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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. ultimanecat Erudite

    ultimanecat
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    Epic's Statement on Misinformation & Abuse
    So it begins...

    "Hi recently a developer signed an exclusivity deal with EGS and then acted like twats about it and then our CEO acted like a twat about it and then we all got internet harassed. We encourage our media partners to let everybody know that criticizing EGS or Tim Sweeney or devs who take our money and act like twats about it is alt-right nazi gamergater behaviour and should not be allowed. Any screenshots you see of developers or Tim Sweeney being twats are probably lies. No, we're not going to say which ones. Screenshots of us being twats are a form of harassment anyway. We look forward to nobody being able to criticize EGS on a mainstream gaming website from here on out. Thank you!"
     
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  2. Alienman Arcane Patron

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    Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
    And where is that discussion? Also another log on the fire that gamers are scum of the earth and devs are angels that do no wrong.
     
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  3. Syme Learned

    Syme
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    I'm amazed it took them that long. Usually it's gamers are shit and words are violence from the get-go.
     
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  4. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Leftists are in tough spot, agreeing with Trump or defending "gaymers".

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

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    Hate everyone, saves time. :x
     
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  6. Multi-headed Cow Cipher

    Multi-headed Cow
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    :hahyou:
     
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  7. Plaguecrafter Novice

    Plaguecrafter
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    Truth be told, the devs of Ooblets being condescending and talking about their consumers the way they are made wonders in spreading the name of their game. I've never heard of the game before this debacle. Neither has anybody I've asked.

    That being said, how many people are inclined to buy it after that is a whole another story.
     
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  8. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    And as said before, none of this is relevant.

    Technically of course there is a difference. However, for the user there really isn't.
    All this "but they're not obliged to keep their games there" is just like saying "go to sleep, tomorrow will be better". Just useless, pointless shit. It doesn't matter they're not obliged to if they're still doing it.
    Furthermore, an Epic exclusivity deal will expire and it's almost guaranteed that game will be released on other platforms. A retarded dev who doesn't want to use anything but Steam will never sell anywhere else. No matter how many Steamtards keep repeating the same retarded "but they're allowed to sell wherever they want" shit.

    I really can't see how having 1 year exclusives is worse than having forever exclusives.

    Also, yes, technically Valve is not to blame (if we don't go into the monopoly discussion), but who the fuck cares? It's only Steamtards that make it about who's to blame instead of the end result. Which is IDENTICAL, that is being forced to use one client for specific games. That is the only thing that matters. Not about who is to blame. But also Steamtards claim they have hearts of gold and they only care about the users. How is this caring about the users?

    Then of course, Valve is not to blame for this, but only Epic is to blame for exclusivity deals?

    Like here:
    Really?

    Developers sell only on Steam -> blame the developers
    Developers sell for 1 year only on Epic -> blame Epic

    :retarded:

    Also is it entirely Epic or maybe the developers are to blame too? You don't seem to be able to decide.

    Oh yeah, and let's not forget about stuff like The Outer Worlds which Steamtards still call an Epic exclusive even thought it will be released on the Microsoft Store too. Clear proof that all Steamtards care about is if games are not released on Steam. Previously seen with KOTC for example which Steamtards couldn't buy cuz "hurr not on muh store don't have acheesements also dont know how to use payment online looooool".
    Basically if it's not on Steam, it "splits the market" according to Steamtards. But noooooo, they don't think this makes Steam a monopoly.
     
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  9. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Yeah keep throwing me in the "steamtard" pot when I have repeatedly said in the thread that the removal of games from Good old fucking Games along with Steam in the case of confirmed GoG releases when the dev took the Epic exclusivity deal is what makes it even worse.

    I've also been angry at GoG and butthurt for them refusing to take some cool games into their catalogue. I even made a thread where we list decent RPGs that were rejected by GoG's retarded curation.

    So hey, yeah, there literally are games out there where the developer wanted to release on GoG, but their curators rejected the game, therefore the game is a Steam "exlusive" and the fault is not with Steam but with other stores that curate more heavily than Steam.

    If other stores were as easily accessible for developers as Steam, the whole "monopoly" case wouldn't be as pronounced.

    But as long as Steam stays the only noteworthy store that doesn't have curation, there will be many cases of "exclusivity". It's only Steam's "fault" as in Steam being the only store that would even take these games.
    And I'm not just talking about RPG Maker trash or cheap Unity asset flips. I'm talking about decent and creative indie games, like Grimoire, Das Geisterschiff, Vigilantes, Legends of Amberland - games the Codex cares about.

