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Let us talk about Master of Orion

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
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Yiffing in Hell
Just finished 2 rounds of MoO2. I'm guessing creative is overpowered ? My technologically advance telepaths were mind controlling fools late game. The only combat loss I had was against the guardian, and that was early on in the game. Unification government's bonus to food and production was also pretty sweet. I'll try a 3rd game with something less broken. I'll probably get rid of creative and grab a tech bonus instead.

Anyway, I heard the 3rd was real :decline: ? Whats wrong with it though, in detail ?
 

DakaSha

Arcane
Joined
Dec 4, 2010
Messages
4,792
there is a multiplayer fan patch for moo2 which may help with the balance (i havent really tried it)
Ai is retarded either way though

Vanilla moo3 is a load of stupid retard shit. thats a pretty accurate description
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,285
Location
Poland
Creative is far from broken. Actually it never got picked when the MP scene was active. Why? Its way too expensive for what it gives - what it gives is a small advantage every few tech levels, important in the long run, yes, but in the short one or even in medium one not worth it.

In MP (and since AI isnt good anyway and human opponents are the only way to objectively measure each stat) production was the king of the hill, then there was research - but pure research not creative one.

On this MP mindset are based most broken builds, for example lithovre + democratic for highest possible research (+artifact homeworld) or unification + tolerant for the ultimate production extravaganza.

What you see as broken creative stat is simply the result of playing SP in an usual turtling way. With competitive opponents out for you from the first turns this build would be disastrously bad...
 

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
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Yiffing in Hell
I don't plan on playing MP, but still thanks for the advice. Any other games like MoO ? I don't if Alpha Centauri counts, but I'm already playing that as well. What about the 'Space Empire' series ?
 

Quilty

Magister
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Messages
2,413
I remember having a lot of fun with Imperium Galactica 2, but that was long ago and I don't remember much about the game. It was decently complex, if I'm remembering it right. I'm sure you could find more info or reviews on the webz.
 

Renegen

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2011
Messages
4,062
I prefer MOO1. The graphics might not be as good, but the action is faster and it's more about strategy. MOO2 just added too many features.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,426
Sincerely, try it without Creative next time. IMO, Creative is the popamole choice, it robs you of a chunk of gameplay: you no longer need to plan how to select your techs and how to trade stuff. Takes some planning on what techs you can do without and which you'll have to steal.

Anyway, I heard the 3rd was real :decline: ? Whats wrong with it though, in detail ?
The prolbem with MOO3 is that it looks good and promises so much... yet in reality the only thing you do is decide a few priorities and press the end turn button, watching the game play itself. It's a trade off, it makes you feel kinda like the ruler of an intergalactic empire, but, unfortunately, inot a lot of meaningful stuff to do at the very top.

There are mods out there that supposedly fix it (Vanilla, Straciatella, stuff like that), but I didn't try them.
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
Sigh. I've defended MoO3 way too many times to bother anymore. To be honest I prefer the third one to previous installments. It's just that it's basically a different game.

Pirate it, make sure you download the 1.25 patch (no sense playing without it) and consider getting one of the popular mod packs. I prefer my MoO3 experience to be as close to vanilla as possible but play some on 1.25 to get a grip of the mechanics, read what the mods do and decide for yourself. Read some of the strategy guides to get a clue of what the fuck are you doing or else you'll join one of the folks who claim it's an end-turn simulator. Incidentally most of these folks played one or two games at most at easier difficulty levels; any reasonable difficulty level results in getting your ass handed to you immediately unless you plan carefully. And the multiplayer can cause multiple sleepless nights if you get a couple of good players.

The game has quite a few design flaws but I can easily overlook that considering that there wasn't a game offering gameplay similar to MoO3's ever made.

MoO3 is on my all-time fav strategy games list. It's one of the most innovative and complex 4X games ever made. You just need to stop thinking it's a direct sequel to MoO2 to appreciate it. Folks who bash the game either just don't like macromanagement or couldn't (or didn't want to) understand what the game is about.

EDIT: Two tips: avoid orion senate victory condition and pick smaller maps. The former often can bring a game to an early and unsatisfactory end; starting on a too large map can make the game drag endlessly with civs having 200+ planets.

Two more tips: take a medium difficulty level and start out your first game with a non-gimmick race (ie. don't pick Silicoids, Klackons, Psilons etc. or any other race that requires proper understanding of how the development plans and DEA's work to be succesful). And whatever you do don't start with the Ithkul. Avoid Ithkul until you're a reasonably good players otherwise say hello to +300 ship fleets knocking on your anus at turn 150.

