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OnLive is sooooooooo awsum

Xi

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ever said:
Do you realize that (ballpark numbers here) porting is something that takes like a team of 4 great programmers working around the clock maybe two months to do?

I think one of Blizzard's biggest names Sam Latinga got his job cause he developed a framework known as SDL that would allow multiplatform development for open source projects.

You're just going to get egg in your face. Shall I quote the Onlive shit some more? Shall you ignore that Dell is partnered with Onlive, that Nvidia has Cloud computing GPUs, and that AT&T gave them close to a billion dollars? They've ported 20 games so far with more to come. For fuck's sake.

This is why I left tech. I got sick of dealing with this shit. lol
 

Twinkle

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People like to own the shit they buy. Onlive is the antithesis to that. There is some hope.

Tell this to 25 million steamtards.

You can sell any piece of shit as long as you have a fine financial backup and a good marketing team. Thousands of examples prove that. And if the house of cards falls down it will be too late for sheeple to complain.
 

Angthoron

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Yeah, I can see Nvidia being interested in dropping out of the GPU race and going under.
 

MetalCraze

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Xi said:
This is just the computing side, the graphics would be handled in another rack by another server.
Just for $5 a month? :lol:
Also rendering graphics on another server will cause the game to work at what? 1 FPS?

You could stack 15-20 of these on top of one another in a server rack, put it in the corner and only take up a small 3x3 space. If you do the math on the the above statement, you'd realize that in a small 3x3 space you could do the computing for probably 5,000 people.
5000 people? 50 people at best while costing literally shittons of money.
Why?

Each C6100 has 4 Nodes, each node has 2 6-core processors with 192GB of RAM.(Now multiply that times 20, then put 1000 of these in a server farm.)
An average Xbawks360 game uses 2-3 cores. Do the math.
Now multiply cost of all this by 20 and then by 1000 and tell me how the fuck can it cost 5 bucks a month per person coupled with a megaton of other bills?
Or are they getting all hardware, bandwidth, games, software, licenses, tech support, buildings, etc^1000 for free? Just how fucking naive are you?

Plus, this is totally scalable. They can install the next version whenever it is released. I don't think you have a clue what you're talking about. ;P
For the whole first year of usage for free (while they still have to churn out millions of money)? Yeah sounds financially possible.

Also, these aren't running windows 7, they are running something else entirely.
Which is?


Steve Perlman said:
some Dell cocksucking/working for sponsor's money
Yeah because Dell also makes software and hardware besides installing it or putting its logo on it.

So basically, the hardware listed above isn't quite the same shit, onlive has the next level of hardware designed specifically for what they are doing. That should give you an idea.
By whom? Can you tell me?

Xi said:
Shall you ignore that Dell is partnered with Onlive
So? Same as if NewEgg is partnered with OnLive.

that Nvidia has Cloud computing GPUs
They don't. Tesla is a math processor, nothing more.

and that AT&T gave them close to a billion dollars?
Yeah just like that, not expecting any return at all. They just gave these to da people for free!

They've ported 20 games so far with more to come. For fuck's sake.
Ported to where? And where did they get all the fucking money?

You don't understand anything in tech, do you?
 

ever

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Xi said:
Shall you ignore that Dell is partnered with Onlive, that Nvidia has Cloud computing GPUs, and that AT&T gave them close to a billion dollars? They've ported 20 games so far with more to come.

What on earth does DELL, Tesla GPUs and AT&T have to do with "how do I compile C onto this thing?"

If they have indeed ported 20 games and its a completely new platform then good for them. I for one am impressed they were able to create a bug free compiler, create a mini OS, port common languages libraries to their platform, secure device drivers, then port millions of lines of code to a totally new framework and do all that so quickly.

But tell you what I strongly doubt this is the case and I wouldn't be surprised if just some sort of -nix with some MS licenses.

Man not even google THE cloud computing company create their own OS for the phone market, they just take Linux and tweak it.
 

Twinkle

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Angthoron said:
Yeah, I can see Nvidia being interested in dropping out of the GPU race and going under.

Nvidia makes most of their revenue from professional market. It clearly shows that Fermi architecture wasn't home user focused.
 

ever

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MetalCraze said:
Also, these aren't running windows 7, they are running something else entirely.
Which is?