    There's also itch.io, which Grimoire and Das Geisterschiff released on in addition to Steam. It's a small store with little reach, mostly meant for indie games with a manageable download size (nothing above 5 gigs or so), but it exists and I appreciate when games release on it, since it's just as DRM-free as GoG and just as curation-free as Steam.

    As for KotC, people have been urging Pierre to release it on Steam not just for their own convenience, but so that the guy can finally make some fucking money off his game because he has been consistently retarded when it comes to financial decisions. He even rejected publishing it on GoG when GoG told him that they'd take KotC, but not Battle of the Sands, his shitty Dune 2 clone nobody cared about. What the actual fuck, Pierre.

    Also, the more stores a game is on, the better.
    If it's not on Steam, it should be.
    If it's not on GoG, it should be.
    If it's not on itch.io, it should be.
    If the dev has his own website where he sells it directly, even better.

    Personally I prefer Steam as it's the client on which I have the largest amount of games, but I also buy GoG games occasionally to get that sweet DRM-free installer or when the game is GoG-exclusive (like with Wizards and Warriors, excellent RPG), I have bought some games from itch.io which weren't available anywhere else, and I've bought games straight from the developer's website (like Teudogar), so don't put me in the same bucket as those mythical "steamtards" you keep referring to.

    Ideally, every game would be available on every platform, allowing the customer the highest amount of choice in where to get it from. Each platform has its positives and negatives, and every customer has his own preferences.

    Epic Store doesn't have any positives, only negatives. It's basically a clone of Steam... from 15 years ago, because it's missing all the features Steam added to its client since then, and it's more hostile towards the customer than Steam ever was.

    And enough alternative stores exist that Steam "exclusivity" (which is never enforced by Valve) is always the decision of the developer.

    Yes, Epic exclusivity isn't purely Epic's responsibility. After all, a dev could tell them to fuck off when they come with their bribe. But if a developer accepts that bribe after already promising other storefronts (usually Steam and GoG) in a Kickstarter or during pre-release hype, he's a fucking asshole developer.
     
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  10. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Also, you keep harping on about how so many games are Steam "exclusives", but what exactly is Epic doing to fix that?

    Last time I checked, Epic was also a curated store, rather than one where every halfway decent indie developer can freely put up his game.
     
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  11. Dexter Arcane

    Dexter
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    The Free Market principle is based on Supply & Demand. Someone thinks out/makes/develops a product that there seems to be high demand for, puts it on the market and reaps the monetary rewards as the demand makes the product fly off the shelves into the hands of consumers. What Epic is doing is closer to Patronage and does indeed "subvert the Free Market", as a product in that case needs only one customer, which is Tim Sweeney, to be commercially successful. It's kind of like eccentric billionaires or millionaires buying shitty paintings without inherent worth off starving artists because "they want to help". This might be good for the developers (or maybe not in the long-run), but it's definitely bad for consumers as it distorts market realities, murks/obfuscates consumer choice and the consequences thereof. It might also blow up in Epic's face in the long run, but for now whatever they do, they still have their Fortnite cash to draw on.

    I used to study game manuals lengthily back in the day, I remember spending weeks or months looking up shit for Ultima Online or just reading some of them for fun. But let's be honest, games are an interactive visual medium and not books, and you shouldn't be forced to study 100+ page Technical manuals to figure out games in this day and age. There's no reason not to explain the most important game systems in the game itself or by Tutorial and let the player(s) learn by doing and as the difficulty curve progresses. It's just lazy/bad game design. One of the reasons I didn't really get the "When does the Grimoire manual release?" Meme, outside of it being a Meme. Even as someone that's not that much into Blobbers it was easy enough to pick up and intuit most of it while playing through the game and there really wasn't a need for a manual to play the game. Oh, it's also easy to release a "game manual" nowadays as a PDF in the game download, the reason most don't do this is probably because they realize most people don't actually read them and it'd be a bad decision to hide critical stuff in there.
     
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  12. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    I doubt GOG would reject any major publisher's "AAA" game, which is what I was originally talking about. Indies are mostly available DRM free somewhere, or even DRM free on Steam, and I don't really complain about those at all. It's "AAA" games like Dishonored 2 or Shadow of the Tomb Raider that I can't get where I want to get them, for the most part.
     
