Codex Interview RPG Codex Interview: Obsidian's Carrie Patel on Pillars of Eternity

[Hormalakh]

You missed the biggest indication of shit taste by far.

John R. R. or George R. R.?

George!​

You think JRRT is better than GRRM?

 

[kenup]

Also, Stephenson, Mass Effect, Name of the Rose and Dune. Yeah, that's some really challenging litterary references right there. Now to wonder why writing in video games is always so unoriginal. (I mean, I liked those too, but I don't write professionnally. Couldn't someone who does this as a job have some more varied sources of inspiration ?)

What she likes doesn't necessarily reflect her writing skills. It's bs to jump to conclusions based on that, especially when you liked some of those as well. If you want better writing, who's to say she doesn't as well?

 

[Ganymede]

You think JRRT is better than GRRM?

Gee idk lol. Let's go through an example of their work and see if we can detect any differences in quality.

In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.

All save one.

or

Once she was certain which way was south, she counted off her paces. The stream appeared at eight. Dany cupped her hands to drink. The water made her belly cramp, but cramps were easier to bear than thirst.

Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water. When she closed her eyes at last, Dany did not know whether she would be strong enough to open them again

 

[Rake]

You think JRRT is better than GRRM?

Gee idk lol. Let's go through an example of their work and see if we can detect any differences in quality.

In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl. A great black shape against the fires beyond he loomed up, grown to a vast menace of despair. In rode the Lord of the Nazgûl, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face.

All save one.

or

Once she was certain which way was south, she counted off her paces. The stream appeared at eight. Dany cupped her hands to drink. The water made her belly cramp, but cramps were easier to bear than thirst.

Sunset found her squatting in the grass, groaning. Every stool was looser than the one before, and smelled fouler. By the time the moon came up she was shitting brown water. The more she drank, the more she shat, but the more she shat, the thirstier she grew, and her thirst sent her crawling to the stream to suck up more water. When she closed her eyes at last, Dany did not know whether she would be strong enough to open them again

I don't think she meant actual wordsmithing in her answer. I take her answer as her liking more realistic ("grimdark" for lack of a better word) fantasy than the happy go lucky good vs evil kind. And there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Morality Games]

I''m inclined to be impressed really; if some girl lists Planescape: Torment and Morrowind among her favorite games, put a ring on that right away.

 

[agris]

In recent years, games have moved towards a more cinematic approach, and that has clearly impacted game writing as well. How do you feel about the medium today?

As technology improves, developers will inevitably make use of those advances (particularly for AAA titles). As you indicate, that will sometimes lead to a focus on more cinematic games, which may lend themselves to more linear narratives: the player is more deliberately shepherded from one plot point to the next, meaning that the "open world" feeling may diminish but the game may track the story arc more closely (also, maintaining that cinematic production value for a more open game can be cost-prohibitive). I don't see this as a good or bad thing so long as we continue to have variety, and games like Pillars of Eternity demonstrate that there's still a lot of interest in other styles and that it's possible to be epic without being cinematic.​

Emphasis mine. Wonder if that was a subtle dig? Shepard'ed would be a fitting term for a cinematic, overproduced 'rpg' that is ultimately shallow and linear.

 

[Ganymede]

I don't think she meant actual wordsmithing in her answer. I take her answer as her liking more realistic ("grimdark" for lack of a better word) fantasy than the happy go lucky good vs evil kind. And there is nothing wrong with that.

If "wordsmithing" doesn't figure in to your literary influences as an author then I don't even know what to say. Funny thing is you'll probably find women as a whole prefer GRRM's writing, despite having paragraphs literally full of shit, simply because it's more easily accessible.

 

[Hormalakh]

Honestly, I would have to say that Tolkien's work is much more childish and "bedtime story" than GRRM's. GRRM's characters, regardless of how he writes, are much more believable, complex, and interesting than Tolkien's hobbits, elves, and dwarves.

Being able to wordsmith well and being able to write an engaging and complex story are two distinct things. Arguing that wordsmithery is the epitome of good writing is bordering on pretentiousness, in my opinion.

 

[Paul_cz]

Tolkien sucks. More boring shit I have yet to read.

 

[Visbhume]

Oh come now. So her taste in sf isn't as as you want it to be. We should just be thankful she didn't say ursula leguin, margaret atwood, and jezebel.

UL & MA >> GRRM, IMHO

 

[MrBuzzKill]

Oh come now. So her taste in sf isn't as as you want it to be. We should just be thankful she didn't say ursula leguin, margaret atwood, and jezebel.

What's wrong with Ursula Le Guin?

 

[Rake]

Honestly, I would have to say that Tolkien's work is much more childish and "bedtime story" than GRRM's. GRRM's characters, regardless of how he writes, are much more believable, complex, and interesting than Tolkien's hobbits, elves, and dwarves.

Being able to wordsmith well and being able to write an engaging and complex story are two distinct things. Arguing that wordsmithery is the epitome of good writing is bordering on pretentiousness, in my opinion.

To be fair i think Tolkien wrote LotR as a children's book, so it's not fair to complain about the childishness of his work. Silmarillion is his "adult" work and that should be compaired to modern authors in terms of tone.

 

[Roguey]

Tolkien and Martin are both garbage, thus spoke Wannika.

Name of the Rose...Yeah, that's some really challenging litterary references right there.

um what
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/57491-fo-nv-dlcs-discussion/page-16#entry1142593

I'd go so far as to say that gamers in general have pretty low standards when it comes to writing quality. Then again, we live in a world where Dan "Symbologist" Brown is a household name and Umberto Eco is, relatively speaking, a fringe figure, so I don't know that gamers are unique in setting the bar low.

 

[circ]

Anything is better than GRRM.

You gonna cry now?

