Do you do Navarro runs? (Fallout 2)

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

EDIT: It really pisses me off how people MUST have constant reminders that this is a post-apocalyptic setting everywhere they go. The thing that probably annoyed me the most in New Vegas was the fact that inhabited areas were in post-war shape and had those fucking broken picket fences. NCR and Vault City looked good because it was clear the people living there weren't just scavenger fucks. I mean, I can understand some tribal shitheads living in sheet metal shanties, but for fuck's sake people there's a fucking forest just over there, get yourself some planks.

Yep, or in general how the world doesn't make a lick of sense. Wherever you go, you just keep asking "Why's this like that, why don't they do this or that... Why is everything so fucking shitty?".

 

[Wyrmlord]

It also bears mention that the towns that produce energy or other useful things are generally cleaner and in better shape than towns like New Reno or Den (which are clearly horrible shitholes full of scum and villainy). Not to mention have considerably less chance of ending up in a fight.

Then there's the fact you actually see a cornfield (as you do in New Vegas, meaning that people don't just eat rotten donuts), and there are cattle barons in the NCR. And of course, you can visit (= raid) a drug lab in New Reno.

EDIT: It really pisses me off how people MUST have constant reminders that this is a post-apocalyptic setting everywhere they go. The thing that probably annoyed me the most in New Vegas was the fact that inhabited areas were in post-war shape and had those fucking broken picket fences. NCR and Vault City looked good because it was clear the people living there weren't just scavenger fucks. I mean, I can understand some tribal shitheads living in sheet metal shanties, but for fuck's sake people there's a fucking forest just over there, get yourself some planks.

Even in the first Fallout, the Hub in the middle of the desert was being rebuilt and with some fairly decent state of civic affairs.

 

[Renegen]

It also bears mention that the towns that produce energy or other useful things are generally cleaner and in better shape than towns like New Reno or Den (which are clearly horrible shitholes full of scum and villainy). Not to mention have considerably less chance of ending up in a fight.

Then there's the fact you actually see a cornfield (as you do in New Vegas, meaning that people don't just eat rotten donuts), and there are cattle barons in the NCR. And of course, you can visit (= raid) a drug lab in New Reno.

EDIT: It really pisses me off how people MUST have constant reminders that this is a post-apocalyptic setting everywhere they go. The thing that probably annoyed me the most in New Vegas was the fact that inhabited areas were in post-war shape and had those fucking broken picket fences. NCR and Vault City looked good because it was clear the people living there weren't just scavenger fucks. I mean, I can understand some tribal shitheads living in sheet metal shanties, but for fuck's sake people there's a fucking forest just over there, get yourself some planks.

Blame Fallout 3 and Bethesda for that. The whole world made no sense at all, it was green everywhere, you hardly had any actual sustainable towns, everyone acted like the bombs had fallen a few years earlier. And yet somehow the Enclave wanted to control this meaningless piece of dirt.

New Vegas as I see it is a valiant effort to bring the Fallout universe back to what it was, a post-apocalyptic world where people are rebuilding. The emphasis on the "cowboy" theme was a good compromise between a theme that would be understood by the tards but that also fitted with a world trying to rebuild. Fallout 3 was just horrible with its 50s theme. In NV, you had actual factions vying for dominance, agriculture, and hell, you even had electricity, and we were told where it came from!

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

In my experience, people who like Fallout 2 also tend to be people who like KotOR 2 and Alpha Protocol i.e. core Obsidian fans and the Avellone crowd.

Sweet methodical induction bro, but I for once enjoy KoTOR2 but am not that of a fan of F2, and I dislike Alpha Unbrotocol. I think you need to work on your criticism a bit to make it valid, of course my advice to you is not to go all out English and write unending paragraphs in order to make your point sound sensible, but rather to tell everyone to suck your dick

Furthermore, in my first playthrough, I never bothered in any single town for more than a few minutes, thinking, "Nah, what else is there?" Doing so caused me to stumble upon Mariposa Military Base quickly, leading me directly to San Francisco, leading me to Navarro. I really just forgot about the main quest despite reminders, because seeing this world of slavers and whatnot, it felt like Arroyo's problems (dying cattle and crops) were trivial by comparison.

