Nosgoth - F2P multiplayer Legacy of Kain spinoff - CANCELLED

[Captain Crusade]

I don't mind multiplayer combat games but using Legacy of Kain for this is just
We have the same situation as Thiaf. If the old guys won't like it because it rapes the franchise and new guys don't even know the series then what is the point of using a well known name?

Marketing believes (correctly to a large extent) that using an established brand name generates more interest and thus more sales, simply because the brand name instigates more visibility, regardless of whether it is among old fags or newbies.

Not to mention that since the brand/ip is owned by the publisher they incur no cost for using it, but if they don't use it it incurs an opportunity cost while it collects dust.

Ultimately it is typically business and and bottom lines that ruin creative works, of art and otherwise. Thus the iodiom of many an artists fans, especially niche/cult artists, that the worst thing to happen to their beloved work of art was success.

 

[SoupNazi]

Why do games that are visually interesting ALWAYS lose all their charm when they are MMORPGs? If you look at KOTOR, it's visually very characteristic, has a certain interesting atmosphere, etc. Legacy of Kain series has one of the most amazing visuals and architecture I've ever seen in a game. As much as it is a shitty game otherwise, WoW is the only MMORPG that got the visuals right.

Both TOR and Nosgoth look visually generic, bland, boring, banal, shit. Why is this ??

 

[ERYFKRAD]

 

[Corporate_Jew_Master]

I got beta access lul.

Didnt this turn into a moba shitfest? Whats even the point?

 

[Darth Roxor]

so guises this gaem is p cool

 

[Xenich]

I don't mind multiplayer combat games but using Legacy of Kain for this is just
We have the same situation as Thiaf. If the old guys won't like it because it rapes the franchise and new guys don't even know the series then what is the point of using a well known name?

Still, if i treat it as a harmless spinoff i might have some fu

And there’s the microtransaction guff: new abilities and weapons all need to be purchased, meaning that the wealthiest players have access to the best toys

nope.

Give it time, this sounds like it is fucktardish, but then... a few years or more down the line the next new line of fucking idiot kids will be telling you this isn't PTW, this is... blah blah blah... "some random justification" blah blah blah.

 

[Darth Roxor]

it isnt pay to win tho

 

[Xenich]

it isnt pay to win tho

The abilities of both factions can be swapped out for new, thematically appropriate powers bought in the shop - either outright, for a ton of gold, or rented for seven days - and though they are initially flashy things that are just fun to mess around with, they eventually tie into clever tactics.

So something that leads to clever tactics purchasable through the store is not Pay To Win? Did I miss the newest definition change on Pay To Win? What is the new excuse condition that makes it not Pay To Win?

 

[Darth Roxor]

most of the default abilities are ok out of the bawks, and you don't have to pay real geld to unlock them - less than a week of casual play gets you enough in-game $$$ to get something permanently, and there's not even that much useful shit to unlock, particularly if you spec in only 2 or sth classes

 

[Xenich]

most of the default abilities are ok out of the bawks, and you don't have to pay real geld to unlock them - less than a week of casual play gets you enough in-game $$$ to get something permanently, and there's not even that much useful shit to unlock, particularly if you spec in only 2 or sth classes

So your premise is that it is not PTW because you think the abiltities are "ok" or not that useful in your opinion and can be earned in game anyway? You just made subjective excuses that do not counter the point of it being PTW. /shrug

 

[Darth Roxor]

idk bro im pwning scrubs like mad and i havent unlocked shit yet permanently

and yes, if the default abilities are ok and others can be earned in-game anyway, that is in fact not pay to win

 

[Xenich]

idk bro im pwning scrubs like mad and i havent unlocked shit yet permanently

and yes, if the default abilities are ok and others can be earned in-game anyway, that is in fact not pay to win

What does being able to earn it in game have to do with pay to win? Pay to win means... to pay money to circumvent game play. A game being a set of obstacles, objectives, etc... constrained by rules. To win a game is to successfully navigate those obstacles, objectives, etc... So, when someone pays real money to bypass those obstacles, objectives, etc... they are "paying to win", rather than earning through game play. That is the definition of Pay to win, no matter how many people decide they want to change it to make themselves feel better about their choice to partake in it.

So, the fact that you "pwning da scrubs lik mad bro" has nothing to do with the fact that any idiot can use real money to circumvent game play. Also, your opinion on what is acceptable in terms of the games skills also is irrelevant to the point of its definition.

I mean, lik bro, can you dig wat im sayun yo? /boggle

 

[Darth Roxor]

You have a fundamentally different definition of 'pay to win' then. To me, p2w means either some options are completely unavailable to freebie players and very obviously superior, or the payable options can be obtained for free in theory, but in practice the hurdles placed before that are so abysmal you might as well not even bother. Nosgoff doesn't really have either of these.

 

[Xenich]

You have a fundamentally different definition of 'pay to win' then. To me, p2w means either some options are completely unavailable to freebie players and very obviously superior, or the payable options can be obtained for free in theory, but in practice the hurdles placed before that are so abysmal you might as well not even bother. Nosgoff doesn't really have either of these.

