Gold Box I played the NES port of Pool of Radiance for a bit; this game is terrible

[KeighnMcDeath]

Play Pool of Radiance Remastered for NWN2 instead. It's one of the few modules that make that game bearable.

Hah! That's the only reason I even purchased NWN2. GBC is great and I liked the little features of say playing a Monk, Ranger, etc in Poolrad. I think you're missing out on not mapping with paper but maybe that's just what some of us enjoyed back in the past. I still map on paper at times (though GC is awesome). Of note, ASE (all seeing eye) is great for EOB I -III as well (but not DH). The module FRC1 is a bit different than Pools and some false entries in the crpg actually exist in the paper module. I did have all of Poolrad copied into text and was going to merge the two until a virus ate it all. Sucks.

 

[Lilura]

Hah! That's the only reason I even purchased NWN2.

Odd. I would have thought it better to play PoR the way it is meant to be played, rather than some lousy remake built on Electron.

And I would have thought the reason to buy NWN2 was Mask of the Betrayer (and maybe Storm of Zehir).

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I would like to see a comparison in the ai/tactics used for early SSI games Wizard's Crown/Eternal dagger, vs Shard of Spring/Demon's winter, vs GOLDBOX, vs Disciples of Steel. There are a few others like Realmz (mac), and say Hearkenwold - Android. I never had a mac but I could emulate it to take a look. I believe I recently managed to get Hearkenwold on my tablet but just have been too busy to play it.

I liked various mechanic in WC/ED like setting point, prone position, the invisibility, hiding compared to Gold box. Gettnig used to bleeding and wounds takes some getting used to as does the magic system. It is skill based rather than level so spending that xp is way different than just leveling up. I've played the GB to death on PC (started on c64 and some amiga A500). I Never tried NES and would only do so if I was OCD completionist.

 

[Poseidon00]

All things considered? I grant you it had some nice scenery and it was reasonably fun, but combatwise it was not up to the Goldbox games.

It has better and moddable AI and much more options, which ultimately triumphs over simpler turn based combat.

And modding the AI is so simple. I run a few custom mage and druid scripts on some enemies for added challenge, with multiple possibilities per turn, so it's not stagnant.

Still, I like the Gold Box games for what they are. Dark Sun stands as my favorite DnD game though.

 

[Casual Hero]

The main thing that annoys me about the original Baldur's Gate is that everytime you click on the map to keep moving your party forward, they all stop for like half a second before they start moving to the new point. That in combination with the slow movement made clearing some of those forest maps a real pain...

 

[Lilura]

I would like to see a comparison in the ai/tactics used for early SSI games Wizard's Crown/Eternal dagger, vs Shard of Spring/Demon's winter, vs GOLDBOX, vs Disciples of Steel.

I'd like to write a comparison on tactics employed in Baldur's Gate/Goldbox. But I'm too busy writing a ten-section comparison on Jagged Alliance 2/Silent Storm tactics, which is much more monocled.

No professional RPG other than ToEE can stand alongside those two without being laughed at, booed and egged off-stage. Because most RPGs are not built on tactical engines: they are built on storyfag engines which are coded by muppets.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Storyfag engine?

 

[Daze]

What even is considered to be the best gold box game?
What is the one with the best combat?

Did they improve it over time?
Cause it all looks the same to me but i'm a noob i guess.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

What even is considered to be the best gold box game?
What is the one with the best combat?

Did they improve it over time?
Cause it all looks the same to me but i'm a noob i guess.

Pool of Radiance is generally considered the best Gold Box game, followed by Champions of Krynn, and not coincidentally both start the party at 1st level and have a low limit on level advancement. The Gold Box engine was designed for lower-level play, and unfortunately soon runs into issues with effectively simulating AD&D at higher levels. Pool of Radiance also has excellent non-linearity and a well-designed overall structure, while Champions of Krynn tied into the popular Dragonlance setting and novels.

The Gold Box engined underwent a few minor "quality of life" improvements but otherwise remained the same through 9 games (plus Unlimited Adventures and two spin-off Buck Rogers games).

There were three series of Gold Box games:

1. Pool of Radiance --> Curse of the Azure Bonds --> Secret of the Silver Blades --> Pools of Darkness
2. Champions of Krynn --> Death Knights of Krynn --> Dark Queen of Krynn
3. Gateway to the Savage Frontier --> Treasures of the Savage Frontier

Although Pool of Radiance is the best individual game, the Dragonlance/Krynn trilogy is collectively stronger than the quartet (or sextet, if you count the two Savage Frontier games) set in the Forgotten Realms.

 

[Daze]

Thx a lot. So the entry point is just Pool of Radiance ok.
With the dnd setting and the combat they look kinda interesting.

 

[Dorateen]

To further distinguish the Gold Box games, it should be noted that Curse of the Azure Bonds told a more personal story of the characters being enslaved by the titular brandings, and involved the party systematically winning their freedom. The Savage Frontier duology switched the tone of the adventure journals to be written from the perspective of the player characters, and utilized more insertion of the party members chiming in during events.

They nailed the Krynn setting so well, with the different moon cycles, red and white robed mage progression, clerics choosing a deity with special bonuses, the different knight orders, the spectacular draconian death effects; it is an entirely new experience from playing the Moonsea saga. I generally enjoy mid-level AD&D, so Death Knights of Krynn was a favorite, along with its abundance of side-questing.

Finally, Pools of Darkness is such a fun epic level romp, introducing new powerful spells, weapons (vorpal blade!), and bringing into the adventure the major demon types straight out of the Monster Manual.

 

[octavius]

What even is considered to be the best gold box game?
What is the one with the best combat?

Did they improve it over time?
Cause it all looks the same to me but i'm a noob i guess.