It's hard to generate sympathy for us progressive thinkers when faced with the fate of a shitty little tribal village, isn't it?

What I dislike about F1 and 2 is its character system. Despite what people say about it, it's absolutely possible to make a character that will be able to do everything in the game. If anything, Bioware games offer more varied experiences depending on how you build your character. I'm serious about this (of course I am boyo). In Fallout, all you can do to have a "different experience" is to willingly not metagame and gimp yourself, or, make a dumb character, which is swell, but not enough. Oh ya, you can also go for a melee character instead of ranged, but that's about it. There's no point playing a "scientist" or some nonsense, because you can do every science-related tasks without putting a point in the skill if you know what you're doing.

It's because the levelling up system in Fallout is fucked up. You can reliably shoot people in the eyes on level 3.

 

[Phelot]

New Vegas as I see it is a valiant effort to bring the Fallout universe back to what it was, a post-apocalyptic world where people are rebuilding. The emphasis on the "cowboy" theme was a good compromise between a theme that would be understood by the tards but that also fitted with a world trying to rebuild. Fallout 3 was just horrible with its 50s theme. In NV, you had actual factions vying for dominance, agriculture, and hell, you even had electricity, and we were told where it came from!

Well, the first two FO's had a 50's theme but it was very subtle most of the time instead of the in-you-face FO3 50's that seemed to be working hard to prove that "Hey, we know Fallout!"

FNV was nice in that it kind of went out on its own, trying to distance itself, at least a little bit from the rest of the Fallout universe.

TBH, I hope they abandon all of the factions from the previous games when they make the inevitable FO4.

 

[Quetzacoatl]

Nope, mostly because of the Enclave and Remnants random encounters.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Yep, or in general how the world doesn't make a lick of sense. Wherever you go, you just keep asking "Why's this like that, why don't they do this or that... Why is everything so fucking shitty?".

well for me it's a suspension of belief, not having 1% of les stroud's technical knowledge and possibly lowered expectations as towards realism
I never really thought of fallout as a hardbore real thing with 100% thought out setting down to sustainability of daily life anyway, more of a vehicle for grounded reactions to pulpy post apocalyptic scenarios

with that said I think fallout 3 gave you a major aneurysm with the absolutely disgraceful scale of the cities and scavenger themepark world

Well, the first two FO's had a 50's theme but it was very subtle most of the time instead of the in-you-face FO3 50's that seemed to be working hard to prove that "Hey, we know Fallout!"

yeah, all the new shits and 'FO3 is a better game' people always point to bethesda's ramping up of the 50s thing into a 100% saturation as them doing it better

with that kind of logic all the extra predators and aliens in alien versus predator made it a superb movie

 

[WetWorks]

I think i may have done this once.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

It also bears mention that the towns that produce energy or other useful things are generally cleaner and in better shape than towns like New Reno or Den (which are clearly horrible shitholes full of scum and villainy). Not to mention have considerably less chance of ending up in a fight.

Then there's the fact you actually see a cornfield (as you do in New Vegas, meaning that people don't just eat rotten donuts), and there are cattle barons in the NCR. And of course, you can visit (= raid) a drug lab in New Reno.

EDIT: It really pisses me off how people MUST have constant reminders that this is a post-apocalyptic setting everywhere they go. The thing that probably annoyed me the most in New Vegas was the fact that inhabited areas were in post-war shape and had those fucking broken picket fences. NCR and Vault City looked good because it was clear the people living there weren't just scavenger fucks. I mean, I can understand some tribal shitheads living in sheet metal shanties, but for fuck's sake people there's a fucking forest just over there, get yourself some planks.

Blame Fallout 3 and Bethesda for that. The whole world made no sense at all, it was green everywhere, you hardly had any actual sustainable towns, everyone acted like the bombs had fallen a few years earlier. And yet somehow the Enclave wanted to control this meaningless piece of dirt.

New Vegas as I see it is a valiant effort to bring the Fallout universe back to what it was, a post-apocalyptic world where people are rebuilding. The emphasis on the "cowboy" theme was a good compromise between a theme that would be understood by the tards but that also fitted with a world trying to rebuild. Fallout 3 was just horrible with its 50s theme. In NV, you had actual factions vying for dominance, agriculture, and hell, you even had electricity, and we were told where it came from!