Their own OS. Which they made from scratch with no use of the linux kernel or propriety licenses. Don't you understand these onlive people aren't just regular humans but some kind of half men half machine deities.
 

Xi

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http://blog.wolfire.com/2010/06/Thoughts-on-OnLive
Thoughts on OnLive
20 comments By Jeff on June 18th, 2010
Today OnLive officially launched. If you haven't heard of it, OnLive is an ambitious new gaming service with a unique proposition: instead of downloading and running games traditionally on your computer, you run the games on their remote data centers and they stream the audiovisual output to your computer. Regardless of whether or not it works in your area, whether the proposition is attractive to you, or even if you are interested in the gaming industry at all -- I think OnLive is worth paying attention to.


It is real!
When it was first announced, it was met with incredulity from pretty much everyone, especially from game journalists and game developers. Most stories about it inevitably focused on how unbelievable it is and how it's at least several years too early -- the infrastructure couldn't possibly support it. OnLive's heavy optimism combined with their policy of secrecy definitely gave off the fumes of vaporware. If their product was so great, why not let it speak for itself?

Well, today the veil and all media embargoes have been lifted. I have been part of the beta program, and have been playing it on my MacBook Pro and PC pretty extensively, so I thought I'd add my two cents. First of all, let me start with the most important point: this is the real deal. It's not perfect, but at least for beta users in San Francisco, it works pretty well.

At the very least, OnLive serves as a proof of concept that some of the most ambitious, computationally intensive software applications can be virtualized and streamed in real-time at extremely low latencies. What this means for the game industry and consumers is even more fascinating though.

How does it work?

The actual OnLive app for Mac OS X is an 8 MB executable. You launch it, type in your username and password, and hit connect. OnLive authenticates your user account and begins to perform some network tests.


Connecting to OnLive
On my computer, OnLive sends out requests to several different IPs, ending up in servers in various data centerss before deciding on one to use. I assume it is performing some kind of network diagnostics to figure out which route to which server is optimal for my location. For me (Comcast in San Francisco) the client chooses the Santa Clara data center, which is on average a 14 ms round trip for any given packet.


A successful connection to OnLive, adapted from the OS X activity monitor. Note that after the peak, OnLive is using 700KB/sec.
According to a naive glance at the Mac OS X Activity Monitor, OnLive opens a massive, HD stream of 700k/sec (about 5.5 megabits).

Hold on a second... 700k/sec? While people in South Korea, Japan, or many parts of Europe may take that sort of bandwidth for granted (or even orders of magnitude more than that, for granted), in the United States, that is a big deal. I have the cheapest, residential Comcast plan possible -- nothing special. So how is this possible? I'll go into that later in this post.

On the other hand, I tried it at a friend's house who has ADSL from AT&T. Even though she only lives a mile away from me, she barely can visit YouTube on her poor connection. Needless to say, OnLive didn't even let me log in with those conditions.


Trying to log in on a sub-standard connection.
A common point of skepticism for OnLive goes something like this: 700k/sec seems unbelievable. Normally, I'm happy to download at around 150k/sec! Also isn't this costing OnLive a fortune in bandwidth fees? There's no way it can be viable right?

If you are not familiar with content delivery network technology, like Akamai, then that does seem like a deathblow to OnLive. However, here's another way to think about it:

How much does it cost to transfer 100 GB at 100 megabits/second to your roommate's computer? How about a terabyte? A petabyte? The answer is about $10: this cost of a standard Cat5 Ethernet cable.

Now how about to your neighbor one room over in the apartment complex or in a college dorm? Depending on how the network is set up, your packets may not even leave the building and you will be transferring at 100 megabits right on an internal network.

Now how about transferring to the building across the street? If you are both on the same network provider, it's likely that you can still transfer extremely fast. By doing a traceroute, you'll likely see that you are only a few routers away from the other person.

Just like the $10 CAT5 cable in the first example, none of these transfers really cost anyone anything. The infrastructure has already been placed. Any fees that may be incurred are the companies amortizing their initial infrastructure investment. In many cases, it's simply marketing: sort of like how phone companies may charge you $0.25 per 60 byte text message, while letting you call someone across the country for free (using the bandwidth of tens of thousands of text messages). Data centers typically charge you for a direct pipe to the internet, for example, you simply reserve a 1 gigabit/second connection, and you are not metered by the gigabyte.

