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Anime Video games are better without stories - Vice article

laclongquan

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Bitch please~

First you have to define WHICH video games genre are we talking about.

Action shooter absolutely doesnt need story. Do you remember story of Doom? Quake? Half Life? You can tell whatever the fuck you want to tell, or not at all.

But an CYOA adventure game absolutely need a story. Well written, maybe, but at the absolutely least is a coherent story.

Everything else fall into the spectrum between two extreme.

The Atlantic writers are hipster of hipster. Maaaaaaaybe they can say something about cinematic style of games, since that fall right into their favourite thing, but I doubt they know shit worthy enough.

And to crawl through their long ass rambling is too much work.
 

oscar

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No story is better than a bad story and far too many developers overestimate their skill at writing.
 

Spectacle

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The problem with these manchildren is they cannot accept things for what they are. Sometimes you just want to play a game of Monopoly with your family/friends. It is purely a dice rolling and negotiation game. Even the people that made that game didn't see it as some simulation of wealth or something.
Monopoly was explcitly made to illustrate how monopolies lead to snowballing wealth for the monopolists and all other participants getting squeezed out of the market. The fact that people still play this piece of propaganda for "fun" is the real mystery.
 

orcinator

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I agree with the author's idea that a lot of story focused games would have been better as movies or comic books.

Too bad the article seems to be mostly about shilling one walking sim and how it totes wouldn't be better as a movie.
 

rezaf

Cipher
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Jan 26, 2015
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No story is better than a bad story and far too many developers overestimate their skill at writing.

While I agree with the latter part of the sentence, I disagree with the former, at least in a majority of cases. Or I kinda disagree, depending on how you look at it.
You can make a good shooter without any real story, but these have fallen out of fashion. Most players expect some kind of framing story these days. Even so, it's possible.
But try to make a point & click adventure work without having a story.
RPGs are in a similar boat as shooters - players have come to expect stories. There are subgenres that can live without story - roguelikes, diablolikes, blobbers, but others, not so much.

I think it's just part of what makes us human that we enjoy a good story. And the standards of what constitutes good vary greatly. So, for 80% of game subgenres, I'd say having a story, even a bad one, is definately better than having no story.
 

Freddie

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I liked what writer I guess tried to say regarding modern games. When your cinematic cut scenes comes onto way of game play creators justify that with some sort of pipe dream that it makes them more acceptable and making games more 'mature', or even art, they are in the wrong business.

That said, I don't know what to think of this article over all. It touches many things, doesn't really say games aren't art, yet keep referring them as mass media. References things like poetry, but also architecture, later for example, he writes about Doom early on and then later even goes saying:

"[..] Take ray tracing and reverse it to track projectiles: you get Doom.
Games show players the unseen uses of ordinary materials.As the only mass medium that arose after postmodernism, it’s no surprise that those materials so often would be the stuff of games themselves.
"​

But architecture isn't anything but a pipe dream either without mathematics, because whatever the creation is, be that bridge, statue, whatever, it has to be structurally solid. Doom, whatever beauty or art there is, would be in whatever understanding of human mind there can be, that would also be in mathematics. The element that makes the very gaming experience author mentions earlier and the universal language that can help us to have at least some understanding of minds like Carmack. Of course this is irrelevant if you keep stressing about games and story this, games and story that.

Author goes on with these holodeck references, but misses the point because holodeck would be the ultimate game experience in a sense that it wouldn't be limited to whatever pre-programmed historical or fictional scenarios, but can be used to create any game experience or story player can imagine. Yet, if we want to ever get anywhere close to that sort of experience we need hardware and software, math. So it's like writer really tries to make a point, but also tries to avoid saying too much.

Then what about games and stories? Even this is in general gaming, this is RPG Codex after all and funny enough, I have been playing old Gold Box game "Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday". It's one of the few Gold Box games I didn't play back in the day and of course there's lot of nostalgy, but there's also other things. It really has made me think of few times how so much could be achieved with so little.

So author goes on writing about interacting with objects and linear story structures. Someone pointed out importance of settings earlier, but IMO there's more to it. It's interaction with the world based on not only player action but also choices. Then people have always taken different approaches even to such things like some min max and I just can't be arsed to reroll endlessly. So even that choice can influence the story, because min maxers story is story of super humans, and my party's story is story of some quite average guys (in the context of settings) who happen to be somewhat gifted in their profession. And I could go on and on, but it's actually very different experience having characters like this than Geralt or Shepard. It's my mind filling the blank spots.

There's no single RPG mentioned in article (I take Bioshock is discussed in RPG section because of it's System Shock roots) so it doesn't even never go to area where lines get blurred. I don't know how much different it's reading a story and imagining how everything is and happens, or playing an RPG and my imagination working on background filling the blanks.

I like some points author tries to make. Especially regarding RPG's I thought of Mass Effect 3. Everyone remembers it's ending but tends to forget how terrible it was narrative wise partially because some idiots thought taking player control away and make characters do something really stupid in 'Hollywood' cut scenes is a great idea.

I also like couple of other things author (perhaps) tries to convey. That said, unfortunately it's just bit too convenient from author forget that cRPG's exist, which then happens to create narrative that supports his point of view. This sort of approach just undermines his own text. There are adventure games, walking simulators, shooters... none of those is computer GAMING and so can't present entire possibilities of story element. So who can take this seriously?
 

