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Review of first NWN 2 modules

aboyd

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
843
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USA
While there are technically 4 single-player game modules available on NW Vault, 2 are severely botched. "The Adventures of Faction Pig" is supposedly nonsensical. "A Simple Problem" is flagged as beta and most quests simply cannot be solved. That leaves us with 2 "real" modules to talk about.

A Dark And Stormy Knight
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=48

This module is about 15 minutes long. It isn't long enough to grant you any level gain. It contains 2 playable maps, one of which is just the lead-in, containing no encounters.

You begin play with a store interface open. Use it or lose it. Once your character is equipped, you can wander the initial area. I can see my character is on a path, so I elected to follow that path out of the area. However, at a certain point, I cannot click along the path any further. Why? Because the game doesn't want the player to leave the area.

So here's my first bit of commentary. And that is, if you are a module builder, would you please "bake" out areas with some intelligence? (Baking is the process of blocking access to certain areas. I have no problem with this, done right. But it seems that the main NWN 2 campaign and both of these modules have left in areas that look like they are intended for use, but they are truly inaccessible.) Why not put rubble in the way? A large mountain? A fence? What is this burgeoning tradition of teasing the player with areas that don't put out?

OK, so the only other option you're left with is a door in a hillside. Enter. Try 3 more doors. I won't spoil it, as it's very, very short. I'll simply say that you have some skirmishes, your journal is updated, you exit into sunlight, and that's the game.

Best characters for the module are probably fighters or clerics, as you'll need power to defeat enemies quickly, or else you'll need the ability to retreat & heal. I played as a rogue, and it was fine, but silly. There was little need for the skills my character had.

Avendale
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=39

This module is meatier. If you read everything and explore every last bit of it, I suspect you could get maybe 8 hours of play out of it. I got about 6. I botched most of the quests, which is why I didn't get my full 8 hours. You can expect to be at level 2 by the end, possibly level 3 if you do absolutely everything perfectly.

This module was a testbed for a fledgling module-maker, as far as I can tell. He or she was trying to learn the dialogue system, how to create companions, etc. So it does try to cover most of the bases.

You start out as a wanderer/traveller of some kind, and come across a man who asks you to deliver a package to a small town. Whether you do it or not, the town is your only available destination. Before you get there, the man warns you of small lizard-like critters in the hills. As you enter the next area, you can stay on the path and do little, or veer off the path and find the lizard dudes. The area is well-populated with trees, and fairly mountainous. Archery is useful here, as is a hide skill.

Eventually you'll make it to town. At the inn, you'll come across two joinable NPCs. They have very little dialogue, but they are interesting enough, considering the humble scope of the module. The male NPC is a bard, the female is a fighter. The innkeeper will give you a typical rats-in-the-cellar quest to start you off. Believe it or not, I botched this. I was never able to complete the quest or get the second quest from him (he supposedly has multiple quests, but only given out in sequence). Turns out, YOU have to kill the rats. I allowed my two companions to finish off the last one. Apparently, that didn't set the "quest completed" flag. Watch out for that.

Anyway, I found other quests from the merchant and boy. They seemed interesting enough. But I botched them too, somehow. In screencaps of the game, it shows the characters chatting up the pixies you can find. In my game, they just went hostile and we killed 'em. The mage quest ended badly for my crew, too.

The part of the game I liked the most was the gnolls. *spoiler* They will ambush you. This shows the first bit of promise from the new not-tile-based engine. They will be in the hills above you, and fire down arrows at you. You can fire back, and eventually get up there and engage them. *end spoiler*

The weakest part of the game is the ending, which is simply a road sign that you might ignore as you try to exit the final area. Right-clicking on the sign and selecting "examine" will reveal the closing text for the module (basically, "my first module, thanks for playing"). Nonetheless, it's a fun little module, and all you'd really need to do to have a proper ending is a basic Bink video with some scrolling text such as, "you clear the area and ride off in search of new adventures."

Best characters for this module? Probably a rogue. If not, you will definitely want to have the bard companion put points into lockpicking & disarm. A ranger would probably be a good character to try, too. You may want to avoid using a cleric, for one reason only: if you pick up all the loot & try to sell it, the sole merchant in the game will run out of cash. I needed to buy very little from him, so the best way to give him money was to buy up tons of healing potions, making a healer redundant.