The real problem comes when you try to go through underdeveloped infrastructure. For example, there are only a handful of routers between me and the Santa Clara data center. However, if I do a traceroute to the same data center from my friend's ADSL modem, it balloons to twice as many routers. The more networks you have to pass through, the more likely it is to hit a bottleneck.

OnLive seems to be addressing this by having many geographic data centers and by striking deals with various ISPs. They are very tightlipped about the specifics. All I can really say is that "it works for me", at least under the light beta load -- we may soon find out if it works on a larger scale.

How is the latency?

This will definitely depend on where you are and how good your connection to an OnLive data center is. The Santa Clara OnLive data center responds to a ping from me in San Francisco on Comcast in about 14 ms, so I am assuming the latency of the display is roughly that, plus a few more milliseconds for their compression algorithm.

It is definitely noticeable, but I quickly got used to it. I played through the entirety of F.E.A.R. 2 with this latency and it didn't bother me. However, if you have a local copy of F.E.A.R. 2 running and switch back and forth, it takes a moment to adjust to the OnLive version.

Remember when LCD screens first came out and they initially had latency? Some screens even sported a gamer mode that would make the screen more responsive when enabled. OnLive feels like playing on one of those TVs -- it is most definitely playable for me, but if you're used to zero latency, it will feel weird.

Something that was interesting to me is that when I first heard about OnLive, I thought it would be perfect for games like World of Goo while FPS games would be unplayable. After having actually tried it, I find the opposite to be true. Games where you need to track a cursor are very difficult to control with any latency, while I found it easier to get into 3D games like Batman, Borderlands, and F.E.A.R. 2.

Another interesting thing is that OnLive doesn't let you use a wifi connection, although this is supposed to be coming eventually. You must be connected with ethernet. I was a little peeved at this, so I tried a pretty simple experiment. I set up an Airport Express to join my wireless network and then ran an ethernet cord to the Airport. This added about a 4 ms latency and caused some jitter when packets were dropped, so I can see why they want you to plug in for the launch.

How do games look?

This is another contentious issue. A game looks like a 720p video of the game. It is nearly as good as the real thing, but obviously the compression is lossy, so it's not perfect.

It's really easy to tell in a game like World of Goo, which has very precise 2d art. However, in 3d games, the compression is much harder to notice, since the textures are not so precise.


World of Goo on OnLive versus native.
When I looked at F.E.A.R. 2, I made a weird discovery -- the OnLive version is definitely not running at maximum detail as I had originally assumed. I asked OnLive about this and they said that they don't necessarily max out the settings, they choose what they feel is a good balance.


F.E.A.R. 2 on OnLive versus the F.E.A.R. 2 demo on my PC at max settings. I was trying to show the OnLive video compression, but it turns out that some of the quality settings are set to the defaults, so it's not too useful (although that fact is interesting).
It is hard to describe exactly what the algorithm is doing, and screenshots are not too useful, since taking one frame of a video is sort of misleading.

What's the point?

So we've established that OnLive is really, really hard to do, but seems to work quite well (via Comcast in San Francisco during the beta, at least). But why bother in the first place? Why is this such a big deal?

Hardware is no longer relevant

The main feature seems to be that OnLive removes the user's hardware from the equation. No matter how obsolete your computer may become, you can count on it being able to play the latest AAA title. The implications of this are massive.

Furthermore, OnLive could theoretically publish games that even the latest desktop computers couldn't reasonably play.

OnLive is its own self contained platform

You "port" a PC game to OnLive and it gets sold to OnLive clients. However, the OnLive platform runs on Mac OS X and Windows, and soon, independently on your TV. At E3, OnLive demoed it running on the iPad.

Mac OS X users now get access to a ton of games that they wouldn't have otherwise. If OnLive creates a Linux client, that will be even more dramatic: Linux users who traditionally are lucky to see a AAA title per half decade would suddenly be treated to a buffet of games.

Of course, as you might imagine, some publishers are not too happy about this:


Mac users are greeted to this when they try to buy Mass Effect 2.
From the OnLive FAQ

Unfortunately, because of licensing restrictions, we can only offer Mass Effect 2 for play under Windows. So, if you do not have access to a PC, your only option to play it on a Mac is under Windows using Boot Camp or a similar system. We apologize for the inconvenience. OnLive has no other games in the pipeline that are Windows-only, and we do not expect to have any others.