I ASK INANE QUESTIONS

ITZ NEVER STOPS COOOMING
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The problem with these manchildren is they cannot accept things for what they are. Sometimes you just want to play a game of Monopoly with your family/friends. It is purely a dice rolling and negotiation game. Even the people that made that game didn't see it as some simulation of wealth or something.

In 1903, the Georgist Lizzie Magie applied for a patent on a game called The Landlord's Game with the object of showing that rents enriched property owners and impoverished tenants.
The history of the board game Monopoly can be traced back to the early 20th century. The earliest known version of Monopoly, known as The Landlord's Game, was designed by an American, Elizabeth Magie, and first patented in 1904 but existed as early as 1902.[1][2] Magie, a follower of Henry George, originally intended The Landlord's Game to illustrate the economic consequences of Ricardo's Law of Economic rent and the Georgist concepts of economic privilege and land value taxation

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

decaf

Learned
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Early history
According to an advertisement placed in The Christian Science Monitor, Charles Todd of Philadelphia recalled the day in 1932 when his childhood friend, Esther Jones and her husband Charles Darrow, came to their house for dinner. After the meal, the Darrows played The Landlord's Game several times with them, a game that was entirely new to the Darrows, and before he left, Darrow asked for a written set of the rules. After Darrow distributed the game himself as Monopoly, the Todds never spoke to the Darrows again.[7]

After Darrow had excellent sales during the Christmas season of 1934, the Parker Brothers bought the game's copyrights from Darrow.[8] After finding Darrow was not the sole inventor of the game, Parker bought the rights to Magie's patent.[9]

Very caplitalist origins. :keepmymoney:
 

DJOGamer PT

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Story in videogames are as important as the cover and font style of a book (except for adventure games obviously).

A game can have an absolute shit story (or even almost no story at all), but if it has good gameplay and content then it's a good or very good game. But the inverse doesn't apply.

Even the visuals and audio of a game are more important than the story. As these 2 things have more of a direct impact on the game's athmosphere and the way the player experiences the game.

Not to say that a good story doesn't add up a game's value, but it adds little comparing to the other aspescts. And the biggest problem nowadays is that from AAA to indie game devs give to much importance to the story aspect of their projects (and writing abillities and imagination). Importance that in most cases excedes far more the other components. And implenting in the most anoying and intrusive ways a game can tell a story, like un-skipable long ass cutscenes. Even in fucking action games! And still these stories tend to be bad, mediocre at best.
 
Last edited:
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Video games essentially rely on gameplay and setting. A narrative only helps to provide a satisfying ending. If it's great, it's a bonus, but if it's non-existent (go save the princess), the game can still be great.
Even narrative-heavy games such as Torment or AoD, rely essentially on gameplay, for the way the player handles the narrative IS the gameplay.
 

Max Stats

Liturgist
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If story is so unimportant, there's be little need for anything but Tetris and maybe a few sports or board game simulators.
 
Self-Ejected

buru5

Very Grumpy Dragon
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If story is so unimportant, there's be little need for anything but Tetris and maybe a few sports or board game simulators.

Stop pretending that game mechanics can't exist in a vacuum without story and context.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
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Depends-On-The-Game™ - The thread

Yeah but 99% of games nowadays try to have a story, to the detriment of many.

BTW, by "story" i mean actual narratives that hinder the game in some way. Technically speaking, both Doom and Super Mario had a "story" but they were really just a basic pretext to get the game going. You didn't have to sit through boring cut scenes with boring and poorly written expositions and boring, cliched characters. Every game nowadays has to be a fucking movie.
 

Vorark

Erudite
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Messages
1,394
Yeah but 99% of games nowadays try to have a story, to the detriment of many.

BTW, by "story" i mean actual narratives that hinder the game in some way. Technically speaking, both Doom and Super Mario had a "story" but they were really just a basic pretext to get the game going. You didn't have to sit through boring cut scenes with boring and poorly written expositions and boring, cliched characters. Every game nowadays has to be a fucking movie.

It's made even worse when sometimes you can't skip the cutscene.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
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Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
As if popamole makers made their gameplay banal because of story, they want to make a gameplay that isn't challenging and complicated so they can sell more copies but as even complete morons eventually get tired of connecting the dots, they feel they need to sweeten the deal with "story" to capture their attention and as most people have low standards on stories as they have on gameplay, the result is just plain bad.

"Hey, you get shit gameplay but you can have some cutscenes and hey, see that pretty stuff over there, nice isn't it?" Sure, this problem is because developers are obsessive about story and not because they love money.:roll:

There is no logical reason why you can't make a game with good gameplay and good story, there is no absolute yes or no to story too. There are games that depend more of it and others that depend less of it. Doom doesn't need story but Gabriel Knight would be nothing without story. Actually, the stories in games suffered alot of the same popamolification as the gameplay, you have pretty good writers of the 90's without jobs and complete hacks writing for multi millionaire franchises right now.

The cutscene abuse did to stories on videogames, the same that regenerating health did for shooters. The design is fucked up but it doesn't mean it can't be done better. It is just that AAA publishers don't care about design, while people keep gobbling their low effort shit, they will keep doing it.
 

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