Have fun.
 

aboyd

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
843
Location
USA
I noticed that another new, real, module had been uploaded. I decided to give it a shot just now. It took me less than an hour to complete. Here's a review:

The Flight from Death
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=54

You begin the game trapped in a jail cell. The whole idea is to escape (from the cell, from the jail, from the town). The person who has imprisoned you is called the "King of Death." Apparently, he's not the King of Death because he can kick your ass, but because he made a deal with a devil, granting him eternal life.

So the good news is that this module finishes up well -- when you escape there is no mistaking it, and as the game ends, it gives you some obvious text and sends you back to the main menu. No aimless wandering, wondering if you've done it. Yay.

The bad news is that the design looks somewhat rushed. For example, there are TONS of doors you can open in the town. But I found a total of zero that led anywhere. They should be locked, or they shouldn't be active when you hover your cursor over them, or... something.

The dialogue is another example of rushed development. To be fair, I saw that one person who reviewed the module on NW Vault said that he found the game to be very motivating and never boring. To some degree, I assume that would be due to the short, quick jabs of dialogue that you get. However, each jab felt pretty bad to me, as there is almost nothing you can do to control it. When I talk to the jailor, my only choice is to taunt him into a fight -- and it doesn't even use the taunt skill. It's on rails.

When I freed another NPC and he joined me, he asked about my background. While I was impressed that the dialogue mentioned that my character was a barbarian, I was not impressed that the dialogue made up a crime for me -- I was framed in a jousting match. Huh? Do barbarians joust? I mean, I guess they do. I guess they'd even be fine at it. But isn't that more of a fighter/paladin thing? It was a bit annoying to have something that I felt was uncharacteristic plopped into my character's background.

I found this recurred with just about every bit of dialogue. Limited choice of responses, pretty much railroaded, very fast and simple.

Still, it's better than "A Dark and Stormy Knight."

In closing, as for character builds, I think I perhaps stumbled upon the best one, first try. I created a barbarian -- I assumed a breakout would require strength & hit points. But I also felt that it might entail opening locks, defeating traps, etc. So I took almost all of my skill points, and put them into disable device, open locks, search, and use magical device. This proved just about perfect, although I didn't use disable device much. My only wish is that I'd put some more points into lore, as there were a few magical items I couldn't identify.

OK, that's it for me. Happy gaming.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
"This shows the first bit of promise from the new not-tile-based engine. They will be in the hills above you, and fire down arrows at you. You can fire back, and eventually get up there and engage them. *end spoiler*"

Eh. This could, and has been done in NWN1. PNF


Anyways, thes emodule sound more like test modules than actual full fledge modules. It's more nlike people getting their foot wet.
 

Atrokkus

Erudite
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Feb 6, 2005
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Borat's Fantasy Land
As you might know, there were several very large projects IN THE MAKING long before the NWN2 release, and now the creators are trying to introduce their design docs and concepts to the brutish realities of somewhat downgraded toolset and other new and not nessesarily beneficient features of the engine. I do have faith in those modules as the modders involved have tons of experience and not much less motivation -- I remember how active they were during the devchats, sometimes even too much so (i remember that "metallix got the most questions answered" little scandal heh).

I do expect to see gems like Tortured Hearts in NWN2 and I think the general quality will be even higher as I think NWN2 has become a bit more pleasant thing to interact with -- both graphic design and interface-wise.
 

Greatatlantic

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Feb 21, 2005
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The Heart of It All
Thanks for the reviews. Alas, none of them sound like their worth my time to download and play. Lets see how bored I become over the holidays. Anyways, its nice to see some of these reviews come out. With the original, I never was able to figure out where the best SP mods were, that didn't require the Shadows expansion.
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 10, 2003
Messages
24,924
Can't you just do a search of NWVault for modules that don't use SOU and then check out the ratings? I know ratings aren't the be all end all fo quality espicially since the ratings are skewered to the higher end (majority of mods are pretty much rated 7+ anyways). But, it's a start.

Or better yet, if you really are interested in playing NWN modules, just buy the expansion or heck by the compilation. It's not that expensive,a nd you get 3 of BIO's premium modules.