This is ridiculous on so many levels and a great example of why OnLive is so fascinating and controversial. I might be able to virtualize OnLive in Parallels, so that I would be playing Mass Effect 2 through OnLive on Windows running inside of Parallels virtualized on Mac OS X. It feels bad enough when publishers don't make the effort to support Mac OS X and Linux, the fact that EA has actually gone out of their way to make ME2 inacessible to Mac OnLive users is worth examining in its own blog post.

Games are completely sandboxed

It is a weird feeling to have a game running, not just in a sandbox, but on an entirely different computer. The result is that even though you have 32 bots running around, with tons of explosions and other things that might bring your computer to its knees, OnLive always uses the exact same resources. The result is that you can cmd-tab out of a game at any point, run it inside of a window, resize the window in real-time, and pause the game no matter what is happening.

We take it for granted that you can do things like watch movies on your computer while chatting with friends, answering emails, or writing code. However, when you are playing a AAA game, it typically takes significant effort to pause the game and tab to another window (if that is even possible). With OnLive all games are good citizens: you can easily pause the game (no matter what is happening) and you can always instantly cmd-tab out of it, or run it in a window to start with.

In fact, you can even encode video, install things in the background, compile code, and perform other tasks that would normally be impossible while playing a game simultaneously. Depending on the task, you may introduce some latency into OnLive. I was able to encode a video while playing a game and it seemed to be fine, but while capturing the screen using Screen Flow for the video below, I definitely overloaded my MacBook Pro and added a bit of latency to OnLive.

Demos are painless

For this post, I wanted to do some side-by-side comparison screenshots with Unreal Tournament 3. I don't own the game, so I figured I would get the demo. Let's see how that turned out:

I had to Google around for "Unreal Tournament 3 demo" and do some research. I found a few demo links from various sites, but they appeared to be the beta version. The seventh or so result on Google looked pretty legitimate: UT3 on the NVIDIA site.

I started the 758 MB download (not bad -- the Batman and F.E.A.R. 2 demos weigh in at 2 GB). A 30 minute download later and I'm in business!

I ran the installer. First, it had to self-extract the highly compressed installer assets (maybe 5 minutes). I had to baby-sit the installer by agreeing to the EULA and hit next a few times. Unfortunately, Windows was installing an update in the background -- I had to restart my PC and try again. Another 5 minutes to launch and re-extract the installer data files and manually begin the install.

Even more babysitting was necessary during the install process, when it wanted to install a version of PhysX as well. Not a big deal, it just forces you to monitor the install, instead of letting it complete in the background.

Finally -- everything finished installing successfully.

I ran the UT3 demo, and I wish I was joking, but I got an error message saying that the UT3 demo has been tampered with and cannot run. I failed to successfully run it at all.

Compare to OnLive:

Well, I'll let this YouTube video do the talking. :) This video shows the complete launch of OnLive from a cold start to entering the demo of UT3. Note that this video isn't meant to demo OnLive's graphics (it looks kind of weird after being compressed by OnLive, Screen Flow, and then again by YouTube) or my rusty UT3 skills!


"Installing" and running the UT3 demo in OnLive in seconds.
Oh, I forgot to mention something else: UT3 doesn't actually exist on Mac OS X!

To be fair, I also tried the Batman and F.E.A.R. 2 demos on my PC. These were much easier to get through Steam despite the 2 GB download sizes, and there were no installer issues. Granted, Batman didn't run well on my PC due to system requirements, but F.E.A.R. 2 was great.

Software as a service

As a "software as a service" application, OnLive has a huge amount of flexibility on what it can do. For example, it is possible to buy 3-5 day passes for games at a hugely discounted price. Steam and other more traditional distributors can't do this unless they load up the games with tremendous DRM. OnLive can do it effortlessly. They also let you play most games for 30 minutes for free (currently, as many times as you want).

The flipside is that you have absolutely no ownership of games. See Stallman's warning about software as a service. This is basically a free software nightmare: you run a small proprietary portal into a world of completely closed applications. The only window between you and your games is a proprietary audiovisual stream.