Indeed. I'm actually partially inclined to blame the fact there's trash everywhere in NV on Bethesda assets and the fan expectations caused by Bethout. Since NV has a huge amount of details that show people put effort on giving the game world details that show people actually live in it (ie, crops, electric appliances commonly connected to batteries, water pipelines, caravan companies, etc). It's just that there's so many places with non-sensical garbage (or picket fences) lying around (NCR embassy being an especial case), but it's a minor irritation at the end of the day.

What really burns my ass though is the people saying they prefered FO3's wasteland because "it was more like a wasteland."

EDIT: Btw sgc, I totally agree with you that regarding Fallout series as being super-realistic is inane and missing the point (since it is pulpy as fuck). It's just that having the game help you a bit with suspension of disbelief goes a long way, which is where giving an illusion or an image of a logically functioning world comes in.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

EDIT: Btw sgc, I totally agree with you that regarding Fallout series as being super-realistic is inane and missing the point (since it is pulpy as fuck). It's just that having the game help you a bit with suspension of disbelief goes a long way, which is where giving an illusion or an image of a logically functioning world comes in.

oh definitely, see what I said about FO3 after that bit on suspension of belief

a coherent gameworld isn't crucial, but there's a difference between having nonessential details abstracted out of the foreground and having the lack of said details smack you in the face and shriek "tag you're it"

oh fallout 3 has better atmosphere what the shit are you talking about you hitchhiking hobo larping cloned subway apologist fucks

 

[I.C. Wiener]

TBH, I hope they abandon all of the factions from the previous games when they make the inevitable FO4.

Since it's going to be made by Bethesda and the best faction they came up with was the Talon Company (stupid evil mercs hired by the Plot Hole Corporation to shoot innocents on sight) I don't think it would be any better than yellow super mutants and the east coast BoS.

I'm more hopeful they keep geographical distance from the west coast so they don't touch the storylines going on over there, even if they have to regurgitate butchered parodies of the series' primary factions. Since they love aliens so much I think Jupiter would suffice.

I also would like to see new factions from whomever (non bethesda) gets a whack at the series for the next spin-off... except, I'd also like to see the Legion again in a minor role so their only appearance in the series isn't as one dimensionally evil dorks who play dress up. Something like the Remnants were portrayed in NV, except they didn't need it as much as the Legion does.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

well for me it's a suspension of belief, not having 1% of les stroud's technical knowledge and possibly lowered expectations as towards realism
I never really thought of fallout as a hardbore real thing with 100% thought out setting down to sustainability of daily life anyway, more of a vehicle for grounded reactions to pulpy post apocalyptic scenarios

with that said I think fallout 3 gave you a major aneurysm with the absolutely disgraceful scale of the cities and scavenger themepark world

Well, I can only suspend my disbelief when I'm not bored, which is not the case when you're crawl-speed moving from place a to place b and shooting the occasional bloatfly. Whereas in F2 the guy runs pretty fast to begin with, map movement is pretty fast and then you even get the car. Why can't I get a car here? Or some riding animal? Whatever happened to Vertibirds? Ok there's a place I should go to, can't teleport to there yet so I have to walk for 10 minutes, watching the boring scenery and mostly thinking about things in the game.

Yeah, F3 feels pretty much like a joke all around.

 

[Gord]

What really burns my ass though is the people saying they prefered FO3's wasteland because "it was more like a wasteland."

I would like to see some cRPG set in post-apoc scenario where the apoc has happened not too long ago. Maybe a Fallout prequel, ten or 20 years after the war, the first vaults open and you're confronted with survival in a world that has not even begun recovering yet.
Set in a real wasteland (i.e. one that makes sense).

 

[laclongquan]

your trolling doesnt work, Wyrmie.

I have never played KOTOR2 or Alpha Protocol so I cant say if your accusation is correct or not. Time will tell.

But Fallout 2 is MOAR of Fallout 1 with every details get polished, cleaned up.