:idea: :idea: :idea:
 

aboyd

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
843
Location
USA
Greatatlantic said:
Thanks for the reviews. Alas, none of them sound like their worth my time to download and play.
Yeah, pretty much. These modules get the honor of being the first out, but they won't hold up over time. A year from now, when presumably there will be a handful of excellent lengthy modules available, I would suspect that their ratings might be like this:

A Dark And Stormy Knight - 4 out of 10
Avendale as-is: 6 out of 10
Avendale if it gets a decent ending: 7 out of 10
The Flight from Death - 5 out of 10

Those numbers won't get them anywhere near top module territory. Avendale is OK if you're really hungry for a game. I'll probably replay it tonight and try to not screw up the quests. It's not awful if I'm considering a replay. But that's not high praise.
 

Jim Kata

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Jul 24, 2006
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Nonsexual dungeon
It does not seem like there is much point to this. If some great mod comes along then point it out, but anyone who cares so much about mods will have looked in the first place. Personally since I hate 90% of them I will wait a few eyars before I even bother to look and then just play the couple most likely looking ones.
 

Baphomet

Scholar
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Feb 9, 2006
Messages
354
Location
Americans do not need geography
When there are actually decent mods out there to play, a thread like this will be really useful. I always thought the search capabilities on the Vault blew. If a codexer recommended a module I would check it out.

It would also be cool if those of us who finish a mod could post our creations, and then the codex could unite to tell those poor fools that they suck as game designers.
 
Joined
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Baphomet said:
It would also be cool if those of us who finish a mod could post our creations, and then the codex could unite to tell those poor fools that they suck as game designers.

This is exactly why I'm not going to mention my mod here.
 

Baphomet

Scholar
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Feb 9, 2006
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Americans do not need geography
Heh, I'm sure it will be *very* brutal. If I ever do complete a module, I'd be interested in that brutal critique. I think it could make me a better game designer. The NWN community is too nice, and the ratings are really more of a 6-10 scale instead of a 1-10 scale.
 
Joined
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True enough, I do want "proper" criticism for what I do, but I'm terrified of disillusionment. Thus, my writing is confined to easily-pleased schoolmates and nicer forums, and Muffinwind... well, those of the Codex who played it seemed to like it, but I'm not going to push my luck.
 

Jim Kata

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Jul 24, 2006
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Nonsexual dungeon
Baphomet said:
Heh, I'm sure it will be *very* brutal. If I ever do complete a module, I'd be interested in that brutal critique. I think it could make me a better game designer. The NWN community is too nice, and the ratings are really more of a 6-10 scale instead of a 1-10 scale.

I will post my M&B mod at some point when it is actually done, or at least in a reelased state.
 

aboyd

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
843
Location
USA
aboyd said:
The Flight from Death
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=54

My only wish is that I'd put some more points into lore, as there were a few magical items I couldn't identify.
Just a note -- the developer released a new version that addresses my issue (I think some potions of lore were added) and has some bug fixes.

Also, I'll post another module review in a few minutes.
 

fraunclein

Novice
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
67
Here's a teaser trailer of the much anticipated Planescape mod thingamabob. Get ready for some pretty graphics, bland writing and thiefling chicks with fancy hair!
 

aboyd

Liturgist
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Messages
843
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USA
Shadow Keep
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=55

This module is a model of truth-in-advertising. It states right up front that elements of role playing are nonexistant, and that hack-n-slash is paramount. It's a monty-haul campaign, as well.

But I liked it for what it was. I tried the same approach that I used in a previous review -- barbarian with skills in lockpicking, lore, etc. I figured if my character was on his own, then I'd need the fighting skills, and I might need skills to find & use treasure. It served me well. I cannot imagine taking a wizard, bard, or rogue through this module. However, if you find NWN 2 to be incredibly easy even on the harder settings, maybe you might be inclined to take those classes through this game. Know that some enemies will do 6+ points of damage on a single hit (normal hits, not crits), so a level 1 mage would be insta-killed in a single shot.

The basic story is that you're on the road and come across a path to the Shadow Keep. You've heard stories of undead and treasure, so you go for it. It turns out there are undead, and there is treasure. That's it. The game ends when you clear the 3 or 4 levels of the keep.

