Why can't I play/enjoy Ultima VII?

[undead dolphin hacker]

What's wrong with me? Ultima VII is supposed to be the grand RPG masterpiece, rivaled by giants like Torment and Fallout, but according to grognards, not overcome.

I've got The Complete Ultima 7 on its original CD release. No idea where it came from or how I got it. I have a vague memory of a Classics Pack or something, but I would have been... maybe 13 or 14 when I saw it in Wal-Mart as I went to buy Might and Magic 6 and Mechwarrior 2 with my good grades money, but I doubt I bought it then.

Anyway, so there's this CD staring at me, and it's been staring at me for years.

Every so often I give in and install. The intro is campy but the initial MIDI is spine-tingling.

I answer the tarot shit and land in the town. Recruit the old man. Inspect the murder scene, find... a key, was it? Go into the blacksmith's, wonder why shit is flying around and why my guy just threw up, I guess a vomit ghost? Go to the northwest house and open the box, get the cult amulet or whatever. Recruit the kid at the same time. Go answer Lord British's copy protection quiz, finally leave the town.

The game is jerky as hell, not in terms of FPS, but in terms of there being maybe two frames of animation. Also it's in 320x200 so it looks like a busy petri dish most of the time, but eventually the eyes adjust.

Several times I would turn on a debug hack that let me move anything and go into the cheat room. Use the warp map to explore shit like the island under the compass rose, or just warp into Britain. Get the super spell book and fuck around with it, cast Armageddon and see Lord British qq at me. Pick up stuff like parts of walls or the observatory's telescope and carry them around with me in my microsize bag of holding.

When I decide to play for real, I wander around aimlessly. I think I saw a moon portal once, and have some vague memory of it landing me on a pirate island or some bullshit. One time I met a travelling band of actors or something.

The ending was always the same. A deer or something (I can't make it out) charges at me and the busy petri dish goes into hyperdrive. Suddenly the little boy and the old man are chunks of bloody meat, I either run away or share their fate shortly after.

And I quit, because it's totally fucking ridiculous.

I know about Exult, but last I heard it breaks the game by making you see stuff you're not supposed to and thus triggers events before they should happen based on your position. I also heard the "virtues" or whatever didn't work, so there was no consequences or NPC reactions for stealing.

I can put up with clunky RPG design. Ultima 4 made sense. Natuk, POWS, Helherron too. World of Xeen was and is dandy. I'm learning Realms of Arkania but can see I'll be able to outwrestle it.

But I just can't find a way to enjoy Ultima 7. Combat is over before I know it's begun. My guys skate along the ground and seem to be moving way too fast than they should be. Nothing is explained or elaborated on, what the fuck was that vomit ghost? Why does some booming voice randomly say shit to me or laugh?

 

[Jasede]

Well... wandering aimlessly, in Ultima 7, is most of the fun.

Exult only breaks the game if you use a too big resolution.



Mister Dolphin! Please try Ultima 7 Part 2- Serpent Isle. It has a lot of things Ultima 7 lack - mostly, a sense of direction, and, at least to me, more "inner coherence". Give it a shot, will you please?

I promise things make a lot more sense in U7-2! At least to me. And while combat is still, no other words, really very bad, it is somewhat more balanced due to a lack of over-powered weapons in part 2. At least, easily acquirable over-powered weapons.

 

[Shagnak]

Yup, combat in U7 was arse. I feel your pain.

I actually prefer Ultima IV and V, so I'll leave it to others to try and sway you back to the light side.

 

[Claw]

I answer the tarot shit and land in the town.

Huh? Are you playing a different Ultima VII than I?

If your complaints start with the intro, maybe the game isn't for you. I usually travel through Paws to Britain after I'm done with Trinsic. Seems pretty straightforward, I'm sure the northern road leads there, and if you start travelling south, the Guardian will tell you that you're travelling in the wrong direction iirc.
I talk to the people I meet, which leads to quests and stuff. That's what leads me through the game.
Combat is worthless, and so are the traditional RPG mechanics.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

I answer the tarot shit and land in the town.

Huh? Are you playing a different Ultima VII than I?

If your complaints start with the intro, maybe the game isn't for you. I usually travel through Paws to Britain after I'm done with Trinsic. Seems pretty straightforward, I'm sure the northern road leads there, and if you start travelling south, the Guardian will tell you that you're travelling in the wrong direction iirc.
I talk to the people I meet, which leads to quests and stuff. That's what leads me through the game.
Combat is worthless, and so are the traditional RPG mechanics.

I thought there was the tarot character creation thing like in other Ultima games, maybe I got it confused.

Am I to assume the booming voice (I guess the Guardian?) is a bad guy? Is he the vomit ghost? Is anything supposed to make sense at this part of the game or do you come across other vomit ghosts and finally figure out where they come from?