I have a feeling this is going to be such a contentious issue it is probably worth a separate blog post about it, but I am finding it hard to be unhappy about it because as a consumer you inherently know what you are getting when you use OnLive. It is completely intuitive that you are not the owner of the game and you are playing it through a thin-client. It's akin to watching something on pay-per-view, instead of buying a DVD. The DVD will often have all sorts of EULA and onerous DRM which tries to bully you into making it as similar to the pay-per-view experience as possible. When you watch something on PPV, you typically have no expectations that you own it, so it is not even an issue.

Indie friendly?

World of Goo and Dejobaan's AaaaaAAaaaAAAaaAAAAaAAAAA!!! are already on the service as launch titles, which is a good sign. I briefly talked to OnLive at GDC and the impression I got is that they definitely want indie games, but they have limited resources so can only sign up a few at a time. We'll see if they let Overgrowth or Lugaru on.

Final thoughts

I think that OnLive is the most impressive demo of cloud computing to date. Video games are pretty much the most intensive kinds of desktop applications out there, stressing every part of a computer's hardware and requiring updates in real-time. The fact that OnLive has apparently tackled this beast pretty well opens a ton of possibilities.

I (and probably other people) were under the impression that OnLive was going to have a grand opening today, but it looks like they will be in fact having a more modest opening, letting people in slowly on a first come first serve basis.

If you sign up for their "founding members program" you'll get an email explaining:

There are a limited number of available Accounts in each region of the contiguous United States. Founding Member Waiting List registrants deemed eligible for the Offer will be sent email invitations in the order that valid sign- ups were received in regions that become available.

What do you think about OnLive and cloud gaming? Is it going to be a sea of change in how we play games, or will it burn out its investor funding before it takes off?
 

Kingston

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I lack the wit to put something hilarious here
Tell this to 25 million steamtards.


You can sell any piece of shit as long as you have a fine financial backup and a good marketing team. Thousands of examples prove that. And if the house of cards falls down it will be too late for sheeple to complain.

There's a difference here. This shit requires a subscription fee! Do you think you'll find 25 million people who will pay 15 dollars a month to play rented games?

Onlive provides no real benefits for the customer. It looks exactly like a service born in the minds of publishers. The customer doesn't get to own the game, he is at the mercy of the service. If it goes down people can't play their games. Even Steam let's you keep the data on your PC, let's you modify the files and so forth. I don't know a single person who wants to get rid of discs, or who wants to pay a monthly subscription for anything other than an MMO.

Hardware and games also get cheaper over time. Would someone pay 180 dollars a year to play games they have to buy? In two years you'd already have easily gone over the price of an Xbox360 or good PC hardware. Not to mention the fact that you can't play motion control games aka the Wii, which has the biggest base of gamers (besides, Nintendo would never let Onlive port their games).

What problems does Onlive solve? By the time it is capable of streaming games without any lag and without compressed looking graphics, hardware will be a lot cheaper. Games aren't going to get all that much more graphically intensive, as developing such games would cost a shitload of time and money for little gain, so hardware will be cheaper as it's not pushing the envelope anymore. And I bet in a few years there will be an open-source project that will let you stream games and files from your home computer to your other devices, all you have to do is buy some bandwidth - and voila, Onlive is destroyed.

Edit: Also, your "you can sell any shit if you have financial backing and good marketing" is total bullshit. For the most recent example, look at Kinect and Move. They will flop in epic fashion.
 

Angthoron

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Kingston said:
Edit: Also, your "you can sell any shit if you have financial backing and good marketing" is total bullshit. For the most recent example, look at Kinect and Move. They will flop in epic fashion.

Heh, and there's always Daikatana.
 

MetalCraze

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ever said:
MetalCraze said:
Also, these aren't running windows 7, they are running something else entirely.
Which is?

Their own OS. Which they made from scratch with no use of the linux kernel or propriety licenses. Don't you understand these onlive people aren't just regular humans but some kind of half men half machine deities.

Which also get technology from the future (no seriously having one server to do calculations and store games, while another one to do graphics? Haha fucking hell - imagine the hugeass time it will take to move the needed data from server 1 to server 2's videocard - game running at 1 FPS will be a miracle).

Actually I have a more realistic explanation.