Pool of Radiance was the best designed one quest wise and for feeling most like the pen&paper version, but then it was the only to have "real" RPG designers from TSR working it.
Disregarding the Savage Frontier games which were a step back, I think the games did improve over time (although Secrets of the Silver Blades was a huge step back), with Dark Queen of Krynn, while having the weakest story and least tie-in with the books, provided the most evenly challenging combat of the GB games, and with some of the most challenging dungeons to map. Pools of Darkness was also very good, but more uneven difficulty wise, and with the mother of all final bosses.
Overall I think the Krynn series was the best one.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Combat changed minimally. Higher level more spells, items. Later games had more special attacks, defenses, and items. Savage frontier had enemies that could call for aid (mechanically it was like monster summoning). There was also timed evens where monsters would just join the combat as rounds went on if i recall correctly. In TDQOK i recall a fight where if you kept the gnomes alive you could potentially command snd move an army if paladin or knight had high charisma (probably knight). You'd have to dissect each one. Don't forget AOL Neverwinter Knights. I never played the Buck Rogers series. Maybe i missed out.

 

[octavius]

I never played the Buck Rogers series. Maybe i missed out.

The first one was pretty good, so I'd say you did.

 

[overly excitable young man]

And Roguey was completely right.
This here is an acceptable encounter in PoR.
Wouldn't mind if there weren't 10 encounters like that in the first Slums map alone.
Trash is the name and spamming sleep is the game.

Then these guys showed up and i thought stuff would change:

But in the end you just cast sleep and win.
And Good Bye Goldbox.
You saved me a lot of time. Thx for that.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Yeah, you can cheese the dead ends by search bumping them if you want to empty the map of randoms. At one time I had wrote out all the text for each section and checked each encounter with different player strengths and size. There was some interesting combinations. Best i could drum up was a Bugbear leader with a hoard for randoms though in the slums. It made the presets look puny tbh.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

Rather than speaking to the weaknesses of game, the fact that POR is in the discussion at all as one of the best TB isometric combat games speaks of the absolute lack of quality TB combat games. I think 2020 may well end being the best year on record for that, or maybe 2021.

 

[TemplarGR]

These extremely old games are a waste of time in 2020. I mean yeah, they are a piece of video games history, i get that, but why play them today? There are thousands of modern games to play that are better than this. Playing niche NES RPGs in 2020 means quite simply that you don't value your precious time on Earth.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Some of them still hold up while others didn't stand the test of time because of annoying design choices.
Calling Pool of Radiance niche is just plain wrong but yeah it's not fun to play in 2020.

 

[TemplarGR]

Some of them still hold up while others didn't stand the test of time because of annoying design choices.
Calling Pool of Radiance niche is just plain wrong but yeah it's not fun to play in 2020.

Contrary to popular belief here, these games were indeed niche even during the 80s. But i called them niche taking into consideration that 40 years have passed since then, so they are even more niche in the sense that you are literally the only person on this planet who plays them today.

 

[Thac0]

These extremely old games are a waste of time in 2020. I mean yeah, they are a piece of video games history, i get that, but why play them today? There are thousands of modern games to play that are better than this. Playing niche NES RPGs in 2020 means quite simply that you don't value your precious time on Earth.

The SNES has aged much better than the NES. There are like three NES games I still want to play in their original form, while half the SNES library is still completely servicable and often the best version of the game.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Some of them still hold up while others didn't stand the test of time because of annoying design choices.
Calling Pool of Radiance niche is just plain wrong but yeah it's not fun to play in 2020.

Contrary to popular belief here, these games were indeed niche even during the 80s. But i called them niche taking into consideration that 40 years have passed since then, so they are even more niche in the sense that you are literally the only person on this planet who plays them today.

Ok. How was Pool of Radiance niche if it spawned one of the biggest video game series of western rpgs?
You would have to argue that crpgs were niche back which is correct compared to console games.
But inside this niche genre the game was as mainstream as it gets.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

These extremely old games are a waste of time in 2020. I mean yeah, they are a piece of video games history, i get that, but why play them today? There are thousands of modern games to play that are better than this. Playing niche NES RPGs in 2020 means quite simply that you don't value your precious time on Earth.

The SNES has aged much better than the NES. There are like three NES games I still want to play in their original form, while half the SNES library is still completely servicable and often the best version of the game.

Geez! Leave us hanging here! What's the 3 games?

 

[Grauken]

These extremely old games are a waste of time in 2020. I mean yeah, they are a piece of video games history, i get that, but why play them today? There are thousands of modern games to play that are better than this. Playing niche NES RPGs in 2020 means quite simply that you don't value your precious time on Earth.

The SNES has aged much better than the NES. There are like three NES games I still want to play in their original form, while half the SNES library is still completely servicable and often the best version of the game.

Geez! Leave us hanging here! What's the 3 games?

Mega Man 1-6, Ninja Gaiden 1-3, Castlevania 1 and 3, Probotector 1-2, Zelda, ...

 

[Thac0]

These extremely old games are a waste of time in 2020. I mean yeah, they are a piece of video games history, i get that, but why play them today? There are thousands of modern games to play that are better than this. Playing niche NES RPGs in 2020 means quite simply that you don't value your precious time on Earth.

The SNES has aged much better than the NES. There are like three NES games I still want to play in their original form, while half the SNES library is still completely servicable and often the best version of the game.

Geez! Leave us hanging here! What's the 3 games?

Castlevania, Metroid. Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest count half each, since they have remakes on newer platforms which tend to be good, but change around a lot of stuff so playing the NES versions is still worth it.

Mega Man 1-6, Ninja Gaiden 1-3, Castlevania 1 and 3, Probotector 1-2, Zelda, ...

Never liked Zelda or Mega Man. Contra is good, never played Ninja Gaiden.