witcher 4 with TES VI, I want to be able to pick up every item, look at every book, pick up a potato off the table if I want, etc.. Of course they could sacrifice that for less bugs, more beautiful graphics and gorgeous cutscenes, but that's not Bethesda games then. Each engine has its pros and cons and I like the level of interactivity Beth games have and wouldn't want them to get rid of that.

 

[Oracsbox]

Why ?
Books can be movable read and added to the inventory like most games but everything else what's the point ?

 

[Akratus]

Going through places, checking out all the items on shelves and such, finding secrets etc. does add something to the game but the physics don't, really. Have physics on some items sure but mostly having it like it was in morrowind is just fine and saves a lot of processing power. Physics adds way too little for the cost in performance.

There's pros and cons to using a different engine or the same one and personally I don't give a shit about graphics, in fact I think performance, artstyle, content, writing etc. is way more important and if tes vi is skyrim with f4 graphics but a less plasticy look and better combat/content/quests than skyrim I would be just fine with that.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

The thing with engines is that you have to account for the amount of data that Bethesda games adds. Unreal engine or any other engine would have a harder time with being able to pick up every cup, plate, carrot, etc. that Beth games let you do. If they changed engines it would not be so easy to figure that out nor for other engines to handle it. I saw some people say "look at AC Origins! Bethesda should use that engine!", but games like that don't have nearly the amount of interactable stuff that Beth games do. It would be a totally different thing and maps would probably take an hour to load. So they have to use an engine that balances their graphics with the amount of data as well.

Considering that it's been seven years and counting since the release of Skyrim, Bethesda Softworks doesn't have an excuse for not creating a new engine for their next Elder Scrolls game, but I expect that when it's finally released it will prove to be yet another iteration of the engine created for Morrowind nearly two decades ago.

 

[SlumLord]

What always kills me is the fucking greed of large game companies. I'm not talking about beggars like Obsidian or Inexile, but large firms like Bethsoft who have money to burn. Corporate would rather increase yearly profits to 500% instead of 499%, but that 1% difference is a brand new engine and a group of MIT geniuses who'd create gold with it. And some competent artists. And a writer who can string together a coherent narrative!

The sooner the entire industry crashes, the better. AAA games these days are the equivalent of rat meat packed and sold as tenderloin.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Why ?
Books can be movable read and added to the inventory like most games but everything else what's the point ?

Well if you played Morrowind you'd know what the point is. A lot of that stuff was hand-placed and you'd find goodies hidden, secret notes, keys, gems - whatever - as well as it giving the game a deeper sense of realism. There's nothing worse in a game where every item is just decoration and you can't interact with it. Bethesda since Morrowind has made everything interactable, and that's a level of their charm and world design, which deepens the experience.

And I agree, forget physics. It was funny but that's about it. Morrowind's style was fine as long as they'd give more control over how you placed things. There are people I know who liked to decorate their houses with the items they found.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What always kills me is the fucking greed of large game companies. I'm not talking about beggars like Obsidian or Inexile, but large firms like Bethsoft who have money to burn. Corporate would rather increase yearly profits to 500% instead of 499%, but that 1% difference is a brand new engine and a group of MIT geniuses who'd create gold with it. And some competent artists. And a writer who can string together a coherent narrative!

The sooner the entire industry crashes, the better. AAA games these days are the equivalent of rat meat packed and sold as tenderloin.

Large corporations have to justify all their decisions to their shareholders.

 

[SlumLord]

Large corporations have to justify all their decisions to their shareholders.

Yes, even shitty business decisions like announcing new projects on an ancient engine, or making a non-NPC online game full of bugs that came out pretty much universally panned.

There's profit, and then there's stupidity... which sooner or later starts to cut into said profit. With Bethsoft and Blizzard, it was only a matter of time. The soon they keel over and die, the better.

 

[Oracsbox]

Why ?
Books can be movable read and added to the inventory like most games but everything else what's the point ?