OnLive is just a hoax to make lots of money off of naive sheeple between a few big corporations, while investing next-to-nothing.

So far we've seen 3 stages:

Stage 1: Hype.
They will hire a few blogs nobody knows about, a few "experts" nobody ever heard about that will write or tell to media that OnLive is totally real. While actually telling absolutely nothing about the tech or financial side.
It. Just. Works.

Stage 2: Showing the technology in "action"
Except the server is 2 meters away and it has the common hardware and software. They just use the terminal setup to stream desktop screenshots from the server to the current PC.
Or just use pre-recorded video, while pretending that they play something (and then before the game actually starts boom disconnect! And then they just show pre-recorded videos of games, like 100 of games are actually running on a single server). Like in the recent iPad rigged demonstration.

Stage 3: Making last sheeple to believe (the current stage)
Signing up opens. Except it is available only for a very few people - which means that they've actually got about 10 or 20 servers to create a visibility of OnLive working. As a result these few people will write that OnLive is real, although the visual quality is shit and it lags like hell but it's real. Causing it to look like OnLive is a reality and they have hugeass buildings stuffed with million dollars worth of hardware and software - and they give it all out very cheap ($5) - they just need some more beta testing to make it ideal. The easiest way to make sheeple do something is to tell them that they will get something that costs millions of dollars for free.
By sheeple I of course mean brainless morons, which are legion.

Now the most likely way it will go next:
OnLive ends its beta test for select few and starts selling subscriptions and games. Sheeple buy it all en masse. Suddenly Balmer says it's a failed experiment and OnLive goes down under (in a way of HellGate London with its subscriptions, except on a larger scale). You can't sue anyone, because you can sue noone. Your money is gone, poof!
A few lucky corporations count their easily earned money.

Jigawatt said:
Xi said:
They aren't assigning CPUs to users, they are rendering/processing everything as a giant fucking cluster

I'm not going to weigh in on the debate, but I read this as "processing everything as a giant cluster fuck" and the parallel computing programmer in me smiled

The biggest lol is that Xi says it like making a game work like you want it to depends on hardware, not on the game's code, which will require massive rewriting.
 

Kingston

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I lack the wit to put something hilarious here
At the very least, OnLive serves as a proof of concept that some of the most ambitious, computationally intensive software applications can be virtualized and streamed in real-time at extremely low latencies.
"At the least" - does that mean "currently"?

On the other hand, I tried it at a friend's house who has ADSL from AT&T. Even though she only lives a mile away from me, she barely can visit YouTube on her poor connection. Needless to say, OnLive didn't even let me log in with those conditions.
Reminds me of when Blizzard said that no one plays LAN anymore.

OnLive seems to be addressing this by having many geographic data centers and by striking deals with various ISPs. They are very tightlipped about the specifics. All I can really say is that "it works for me", at least under the light beta load -- we may soon find out if it works on a larger scale.
Why are they tight-lipped? Perhaps because the deals aren't all working out as they hoped?

It is definitely noticeable, but I quickly got used to it. I played through the entirety of F.E.A.R. 2 with this latency and it didn't bother me. However, if you have a local copy of F.E.A.R. 2 running and switch back and forth, it takes a moment to adjust to the OnLive version.

...

Games where you need to track a cursor are very difficult to control with any latency, while I found it easier to get into 3D games like Batman, Borderlands, and F.E.A.R. 2.
Console games play better on Onlive. You know why? Because playing with controllers means that your aiming is slow, which is why you won't notice the lag as much.

Another interesting thing is that OnLive doesn't let you use a wifi connection, although this is supposed to be coming eventually.
Yes, that is very *interesting*. I think the blogger wants to say something negative but can't quite manage it.

When I looked at F.E.A.R. 2, I made a weird discovery -- the OnLive version is definitely not running at maximum detail as I had originally assumed. I asked OnLive about this and they said that they don't necessarily max out the settings, they choose what they feel is a good balance.
Great, so it doesn't even run at max settings. What the fuck is the point, then? I thought the idea was that you could run graphically intensive games without having to buy all that expensive hardware. If it's not at max settings, it doesn't need the newest hardware.

I was trying to show the OnLive video compression, but it turns out that some of the quality settings are set to the defaults, so it's not too useful (although that fact is interesting).
Again, by *interesting* do you mean shit?