I am using the definition, you are misusing the definition to fit your own subjective means. Even as an idiom, PTW does not fit your position as PTW differs greatly from one subjective groups definition to the next, so there is no basic social standard to term such as an accepted form of slang like "cool" or "dope". So all that is achieved is pointless narcissistic means to establish meaning which is never consistent and always confusing. Since language exist to achieve communication, it would seem prudent that one use words that are either correctly established by standards of definition, are at least socially accepted idioms, or are logical derivatives of the core words and context of their use.

Pay to Win first evolved from people "paying" real money to "circumvent" game play. As I said, wining as it pertains to the use means to overcome such obstacles, etc... This definition as I explained is its most basic form of understanding for both the words and the context it is applied. When you have to use "what it means to me", you have lost purpose and might as well say "Potatoes", "Car", "Flower", or "Potty" instead of "Pay to Win" as they would all equally provide the same relevance of purpose when such liberty is taken.

I would hope that you could see the absurdity of the constant Alinksy like adaptions of the phrase and notice that its main purpose in such is to avoid having to deal with the activity actually being what it is properly termed as. When one makes up definitions in a defense as you have, it is no surprise one would find them to be of such fitting use.

So again, as I said, you can do "what it means to me" all you like, you can change out any word you want, but make no mistake that it won't matter what it means to you, it only matters what it actually means and that meaning is not your definition.

 

[Luckra]

2/3 of this thread is a pseudo-debate about the definition of p2w but is there any actual point to play this?

 

[Xenich]

2/3 of this thread is a pseudo-debate about the definition of p2w but is there any actual point to play this?

Well... here is a gameplay vid:



Looks pretty retarded console crap to me. I mean, you can see outlines of everyone through walls and structures? Seriously? Yeah, really skillful pvp. Its a frag fuckfest.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Can the human players use melee? That is all I need to know.

 

[SerratedBiz]

Middle mouse button launches a melee attack for hoomans, yeah.

 

[Gerrard]

You forgot the tag.

You have a fundamentally different definition of 'pay to win' then.

Yeah, he's an idiot, in case you haven't noticed.

 

[Darth Roxor]

I am using the definition

*The* definition? Yeah, no.

2/3 of this thread is a pseudo-debate about the definition of p2w but is there any actual point to play this?

It's pretty fun if you get a few bros and coordinate properly, but I would strongly advise against playing with randoms. It's one of those games where teamwork and reacting quickly to incoming enemies is crucial as hell, and randoms are simply incapable of doing that. Plus, even if you do get matched with some better people, the game doesn't have any means of quick communication other than the in-game chat, you can't even press a button to mark a dude like in Tribes: Ascend or yell out UT-style incomings and shit. It can be pretty frustrating to play alone.

you can see outlines of everyone through walls and structures?

only your allies

Can the human players use melee? That is all I need to know.

Si, but it's so crap you don't really want to use it.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

Why does every thread in MMO subforum have to be about Xenich and his p2w butthurt D:

 

[Xenich]

Why does every thread in MMO subforum have to be about Xenich and his p2w butthurt D:

Because there are a lot of people who PTW and feel the need to make up stupid excuses of why their acceptance of it is not really that?

 

[Xenich]

I am using the definition

*The* definition? Yeah, no.

Well, you see... "The"... What it means to me is that when I use it, it means that I have defined it properly. That is what it means to me, and because facts are things that are whatever I decide they are... because it is what it means to me, I am correct! /derp /derp

 

[Phage]

Please move thread to General Gaming. This is a team based third person shooter. It's a pretty neat one too, that will hopefully git gud with future content updates.

I started playing the other day because I bought the mega Legacy of Kain bunduru on Steam a while back and got the Nosgoth founder's pack for free. This game honestly has very, very tame monetization. Everything meaningful is fully obtainable with gold. The starter loadouts/classes are competitive, and you can permanently buy any weapon/perk in about 15-20 matches, or rent them for a week after 1-2 matches. Playing with the daily perks they give you for free is fine unless you're MLGPRO as they seem to all be roughly balanced. The abilities are clearly intended to be sidegrades, but in practice, some are almost always better than others (easy example, the AoE poison for the reavers is way stronger than the AoE blind in practice)

The only actual meaningful upgrades are the rare items, which are supposed to also be sidegrade since you get +stats and -stats on each. You can't actually buy those to my knowledge, they are only obtained from leveling the classes and as random 'drops' at the end of each match. There is supposed to be an upcoming crafting system to enchant your weapons. Hopefully they let you use (or, preferably force you to use) gold for this.

If anything I'm wondering how they're even making money. All I can think of are maybe people buying the (honestly quite cheap) gold+exp boosters.

I don't know who would actually buy the skins. People like funny or SOCOOL skins that this game doesn't have at all since it's trying to keep the aesthetic consistent. Only the impatient will actually drop money.

So yeah, stop being edgy faggots and try the game if you enjoy teambased shooters trying something new. Or don't. Either way, get this shit out of MMORPG discussion.

 

[Norfleet]

Being so-cheap makes some amount of sense, really. When people see a big number, they'll balk at it, but they don't tend to think in the long-term, so if you boil them like frogs, they'll end up dropping a lot in the end.

I see this a lot in various MMOs: I'll look at the pricetag for something, calculate out exactly what this would really cost to achieve an actual useful goal, point this out to the people in the channel, and promptly be told that I'm nuts. But math never lies.