It's funny to me that of the 3 lines of dialogue in the whole game, 1 is buggy. There is a merchant you can talk to before the final battle, and he says, "you've not faced the final battle, maybe you should stock up." Of course, he says this even if you HAVE faced the final battle. Oh well, that's not the biggest issue with the merchant. The biggest issue with the merchant is that he exists. In an evil keep. He has tons of gold and loot. He will fully equip you to fight the end boss. And the bad guys in the keep let him live? It's nonsense, but that's OK. I understood -- the final battle was clearly intended to be overpowering for a low-level character, so it was my one chance to even the odds. Since my barbarian had selected to worship the god of battle planning & strategy, it seemed fitting to spend time reviewing the possibilities and figuring out which combination of equipment would serve me best when fighting an unknown enemy.

If you right-click on the final enemy so that you can watch its life bar go down, prepare to be disappointed. It stays nearly full through the first n attacks, and then depletes fully in a single blow. I couldn't figure out how that worked -- does it have resistances that I was breaking through? Did I score a critical with max damage, and that just happened to take the bad guy from 100% full health bar to 0% full?

In any case, I ended up defeating the enemy without using any of the healing potions I bought, so I guess my barbarian planned a little too well.

If you're interested, it's a nice diversion. There isn't much to it, so there isn't much that is broken. It's a stable, working single-player module that will give you an hour or two of entertainment. It's probably a nice way to put different character builds through their paces, if you're trying to learn about the D&D system.
 

aboyd

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Oct 28, 2004
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From Within - An Unknown Enemy (Prologue)
http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=NW ... tail&id=56

This module is frustrating. It's possibly the most ambitious module yet, but it's also the most broken.

The module is not ambitious in terms of length. You'll finish it in an hour or so. But it's ambitious in two ways. First, it's clearly the start of an interesting story that will continue for a few more modules. Second, the developer is definitely pushing the edge of what the toolset can do as far as programming and triggered events.

Interesting Story

The story is frustrating because while it probably has a good mystery to reveal, it's totally hamfisted. In short: you've been summoned to help some towns suffering from an unknown attack, but there's something odd about how the leaders rush you off without disclosing all the details. The attack scenario has been done before, but getting a whiff of the "leaders = liars" subplot right from the outset is fun.

The hamfisted-ness comes from the unrealistic dialogue responses. At no point can you decline. You cannot insist on details. At no point can you call the leaders on how stupid they're sounding. In addition, one of the exchanges is completely worthless due to how repetitive and un-useful the leader is being:

Leader: Do you understand the mission?

Charname: No. I need more details.

Leader: I'll leave the details to Leader #2.

Charname: OK, let's go talk to leader #2.

Leader: But wait! Do you understand the mission? Do you have any questions?

Charname: I just told you I don't, and I want details first. Are you suddenly willing to answer questions?

Leader: I'll leave the details to leader #2.

This kind of exchange is annoying. In addition, the dialogues are full of homophones, which I think makes the module look like it was created by a 14 year-old. It probably was.

Programming

For a module that is only an hour long, there are a lot of triggered events. Your companion will stop to complain about the mission. Doors will unlock at certain times. And so on.

The concept is very good, as it clearly promises to make the game world seem more alive.

The frustration is that almost all of it is broken. If you don't walk through a door the proper way, the scripted event may not trigger. If you veer away from what's expected, things break. For example, after talking to leader #2, he tells me to meet him in another room on that level. Instead, I went downstairs. Whoops, there he is, and he replays all his dialogue.

In another instance, I was asked to wait in a room. I waited, and nothing happened. So I clicked on the bed and was given an option to rest. So I did. When I awoke, no event triggered. I tried the door. I was locked in. I tried to rest again, but was disallowed. I picked the locks on everything in the room. Nothing. I stood around. I was locked in. Finally an event triggered on my third access of the door. That's just stupid.

I think the problem is that the developer is enamored with the wealth of control that the toolset offers. He's pushing it more out of infatuation with the possibilities than out of necessity. Why not have a normal room that uses the normal rest icon, and why not have the event trigger immediately after rest? Why the extra hacking? It added nothing.

Of course, I wouldn't even make such a complaint if everything worked perfectly. If it worked, it'd be cool. But it doesn't. So I find myself wishing the nifty hacks were scaled back. That's what the Shadow Keep module got right -- simple, but stable.