The main feature seems to be that OnLive removes the user's hardware from the equation. No matter how obsolete your computer may become, you can count on it being able to play the latest AAA title.
But it doesn't run it at max settings!

Furthermore, OnLive could theoretically publish games that even the latest desktop computers couldn't reasonably play.
How could it possibly do that if it can't even manage max settings?

If OnLive creates a Linux client, that will be even more dramatic: Linux users who traditionally are lucky to see a AAA title per half decade would suddenly be treated to a buffet of games.
I'm having a hard time seeing Linux users, who are proponents of free, open-source software having anything to do with this.

The flipside is that you have absolutely no ownership of games. See Stallman's warning about software as a service. This is basically a free software nightmare: you run a small proprietary portal into a world of completely closed applications. The only window between you and your games is a proprietary audiovisual stream.
Exactly.

Unfortunately, because of licensing restrictions, we can only offer Mass Effect 2 for play under Windows. So, if you do not have access to a PC, your only option to play it on a Mac is under Windows using Boot Camp or a similar system.
Lolz!

Some of the stuff sounds good, but for the most part, it's kinda underwhelming. I don't see much of a point in subscribing to it.
 

ever

Scholar
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
886
MetalCraze said:
Which also get technology from the future (no seriously having one server to do calculations and store games, while another one to do graphics? Haha fucking hell - imagine the hugeass time it will take to move the needed data from server 1 to server 2's videocard - game running at 1 FPS will be a miracle).
wtf for real?

Imagine the netcode that every single function, class, library ever used in and by any game would need to have added to it or the scientamagic compiler that would need to exist for seperating graphics and processing and then moving it from one server to another to even be thinkable.

What is that like 90,000 Michael Abrash hours worth of coding?

Last I checked Abrash was working on a somewhat similar concept trying to get the Larrabee (which is all on the one piece of silicon) working decently and that got canned cause it wasn't competitive enough.

And Abrash isn't your run of the mill programmer either.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
ever said:
wtf for real?
Xi's words about another server doing graphics :mystery:
PCI-Express 1.0 x16 speed is 8 Gigabytes/s - the fastest ethernet link available is 1.5 Gigabytes/s. And even that is a very very "schematic" comparison, like apples to oranges - just to show that you can't transfer data over network even at a speed of PCI-Express 1.0 (bah even at a speed of AGP 8x). Simply put - calculating graphics in real-time on another machine will cause a tremendous slowdown. Provided you are the only person using both machines.

[...]
And Abrash isn't your run of the mill programmer either.
It. Just. Works.
 

Xi

Arcane
Joined
Jan 28, 2006
Messages
6,101
Location
Twilight Zone
Well when I'm using the service after they activate me, I'll be sure to report back. Even after I've personally used the service, I'm willing to bet you still won't believe it works. Lol, dumbfuck.
 

ChristofferC

Magister
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
3,515
Location
Thailand
Maybe they use fiber optic cables for server communication and use inhouse developed motherboards that let the CPU of one computer communicate with the graphics card on another computer over the network without any noticable latency. Who knows what these gods of technology have accomplished?
 

Kraszu

Prophet
Joined
May 27, 2005
Messages
3,253
Location
Poland
Xi said:
Well when I'm using the service after they activate me, I'll be sure to report back. Even after I've personally used the service, I'm willing to bet you still won't believe it works. Lol, dumbfuck.

Lets see your comment for:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpFzpF0msrU

Xi said:
Looks pretty decent actually.

If you consider horrible input lag to be decent, then it is hard to take your subjective experience seriously, if you want to show something so subjective then use camera that shows your kb/mouse, and monitor.
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,876,058
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Kingston said:
Tell this to 25 million steamtards.


You can sell any piece of shit as long as you have a fine financial backup and a good marketing team. Thousands of examples prove that. And if the house of cards falls down it will be too late for sheeple to complain.

There's a difference here. This shit requires a subscription fee! Do you think you'll find 25 million people who will pay 15 dollars a month to play rented games?

Onlive provides no real benefits for the customer. It looks exactly like a service born in the minds of publishers. The customer doesn't get to own the game, he is at the mercy of the service. If it goes down people can't play their games.