It's really the combat that makes me fucking mad. One of my favorite things about RPGs is their combat, I find it's usually more resource-oriented and strategic than any other genre. Plus there's the gratification reward of becoming steadily more powerful as you overcome challenges.

I guess my question is, am I supposed to think of U7 more as an adventure game, or should I think of it more like Gothic in that combat is extremely risky and dangerous for the majority of the game? In either case, how do I kill, or at least survive, the deer?

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

I answer the tarot shit and land in the town.

Huh? Are you playing a different Ultima VII than I?

If your complaints start with the intro, maybe the game isn't for you. I usually travel through Paws to Britain after I'm done with Trinsic. Seems pretty straightforward, I'm sure the northern road leads there, and if you start travelling south, the Guardian will tell you that you're travelling in the wrong direction iirc.
I talk to the people I meet, which leads to quests and stuff. That's what leads me through the game.
Combat is worthless, and so are the traditional RPG mechanics.

I thought there was the tarot character creation thing like in other Ultima games, maybe I got it confused.

Am I to assume the booming voice (I guess the Guardian?) is a bad guy? Is he the vomit ghost? Is anything supposed to make sense at this part of the game or do you come across other vomit ghosts and finally figure out where they come from?

It's really the combat that makes me fucking mad. One of my favorite things about RPGs is their combat, I find it's usually more resource-oriented and strategic than any other genre. Plus there's the gratification reward of becoming steadily more powerful as you overcome challenges.

I guess my question is, am I supposed to think of U7 more as an adventure game, or should I think of it more like Gothic in that combat is extremely risky and dangerous for the majority of the game? In either case, how do I kill, or at least survive, the deer?

 

[mirrorshades]

I think a couple things might be going on. Firstoff...

Several times I would turn on a debug hack that let me move anything and go into the cheat room. Use the warp map to explore shit like the island under the compass rose, or just warp into Britain. Get the super spell book and fuck around with it, cast Armageddon and see Lord British qq at me. Pick up stuff like parts of walls or the observatory's telescope and carry them around with me in my microsize bag of holding.

Without fail, anytime I have used any kind of cheat/hack/savegame editor, it has ruined the game for me. All the challenge is gone, and it just sort of turns into the ultimate big sandbox to run around in and do whatever you like. Fun if you like that kind of thing, but spoils the game if the game wasn't meant to be played like that.

Another thought... I enjoyed playing U7, but I also enjoyed playing 3, 4, and 5 beforehand. I'm not sure what coming straight into U7 "cold turkey" would be like, but I enjoyed it because I was already familiar with the setting and plenty of back-story. Perhaps the buy-in to find out what continues to happen in Brittania is part of what makes the game so enjoyable -- I already know my way around (more or less), I know a lot of the characters, I know how magic/combat/items work... so it's easier to get into the story.

Oddly enough, even though I liked 3, really liked 4, and really really liked 5, I could never get into playing 6. Not sure why, I think it had to do mainly with the massive overhaul to the interface which -- in my U5 fandom -- I was not a big fan of.

Not everyone likes every game... so don't feel guilty if U7 doesn't do it for you. There might be one in the series you like, just might not be 7. (I never really played U7 part 2 either, though I hear it's got a lot over on the first part.)

$0.02. Adjust for inflation or exchange as appropriate.

 

[RK47]

There was no challenge. You can't really die, the hard part is the environmental puzzle that forces avatar to die over and over and over till he gets it.

Ultima 7 is the first grind free, loot-free ( I hardly find much use with gold) and combat is merely a press of a button and let the numbers do it for you. The lesser focus on combat makes exploration and conversation the main draw of the game. It gets frustrating when someone dies and you can't find the pixel to resurrect them though.

 

[Zomg]

The silly, incoherent way that they make the avatar a person from the real world kills the game for me.

 

[BLOBERT]

I just remember the game drawing me in like a motherfucker. I played 3 on the NES, never played 4, 5 on the C64 and 6 on the SNES. 7 still clicked for me.

I agree the combat was crap, but it was the exploration of the world that did it for me.

 

[AlanC9]

I guess my question is, am I supposed to think of U7 more as an adventure game, or should I think of it more like Gothic in that combat is extremely risky and dangerous for the majority of the game?

Adventure game, or maybe JRPG, isn't a bad way to think of U7. You're physically free, but plot-restricted, and the game really isn't about the combat. Unfortunately, combat is necessary to advance levels.

 

[Fez]

What kind of state is Exult in now? Is it still "broken" or only partially working?

 

[Jaesun]

What kind of state is Exult in now? Is it still "broken" or only partially working?

I finished Part 1 + forge just fine quite a few months ago with no problems/bugs. What problems were you having?

 

[Fez]

Well, last time I played an early version that had well known problems, but I was wanting to replay it now with Exult. I've been holding off because of the claims that it still doesn't fully implement everything, the NPCs not having all the same interactivity and so on. undead dolphin hacker isn't the first one I've heard mention issues with it. I'd rather not miss out on the full experience if that was the case. Any news or gossip on that?