 

[clemens]

Tolkien and Martin are both garbage, thus spoke Wannika.

Name of the Rose...Yeah, that's some really challenging litterary references right there.

um what
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/57491-fo-nv-dlcs-discussion/page-16#entry1142593

I'd go so far as to say that gamers in general have pretty low standards when it comes to writing quality. Then again, we live in a world where Dan "Symbologist" Brown is a household name and Umberto Eco is, relatively speaking, a fringe figure, so I don't know that gamers are unique in setting the bar low.

When it comes to quoting some well-known medieval-set opus without falling into the downright ridiculous, Name of the Rose is pretty much the most ovious choice, i.e : not impressed. (Had she referenced The Abyss instead, for instance, then we could have talked )
Umberto Eco a fringe figure ? Come on... Name of the Rose is a fucking international best-seller, mentionned in every "100 best novels"-list ever published and a 75.000.000$ movie...
The fact that Sawyer thinks he is more "high-brow" than the average gamer because he's read something else than Dan Brown only goes to show that he is your standard History BA hipster with a superiority complex... (And I can say that sincerely, because I'm myself your standard early-modern History M.A. with a superiority complex ).

edit :

but if you don't like Eco, feel free to insert any other contemporary author who is a better writer than Dan Brown but sells poorly/is not well-known!

lol... Eco sells poorly and is not well-known ? wtf ? :patriot:

 

[Hormalakh]

Posers in this thread:

Sheeeeeeiiiit all I read is Beowulf in its original olde english. Everything else is sheeeeeiiiiiiit.

 

[agris]

When it comes to quoting some well-known medieval-set opus without falling into the downright ridiculous, Name of the Rose is pretty much the most ovious choice, i.e : not impressed. (Had she referenced The Abyss instead, for instance, then we could have talked )
Umberto Eco a fringe figure ? Come on... Name of the Rose is a fucking international best-seller, mentionned in every "100 best novels"-list ever published and a 75.000.000$ movie...
The fact that Sawyer thinks he is more "high-brow" than the average gamer because he's read something else than Dan Brown only goes to show that he is your standard History BA hipster with a superiority complex... (And I can say that sincerely, because I'm myself your standard early-modern History M.A. with a superiority complex ).

edit :

but if you don't like Eco, feel free to insert any other contemporary author who is a better writer than Dan Brown but sells poorly/is not well-known!

lol... Eco sells poorly and is not well-known ? wtf ?

Would Ken Follett's Pillars of the Earth qualify? I liked it a lot more than Eco's Rose. Though I think it was made into a movie also.

 

[Hormalakh]

Honestly, who cares what you've read or not? Being well-read is more important than having read one singular "great" author.

 

[circ]

Here I thought having a good imagination and gift of words would matter a little for a writer, but hay.

 

[clemens]

Honestly, who cares what you've read or not? Being well-read is more important than having read one singular "great" author.

Yep. That's why referencing Eco can make one look like someone who has read "that one thing". Not that it's not good in itself...

Would Ken Follett's Pillars of the Earth qualify? I liked it a lot more than Eco's Rose. Though I think it was made into a movie also.

Well, he's also a "mainstream" best-selling author, even more so than Eco. He's still better than D. Brown, though, sure. Eco's Baudolino is also nice, you'd probably like it better than the Name of the Rose if you liked Pillars of the Earth.

 

[Hormalakh]

Here I thought having a good imagination and gift of words would matter a little for a writer, but hay.

I don't disagree with you. I think they are important, but having a good imagination is not the same as the gift of words. Some people have great ideas but don't know how to express them beautifully, and some people can speak/write/communicate well, but always rehash old ideas. I think it's a rare writer who has both. Reiterating a previously-made comment about the dialogue between the two great masters, Hemingway and Faulkner:

Hemingway, the 1954 Nobel prizewinner for literature, defended his concise style against a charge by William Faulkner that he "had never been known to use a word that might send the reader to the dictionary."[6] Hemingway responded by saying, "Poor Faulkner. Does he really think big emotions come from big words? He thinks I don't know the ten-dollar words. I know them all right. But there are older and simpler and better words, and those are the ones I use."

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

Oh come now. So her taste in sf isn't as as you want it to be. We should just be thankful she didn't say ursula leguin, margaret atwood, and jezebel.

Ursula LeGuin is awesome. Never got into Earthsea, but the The Dispossessed and Left Hand of Darkness are terrific. And "Ones who walk away from Omelas" is probably the best parable I have ever read. It's like five pages, so really no one reason for anyone not to read it - http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/dunnweb/rprnts.omelas.pdf

 

[Akratus]

Nobody's going to hate on Tolkien, not on my watch. I bet none of you that say he's shit have ever read the Silmarillion or Children of Hurin. Yeah, this is a real fairy tale: (Massive spoilers for entirety of Children of Hurin)

Spoiler

You walk the earth, cursed by the greatest evil in the world, who has captured and still tortures your father who has to witness all the bad things that happen to you. Then, because of a hasty mistake in the dark you strike down your best friend as he came to help you. Then you meet your sister whom you do not recognize, fall in love with her, marry her and get her pregnant. Then you fight the dragon that took the memories of your sister away and he reveals this. So your sister/wife takes her own life and kills your child by jumping down a waterfall and so you stab your black blade through your chest and kill yourself.

No Timmy, they did not live happily ever after.

 

[Jedi Exile]

I never liked Silmarillion very much because of high fantasy. Hobbit is the best - a nice low key story about a normal boring guy in his 30s without superpowers (before he found the ring) who never wanted to be an adventurer.

Yeah, and Tolkien actually can write. He is good at it, unlike the people who try to copy him over and over again.

 

[Psquit]

But M-muh rape fiction!1