Well if you played Morrowind you'd know what the point is. A lot of that stuff was hand-placed and you'd find goodies hidden, secret notes, keys, gems - whatever - as well as it giving the game a deeper sense of realism. There's nothing worse in a game where every item is just decoration and you can't interact with it. Bethesda since Morrowind has made everything interactable, and that's a level of their charm and world design, which deepens the experience.

And I agree, forget physics. It was funny but that's about it. Morrowind's style was fine as long as they'd give more control over how you placed things. There are people I know who liked to decorate their houses with the items they found.

I like that you and others enjoy objects moving about but it's still pointless to have. Stuff like books and things being hand placed readable and collectible is easily done in any game engine.
This thing of having potatoes,cabbages and other shit flying around tho' is just detrimental to performance and a waste of resouces so if we get rid of that other options become available.
I'm with Akratus art style,writing and content are very important but this needs to be coupled with decent gameplay and the chances of any of this appearing in the next Bethesda title are slim to non existent especially on present form.
Todd the midget looks jaded as fuck and even admitted "they just keep making the same game" each iteration worse than the one before.The guy has no soul Fallout 76 is the end result a game built without passion with no redeeming qualities.

In before "TLDR" :D.

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

In before reading at all.

I agree that physics are pointless for the most part, or just overdone. But it's fun to look at shelves and see real items there. Sometimes expensive plates or things to steal if you're a thief and break in houses at night, etc.. If Bethesda removed that part of their games they wouldn't have a lot left. No other RPG out there does item interactivity like Beth does, closest being the new Divinity games but their inventory is a nightmare from hell.

 

[Oracsbox]

In before reading at all.

 

[RK47]

Fallout 76 is going to have a large number of significant improvements on that front, which will only keep getting better and better
...
“For Fallout 76 we have changed a lot,”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

ahhhhh

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA

all 49 GB of it.

 

[TemplarGR]

OK, but that still doesn't excuse crap-quality assets.

And for a company of Bethesda's size, couldn't they drop 1-2 million bucks and recruit some programming savants to iron out the more egregious bugs in their engine? I mean, it's not like that shit's quantum physics - a bunch of good programmers can do pretty much anything. That one dude created BattleNet almost by himself (forgot his name, he later went on to lead the Guild Wars company, can't be arsed googling him right now).

Yes, that's the thing most kiddies (and youtube "journalists") don't seem to get. The issue with bethesda was NEVER the engine. The arts assets are crap, and there is no quality assurance. They are also very lazy in the gameplay department, they don't really play their own games to come up with ideas to make gameplay more fluid.

If Bethesda did 3 things:

1) Come up with solutions for better gameplay, for example allowing some form of MULE for all that garbage you have to carry in Fallout4-76 in order to build a settlement, or make enemies and yourself less hp-spongy, stuff like that, their gameplay would be better

2) Freeze the game 5-6 months before release and begin a proper thorough QA process to get rid of most bugs before release

3) Use better art assets. Traditionally the textures of Bethesda are SHIT. They are also not optimizing their meshes and lightning properly. It is clearly a slopy job made in a hurry, they always seem developing their games in a hurry, unlike Blizzard for example.

then their games would be much better.

Replacing the engine would be a moronic thing to do because this would cost them A LOT OF TIME to start from scratch, would alienate all the mod makers, and in the end would result in the same limitation as the current engine... In the end, even with a new engine, if Bethesda keeps rushing their games to release and making a slopy job in the art asset department, the result would be the same.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Yes, that's the thing most kiddies (and youtube "journalists") don't seem to get. The issue with bethesda was NEVER the engine. The arts assets are crap, and there is no quality assurance. They are also very lazy in the gameplay department, they don't really play their own games to come up with ideas to make gameplay more fluid.

The issue with Bethesda is that, after Morrowind, they decided to ride their prior success into the ground by intentionally and repeatedly dumbing down their gameplay in myriad ways, starting with Oblivion, in order to appeal to a larger, less intelligent audience.