Overall, I'd give this both the best & worst scores. Right now it's a 3 because it's so frustrating. But potentially, it's an 8 or 9 if it's fleshed out and repaired.
 

aboyd

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Sorry to resurrect a dead topic, but I played another NWN 2 module, and wanted to review it. The module is Mystery at Willowbow -- sorry, no link to it for now. You can find it on NW Vault, but I'm feeling lazy. :)

Basic plot summary: you're stuck in a swamp in the Mere, and you need to find out why the road is blocked and the ferry disappeared. Yes, it takes place in the same setting as the offical campaign. This swamp is MUCH better in this module, though. It actually seems swampy.

The module is different in that it is not balanced for level 1 characters. The game itself has text stating that it's for characters level 3 to 5. The text on NW Vault says it's for characters levels 4 to 6. I personally would suggest that you be level 5 to 7 (at the start) if you have Even's AI mod installed, as it makes the final battle difficult. Also, it's multiplayer friendly, and probably would be best to play that way, as doing it solo is a bit hard. I did it solo, using the barbarian I exported from the Shadow Keep module. It wasn't too bad, although my barbarian didn't have good enough lockpicking skills to get past everything.

This module has 2 companions. There is an unattractive female elf ranger, and a female cleric. The cleric is odd, as her charisma and faith would imply that she's a charmer and wholesome, but in reality, she talks like a slut, and it's not very charming. The whole game is this way, actually. For example, in one of the journals you find, you read the story of a man who was raped by a witch -- at the time, she was polymorphed into troll form, and he was crushed & eaten as part of the sex act. In another journal, a drow attaches a "device" to a giant spider that allows her to enjoy "pleasures" with the spider. This isn't clean, mom-approved D&D.

Although there are a handful of journals to read, there isn't much dialogue in the game. And what there is suffers from the same issues as other modules -- namely, no state, no awareness of the events you've triggered. When you talk to the tavern keeper at the beginning, he advises you to see the ranger girl. And he will keep giving you that same advice, even after you've met the ranger girl, got her on your team, and solved her quest.

However, there are no show-stopping bugs in this game. In fact, I only found one real bug. In one of the caves, the ranger's badger was initially placed far away, in a wall. I was able to repeat the bug, but I was also able to resummon the badger to my side, so no big deal.

While the game has a lot of combat and loot, there are very few healing potions. If, like me, you only rest in "safe" places, you'll find the game to be quite challenging (or tedious, if you're constantly going back to the inn to rest). For me, it was interesting, as I had to actually use the cleric as a healer instead of a tank. By the time I got to the second town and saw what had happened to it, I was out of every healing item I had. Combat became very calculated at that point. In one battle it appeared that one of my characters would die, so I did a very BG1 thing -- I ran him in circles while my two companions fired arrows at the bad guys chasing me.

While there is a lot of loot, the merchants won't have enough gold to buy it all from you, which makes weight an important consideration when evaluating what is most important to sell off.

In conclusion, I'd say that the module overall is pretty good. It's stable. The plot seems OK. The dialogues are weak, but not awful. Most people seem to be able to finish it in one sitting. It took me two nights to complete. I had fun. I'd give it a 7 out of 10.
 

aboyd

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Messages
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fraunclein said:
Here's a teaser trailer of the much anticipated Planescape mod thingamabob. Get ready for some pretty graphics, bland writing and thiefling chicks with fancy hair!
Yeah, that was my worry. I'm really unenthusiastic about the dialogues. So far, they seem very standard and by-the-book. I always felt that the dialect of Sigil opened the door for inventive dialogue. Yet in the trailer for this new Planescape mod, the writing is very been-there-done-that. I don't want something strange and fascinating reduced to "the same interactions and same dialogues we've seen in 100 other TV shows."

Having said that, I'll just be happy to have a new Planescape game at all, much less the first of a trilogy. If they get half the stuff right, that will be enough for me to be giddy over it.

Of course, the NWN 1 series of modules, "Tales of Arterra" is what I'd consider to be a truly spiritual successor to PS:T. I defy any NWN 2 module to even come close. I doubt it's possible right now. Maybe in 2008 or 2009, after putting a year or two into the effort.
 

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