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  13. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Which is entirely the fault of the publishers, not the available storefronts.

    I like Steam and get most of my games there, but I despise DRM like Denuvo, yet some AAA titles still go for that shit. Fuck big publishers.
     
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  14. Squadcar Learned

    Squadcar
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    Ah that reminds me the old excuse of why they even use DRM. To protect the initial sales period of course! IF that was even true, they could just make the game DRM free after a month or something. It'll have been cracked by then anyway. But why would they do that?
     
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  15. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    I thought they did get rid of Denuvo after a year or so?
     
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  16. Squadcar Learned

    Squadcar
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    Maybe they do but that would be the first I've heard of it. Anyone got some proof? I can go dig through some EULAs later and see if it says anything on an older game with Denuvo.
     
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  17. Mustawd Arcane

    Mustawd
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    Read it in the Denuvo thread:

    link
     
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  18. V_K Arcane

    V_K
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    On the contrary, it's all about who's to blame because it's also about who you pay. It's one thing to pay Valve for a game that isn't available anywhere else because Valve doesn't actively stop it from appearing anywhere else. And it's a completely different thing when Epic is purposefully inconveniencing me to try to force me to use their (vastly inferior, I must add) platform and pay them for it - that's just not the kind of business behavior that deserves to be rewarded.
     
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  19. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

    JarlFrank
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    Dishonored 2 removed Denuvo at the end of last year, which is when I bought it. The same happened to some other games.
     
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  20. CthuluIsSpy Arcane

    CthuluIsSpy
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    Not always. CA still keeps it on the Total Warhammer games.
     
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  21. bylam Funcom Developer

    bylam
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    We do that. Mutant Year Zero, is one example. I imagine Conan Unconquered will get the same treatment soon. (No I don't have any say in whether we use DRM or not - above my pay grade)
     
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  22. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    Well, for one thing it makes some games available both on Steam and Epic. Even if that comes with 1 year Epic exclusivity.

    But I never said it does anything. I'm not defending Epic, and I hope it burns together with Steam. The only reason it looks like I'm defending it is because I compare what it does with what Steam does and Steamtards get butthurt about it cuz muh superior client with trading cards reeeeee

    Fine, I give you that. But here's a better solution: don't pay either.
    Also, like I said, my problem is that Steamtards cry about the concept of exclusives (as in being forced to use a specific client. Literally steamtards are saying "why do I have to use the Epic client?") but when pointed out that the same happens with Steam they switch the goal posts to who's to blame.

    So, tell me, why do I have to use the Steam client to play certain games? Steamtards are not actually considering this since they equate Steam with PC gaming. That's why you hear braindead retarded vomit like "durr epic is splitting the market".
     
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  23. BlackAdderBG Arcane Patron

    BlackAdderBG
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    Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Because some of us actually remember when devs were moving to mandatory steam client use. It was the devs/publishers that were pushing it. On the Football manager forums, back in 2012 I think, it had huge thread with explanations why they did go steam. It was free DRM and auto patches. The reasons vary from multiplayer support, achievements, reach, auto patching to cloud saves, linux support, sales and whatever else, but from the thousands of games that are steam client exclusive, zero are because they were paid by Valve, so it's not the same. I don't like mandatory clients too and am not saying one is better or worse, but the situation and context are not the same. Most people were blaming Steam, like now they blame Epic, but fundamentally the devs/publishers are the ones that decide their games to be exclusive. Bribe taker is more guilty than the bribe giver, so fuck them and their shit, until piracy live Sega, Ubisoft and shitty indies can eat dick.
     
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  24. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    It's absolutely not the same "morally," you guys are right. However the user experience for someone who doesn't want a client and doesn't use their features IS the same. Either way I'm forced to load a fucking thing I don't want to play the game. Either way I have to buy on a store I don't want to use to play the game. Actually in Epic's case none of the games I've bought there have required the client, so it's better in a way because that's rare on Steam. I don't think people who happily use Steam as their base of operations really understand this perspective, but it's just as valid as any other.
     
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  25. thesecret1 Scholar

    thesecret1
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    Case 1: "Sorry, sir, the rare brand of whiskey you want is only available in the store across the town, nobody else stocks it. You will have to go there if you want it."
    Case 2: "Sorry, sir, Don Sweeno controls the whiskey market in this town and will break my legs if I sell you this brand. You will have to go to his store across town if you want it."
    Totally the same thing. After all, I will need to go to the store across the town in either case, right?
     
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