And fuck you, installing the game again ATM just because you guys brought it up. Fuck you, there goes the rest of my holiday.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,285
Location
Poland
I fully agree with Monocause: MoO2 is more of a Civ game in space while MoO3 is a completely different game, unrivaled in its complexity by any other big title ever (Aurora comes close, but you know, its DF in space). True, it tends to play itself... but on the other hand its the only game showing a glimpse of SCALE and issues that a galactic spanning empire would have to deal with.
 

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
5,972
Location
Yiffing in Hell
Alpha Centauri, Spaz, MoO2, Deus Ex 3, MoO3 and SE4. Looks like I'm set for the rest of my holidays. :salute: Monocause, thanks for the info, I'll check moo3 out.
 

JagreenLern

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
1,061
Location
Compton, California
MCA Project: Eternity
I've tried MoO3 before, never could get into it. What exactly would you say is good about it? I'm looking for a seriously detailed 4X, and I can't seem to get Aurora working right. Also, could you recommend any good sites to help someone get into it? I remember liking all the weird races, and would like to give the game another shot.
 

Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
Playing an uncreative race will yield some of the more interesting experiences in MoO2. It will be very difficult to win on the hardest difficulties but at normal or hard you should be fine. Some techs just have obvious choices (like automated factories) so it's interesting to use the other things on offer from time to time, while not being creative. It will also force you to be a little creative during ship design.
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
JagreenLern said:
I've tried MoO3 before, never could get into it. What exactly would you say is good about it? I'm looking for a seriously detailed 4X, and I can't seem to get Aurora working right. Also, could you recommend any good sites to help someone get into it? I remember liking all the weird races, and would like to give the game another shot.


I think I might do an LP soon so that it can serve as a point of reference whenever the subject shows up. Just don't expect me to finish it ;D I might go for a small map tightly packed with civs though, makes for some interesting gameplay.

To cut it short: what I love about the game is that it's the only one that ever gave me the feeling of controlling a huge, sprawling empire. As you start you can micromanage and keep track of everything that's happening. Every new planet is important. At some point however you can't keep up with micromanagement. You just have to learn to let go because microing 20 planets is a pain in the arse and you're sure to get at least 50-100 in a standard game. So you set up development plans for new planets and check on tax rates from time to time if need be. At some point you notice that most of your attention is driven towards diplomacy, foreign and internal policy, technology priorities and warfare. You get reports that planets have been colonised without your input, ships are being built, dozens of planetary improvements constructed every turn. Yet your enemies grow the same too so you must focus on looking for ways to gain an edge, especially if you know a neighbour isn't going to be friendly towards you long-term.

In one game I won by making quite a gambit. I knew that a neigbour is going to start a shitstorm soon and he was stronger than me. I was playing Nommo and they were Klackons - my tech advantage wasn't enough to make up for their production and pop growth, they carved a significantly bigger portion of the map than I did. They had literally thousands of ships waiting at my doorstep.

First thing I did was making everyone else friendly towards me and keeping the Klackons at bay by paying them tribute. I even gave them a couple of planets. In the meantime however my plan was to expel the Klackons from the senate and goad the senate into first embargoing them, then declaring war against them. At the same time I invaded them with spies of various kinds and (after diverting a shitton of resources towards Mathematics' research and sending some spies towards civs that were more advanced, signing research agreements) sent about 80% of my total ships to the Klackon capital but not through the starlanes - through the open space. The travel would take ~50 turns and my ships would be outdated by then but I counted on a quick victory and the fact that the Klackons were lagging behind me. To cut it short - I managed to break through their system defenses and take their capital along with a couple of the neighboring systems before they managed to sign some peace treaties with other aggressors and turned against me. They were, however, crippled and I managed to negotiate a very favorable peace treaty. Some 80-100 turns later I DOW'd them and conquered them system by system, planet by planet.

The point is - if it were not for the gambit I've made the Klackons would've raped me while my smart move made me the greatest power in the universe and victory was practically secured at that point. That's why I love this game.
 

Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
I'd be very interested to see a MoO3 LP. I've read a highly entertaining one a long time ago, but I can't remember where.
 

Marobug

Newbie
Joined
Sep 2, 2010
Messages
566
Renegen said:
I prefer MOO1. The graphics might not be as good, but the action is faster and it's more about strategy. MOO2 just added too many features.