Your suggested gameplay changes for making it "more fluid" are minor issues irrelevant to the fundamental decline in their games, and improvement in neither their bug-infested release states nor their art textures would compensate for their decisions regarding gameplay.

 

[octavius]

I blame it on the X-Box.

 

[boobio]

 

[PhantasmaNL]

So anybody here got the CE for 200 fiat currency units?

Apparently it was advertised as including a luxury Canvas bag, for those occasions you want a rugged yet at the same time luxurious container for carrying your caps and pipegun. It actually turned out to be a cheap and flimsy piece of shit excreted out of a Chinese sweat shop made from the thinnest nylon on the planet. If you gently exhale in its direction it disintegrates into toxic micro particles that are probably deadly.

Reason given, severe Canvas shortages. We may actually be experiencing the Grand Canvas Drought, as predicted by a few shady conspiracy YT channels in the past months.

The resolution as offered by Customer support, a generous 500 Bethesda currencies to spent in the wonderful Bethesda online shoppe. So Get your red colored pipe gun now. All's Well That Ends Well.

 

[Bohr]

Even MCA experienced a moment of Beth-doubt on that one





(Guessing this was posted in the other thread which am not following)

 

[Beastro]

My problem is not with Gamebryo itself, it's the fact Bethesda refuses to update the engine to at least looks like it's up to date to the current graphics capability. Fallout 4 even at release looked dated as shit, with several games around that time looking far better.

Then there's the issue with Bethesda not fixing bugs that are somehow still present in the current iteration and they have been since Morrowind. This just tells me Starfield and ES6 will have these bugs unless Bethesda decides to finally fix them.

I don't give a shit about the graphics, even if they are ugly. What bugs me is the utter crappy gameplay that keeps getting worse.

I don't know how much of that is an engine problem, but I do know enough of their philosophy, especially Todd's, to know that it wouldn't matter. Todd is all for streamlining and has said himself he finds it odd to constantly be asked about what new things he plans to add to their next game when his mindset is "What can be taken out?".

 

[TemplarGR]

I don't give a shit about the graphics, even if they are ugly. What bugs me is the utter crappy gameplay that keeps getting worse.

I don't know how much of that is an engine problem, but I do know enough of their philosophy, especially Todd's, to know that it wouldn't matter. Todd is all for streamlining and has said himself he finds it odd to constantly be asked about what new things he plans to add to their next game when his mindset is "What can be taken out?".

The main problem of Bethesda is one i heard in a video recently, IIRC the one posted above: Bethesda developers have no pride in their work and have a "good enough" mentality. "If it builds, ship it", is their motto. They have no drive to actually improve, as long as the money keep coming...

 

[Okagron]

"Due to unavailability of materials"

Are you seriously saying that one of the richest gaming companies in the world, can't find materials to make canvas bags? Fuck off, Bethesda.

The main problem of Bethesda is one i heard in a video recently, IIRC the one posted above: Bethesda developers have no pride in their work and have a "good enough" mentality. "If it builds, ship it", is their motto. They have no drive to actually improve, as long as the money keep coming...

That definitely explains the graphics of Oblivion. And the potato faces.

 

[Oracsbox]

The character models especially are bizarre both oblivion and skyrim had the ugliest looking things I've seen in any game did no one question it ? Seriously if I worked for the studio I'd have burst out laughing and said "ok enough with the jokes what are we really using".

Skyrim couldn't even be bothered with consistent voice acting why have all these Nordic families got American kids ?.

It's always the shitty bottom tier writing that kills the games for me.The dialogue is shit,story is shit,motivations are shit it's all shit.

Fallout 4 factions were the most stupid things I've ever seen in a game the Institute for example makes no sense on any level they are the epitome of retardation.

A lazy arrogant company led by a pathological lying midget the fucker even lied about being in an imaginary chess club.
I hope Pete Hines goes fucking mental and rapes the Toddy twat !