Isn't that how MMOs work? Yeah, there's the whole social / addicting aspect, but in the end you're also paying a dozen dollars a month to play a game you don't own, can't modify, and can't play if it goes down.

My distrust comes form the technical / money side, I don't doubt people would happily goble this up if they're shown enough hip ads or whatever.

I don't know a single person who wants to get rid of discs, or who wants to pay a monthly subscription for anything other than an MMO.

I'm always reading comments from Steam / direct2drive / etc users happy thaqt they don't need actual disks anymore. People also love these e-readers because they don't have to bother with actual books. Mp3 is awesome because you don't have to carry huge portable CD players when jogging. I imagine most people don't actually care about the physical thing, or modify the files or anything, they just want to enjoy the content as is.
 

SCO

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
16,320
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Angthoron said:
Hooray for being even further removed from actually owning anything! Isn't it great, loaned money, loaned economy, loaned appartments, furniture, hardware, and now, entertainment too? Woo!
Deja vu for the middle ages.

I call it neo-feudalism.
 

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,357
Kingston said:
There's a difference here. This shit requires a subscription fee! Do you think you'll find 25 million people who will pay 15 dollars a month to play rented games?
Sure, why not? I pay full price for a game which is $80 AUD ($50 USD). I play it for maybe a week or two and I've finished it. Uninstall, box goes on my shelf.

If I ever want to play it again, I have to re-install, download all the patches - oh and hope it still works on my PC by then and isn't out-of-date.

If instead, all I paid was $15 USD a month and that gave me access to a bunch of games, I'm ahead by a mile. I can play that latest game, if it sucks, I don't have to worry about it again or I can finish it and not worry about uninstalling it to free up some HDD. I can play it again 3 months later if I want without any re-installation. And all I've paid is my $15 a month.

And much like Steam, this is any computer, anywhere in the world. Only without the massive up-front download and Steam's constant "Oh, so you want to play do you? WELL STEAM WANTS TO UPDATE FIRST BITCH SO SUCK IT".
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
DarkUnderlord said:
Kingston said:
There's a difference here. This shit requires a subscription fee! Do you think you'll find 25 million people who will pay 15 dollars a month to play rented games?
Sure, why not? I pay full price for a game which is $80 AUD ($50 USD). I play it for maybe a week or two and I've finished it. Uninstall, box goes on my shelf.

If I ever want to play it again, I have to re-install, download all the patches - oh and hope it still works on my PC by then and isn't out-of-date.

If instead, all I paid was $15 USD a month and that gave me access to a bunch of games, I'm ahead by a mile. I can play that latest game, if it sucks, I don't have to worry about it again or I can finish it and not worry about uninstalling it to free up some HDD. I can play it again 3 months later if I want without any re-installation. And all I've paid is my $15 a month.

And much like Steam, this is any computer, anywhere in the world. Only without the massive up-front download and Steam's constant "Oh, so you want to play do you? WELL STEAM WANTS TO UPDATE FIRST BITCH SO SUCK IT".

I believe you have to both pay the said $15 and the separate charges for games, not that you get everything for the said $15. Hence the "free year" is basically just no subscription fee rather than anything else.

As for sub fee, it's basically the sub fee of an MMO sans content. Not sure paying just that money for using the platform is all that grand. I suppose it's cheaper than paying a whole $80 for your own copy, but as with any "alternative" that brings in an even more draconian DRM, one should be a bit careful before funding further removal of user rights.

If anything, the users should be demanding a less retarded pricing scheme for hard copies - why the HELL does it cost $80? Do they make it hand-made there? No. Does the government commit sodomy to itself with each disk? No.

So, question is, what right do they have to charge the ridiculous prices? None - but instead of rectifying this one way or the other, they're all too happy to make the citizens of their states to be neo-serf to, as SCO put it, neo-feudalism.


Semi-fake edit: Recently visiting the US I was rather pleasantly surprised with their prices. $35 for DA:O? Yeah, I can shell that out. €55? Uhh, no.
 
Joined
Sep 4, 2009
Messages
3,520
According to ToS, Onlive does not support games beyond 3 years. So if you were worried about Onlive taking away your games when you close your account or they go down, don't worry. They flat out tell you from the beginning that any game you buy is simply rented for 3 years.
:lol:

Also, all games are at standard retail price AFAIK. You aren't saving any money.
 

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