How is moo1 more about strategy than moo2 ? Moo2 didn't have too many features, it was simple to play but complex in the right doses, it's almost the perfect strategy game imo
 

JagreenLern

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
1,061
Location
Compton, California
MCA Project: Eternity
Monocause said:
JagreenLern said:
I've tried MoO3 before, never could get into it. What exactly would you say is good about it? I'm looking for a seriously detailed 4X, and I can't seem to get Aurora working right. Also, could you recommend any good sites to help someone get into it? I remember liking all the weird races, and would like to give the game another shot.


I think I might do an LP soon so that it can serve as a point of reference whenever the subject shows up. Just don't expect me to finish it ;D I might go for a small map tightly packed with civs though, makes for some interesting gameplay.

To cut it short: what I love about the game is that it's the only one that ever gave me the feeling of controlling a huge, sprawling empire. As you start you can micromanage and keep track of everything that's happening. Every new planet is important. At some point however you can't keep up with micromanagement. You just have to learn to let go because microing 20 planets is a pain in the arse and you're sure to get at least 50-100 in a standard game. So you set up development plans for new planets and check on tax rates from time to time if need be. At some point you notice that most of your attention is driven towards diplomacy, foreign and internal policy, technology priorities and warfare. You get reports that planets have been colonised without your input, ships are being built, dozens of planetary improvements constructed every turn. Yet your enemies grow the same too so you must focus on looking for ways to gain an edge, especially if you know a neighbour isn't going to be friendly towards you long-term.

In one game I won by making quite a gambit. I knew that a neigbour is going to start a shitstorm soon and he was stronger than me. I was playing Nommo and they were Klackons - my tech advantage wasn't enough to make up for their production and pop growth, they carved a significantly bigger portion of the map than I did. They had literally thousands of ships waiting at my doorstep.

First thing I did was making everyone else friendly towards me and keeping the Klackons at bay by paying them tribute. I even gave them a couple of planets. In the meantime however my plan was to expel the Klackons from the senate and goad the senate into first embargoing them, then declaring war against them. At the same time I invaded them with spies of various kinds and (after diverting a shitton of resources towards Mathematics' research and sending some spies towards civs that were more advanced, signing research agreements) sent about 80% of my total ships to the Klackon capital but not through the starlanes - through the open space. The travel would take ~50 turns and my ships would be outdated by then but I counted on a quick victory and the fact that the Klackons were lagging behind me. To cut it short - I managed to break through their system defenses and take their capital along with a couple of the neighboring systems before they managed to sign some peace treaties with other aggressors and turned against me. They were, however, crippled and I managed to negotiate a very favorable peace treaty. Some 80-100 turns later I DOW'd them and conquered them system by system, planet by planet.

The point is - if it were not for the gambit I've made the Klackons would've raped me while my smart move made me tt power in the universe and victory was practically secured at that point. That's why I love this gamehe greates.

A MoO3 LP sounds like a fine idea. Could you perhaps put me in there as an Ithkul leader?
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
*reads Monocause post*

There's nothing else for me to play at the moment...
Let's see if GoG has MOO3...

Thanks friend. I never gave MoO3 a second look when I was young because my cousin was the richer one and he never bought the game. :(

*Edit: OH MY GOD IT'S TWICE THE PRICE OF MoO1 & 2?! WHAT THEFUFSKLFASLKAWJR
 

tindrli

Arcane
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
4,469
Location
Dragodol
RK47 said:
*reads Monocause post*

There's nothing else for me to play at the moment...
Let's see if GoG has MOO3...

Thanks friend. I never gave MoO3 a second look when I was young because my cousin was the richer one and he never bought the game. :(

*Edit: OH MY GOD IT'S TWICE THE PRICE OF MoO1 & 2?! WHAT THEFUFSKLFASLKAWJR


dont forget to install one of the MOD pack :salute:
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2006
Messages
28,396
Location
Not Here
Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
I really can't imagine why I would want to pay twice the price for a game that was hated by fans of the series.

*Thinks long and hard.*

I need to watch some youtube video of this shit in action.
 

Mantiis

Cipher
Joined
Jan 12, 2006
Messages
1,786
RK47 said:
I really can't imagine why I would want to pay twice the price for a game that was hated by fans of the series.

*Thinks long and hard.*

I need to watch some youtube video of this shit in action.
I hope you like videos of spreadsheets.
 

Shuma

Scholar
Joined
Feb 26, 2008
Messages
208
If you do play with mods (vanilla, boysenberry or whatever the fuck flavor they are), check out the Galactopedia for some helpful playing advice. Shuma's government guides are p. fucking sweet. :smug:
 

tindrli

Arcane
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
4,469
Location
Dragodol
ok. Mr.RK 47.. When are you starting lets play session???
 

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