 

[Binary]

It is of course difficult to play in 2008 an early 90s RPG for the first time.

To me, U7 brings a different set of memories. The game is very good but the immediate lack of a "threat" may throw some people off. U7.5 holds the player by the hand, U7 is more of a free world (U6 balances this perfectly imho)

What's wrong with Exult with high resolutions? It seems to be the only appealing thing of trying exult. Otherwise, I'll boot DOSBox, plug my midi2usb box, my Roland MT32 and enjoy this lovely game as it should be played.

 

[Jasede]

No, the appealing thing in Exult are shaders and the "read" flag if you're a queer.

The high-resolutions make eggs pop up you shouldn't see yet. And that's bad if the egg is flagged "trigger on sight". They might have fixed that by now, but I somewhat doubt it.

 

[Andhaira]

You can make the combat more fun by opening your inventory during the combat to 'pause' it; it can help you figure out what to do next.

However, the combat is still fun (though not near as full turnbased would be)

It also gets more fun once you get your spellbook and start casting!

 

[Jiles]

Well, last time I played an early version that had well known problems, but I was wanting to replay it now with Exult. I've been holding off because of the claims that it still doesn't fully implement everything, the NPCs not having all the same interactivity and so on. undead dolphin hacker isn't the first one I've heard mention issues with it. I'd rather not miss out on the full experience if that was the case. Any news or gossip on that?

NPC schedules are better in 1.4. There's still some work, but it has improved. There's also some sexy scalers in 1.4, but the current snapshot seems a bit wonky.

 

[Binary]

No, the appealing thing in Exult are shaders and the "read" flag if you're a queer.

The high-resolutions make eggs pop up you shouldn't see yet. And that's bad if the egg is flagged "trigger on sight". They might have fixed that by now, but I somewhat doubt it.

Not sure what you mean by "high-resolutions". The original game is 320x200. By high resolutions do you mean
a) using a different base resolution
b) using same resolution but a 2x scaling
c) either will bring problems

 

[Jasede]

I mean doing something that allows you to see more than the original 320x200.

That had some issues in earlier Exult versions. That said, I never noticed any - however, I always kept using shaders to such a degree that the visibility was still as it was with 320x200.

 

[Elwro]

The silly, incoherent way that they make the avatar a person from the real world kills the game for me.

QFT.

Also, undead dolphin hacker, I have similar impressions of UVII. I've tried a few times, with Exult and without it. But well-done NPC schedules are too little to keep me playing.

 

[undead dolphin hacker]

I guess the dilemma is that I've felt strangely compelled to play older RPGs recently. I think it started when I remember I had a boxed Star Trail, which made me decide it was time to finally get past character creation in an RoA game.

Same thing with World of Xeen, I keep seeing the CDs from it and remembering how I enjoyed it and thinking "I really should replay that."

The Complete Ultima 7, however, is standing in the corner, shadowed, glaring at me.

 

[RK47]

just go play Arcanum for a while then tell me if you've managed to spend only 5 mins on character creation screen.

 

[Chork]

I tried to enjoy U7 but between the combat, the jerky movement and the UI I just couldn't stand finishing it.

Maybe I'm just spoiled by modern interfaces but it seems like the earlier Ultimas aged a lot better.

 

[Claw]

Am I to assume the booming voice (I guess the Guardian?) is a bad guy?

I think the whole point of the intro is that this strange guy you've never seen before talks to you in your sleep, prompting you to return to Britannia to find out WTF is going on.
However, a red face with teeth like broken stone declaring it's gonna rule Britannia and be my master, followed by a maniac laugh. I'm pretty confident that's a clue.

Is he the vomit ghost? Is anything supposed to make sense at this part of the game or do you come across other vomit ghosts and finally figure out where they come from?

The vomiting confused me as well, I assume it's because of the gruesome murder scene.

It's really the combat that makes me fucking mad.

I'm sure that's the purpose of Ultima VII's combat. I couldn't think of any other.

I guess my question is, am I supposed to think of U7 more as an adventure game

Yeah.

In either case, how do I kill, or at least survive, the deer?

There is a combat trainer in Trinsic. Beyond that, stay on the bloody roads. I'm pretty sure I could travel to Britannia without getting into any fights. I might be wrong, but the only times I actually got into trouble early on was when I wandered off in the wrong direction.
I'm not entirely sure how you earn experience in Ultima VII. Do quests give you any? Or just through killing? In any case, I would travel to Paws and then Britain, talking to people and solving quests along the way. You should get your spellbook in LB's castle somehow, maybe from the man himself. You may also aquire some gear that'll help you survive along the way.
I can't say I recall ever being killed by a deer, though. When I ran into trouble, it was at least headless or something.
I wonder if the game runs too fast on your computer. How do you run it? I have to run it either in Exult or DosBox. I use D-Fend to manage my profiles.