YOu ever get tired of scrolling through inventory? At least F2 got page up page down. that is a small example of the UI clunkiness of F1.

Fallout2 got that theme thingy work quite well: New Reno is a Las Vegas of wasteland, NCR is cattle town, Broken Hill and Redding are mining town, Vault City is yuppie town. San Francisco is a ghost city deflate down to a small town. In term of that, what F1 got? mebbe Junktown which reminiscent of a Mad Max movie scene. Frankly many towns of F1 is slightly resemble each other. Realistic true, but not a recommended design in a game.

The characters of F2 are better designed and well-thought of. From the Tribal to the uber-geek, from the grizzled barkeeper to the weird quack. And your spouse, I consider that a fine joke from the game devs. A shotgun wedding? A divorce by a drunk priest? and divorced by selling your spouse into slavery? hehheh.

The quests are, many, well designed. Like the quest scouting southern NCR for Vault City, the destruction of Bishop-funded Raider base, the assassination of Vice President of NCR, etc. A lot of quest that tied together into one main trunk but it's entirely a series of sidequest that can be skipped if you are not careful.

I said it before and I will repeat it however many times necessary: the only way you can think Fallout 1 a great game is because you played it before Fallout 2. If you play F2 first, F1 became a good but bland game, unmemorable.

EDIT: no, I never did Navarro speed run or Bozar stealing. Where's the rush in that? You might as well use a trainer or editor. By Vault City it's easy enough.

 

[Gord]

I said it before and I will repeat it however many times necessary: the only way you can think Fallout 1 a great game is because you played it before Fallout 2. If you play F2 first, F1 became a good but bland game, unmemorable.

Not quite. It's still the more atmospheric game.
Also together with good content, FO2 also turned up the amount of silly stuff (ghosts in FO? I don't know...).
And the lulzy stuff, for that matter.

Ah well, it's really complaining on a high level.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Fallout 2 felt like it was trying to justify itself in part with all the new content, focusing on the novelty of X and Y experience compared to fallout 1 and trying to upstage it hollywood sequel style rather than continuing in a firm pace along the same lines.

In hindsight I would have preferred more work on the character system but fallout 2 ends up being an analogue to the movie with fun bits that you can rewatch again and again and then put most of it out of your mind but fallout 1 will the one you need watch once or twice and still remember all of it fondly.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

What really burns my ass though is the people saying they prefered FO3's wasteland because "it was more like a wasteland."

I would like to see some cRPG set in post-apoc scenario where the apoc has happened not too long ago. Maybe a Fallout prequel, ten or 20 years after the war, the first vaults open and you're confronted with survival in a world that has not even begun recovering yet.
Set in a real wasteland (i.e. one that makes sense).

Nigga, the only choice is to make it happen right WHEN the war happens and go from there, Survivalist's Logs style.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

Nigga, the only choice is to make it happen right WHEN the war happens and go from there, Survivalist's Logs style.

silent hill: the room
fallout: the bunker
cleve: the awakening

 

[muffildy]

navarro

I dont do navarro runs, but i do tend to meta-game it a bit; like ill usually try to get to san fran for unarmed training, and then the boxing bags for a bit more, and then taking drugs to lower my abilities and training myself in that state so i spend less skill points to get more skill gain.
All in all i loved the fallout games, the only real problem i had with it was random encounters - you could for example encounter things you had absolutely no chance of beating quite often, or encounter a caravan under attack by X and end up with 15000 in loot that you didnt really earn.

I do love biowhore games for the most part - npc banter/interaction is one of the best features of a game - i only wish more people would mod in new characters to play with like they do for bg2. Because of the bland actual gameplay however i must say biowhore games dont have a whole lot going for them in replay value.

 

[Skittles]

With respect, I don't really buy the "it's too lulzy compared to FO1" criticism of FO2. The first thing you see stepping out of Vault 13 is a corpse with the description "You see Ed. Ed is dead." The lulz and pop culture references are an integral part of both games. Even the intro is kind of lulzy, in a darker sort of way, with the straight up murder of the bound Canadian POW--"Support our boys" the ad tells us as two giants in power suits violently massacre somebody for fun and then wave to their mothers back home. It's a pretty clear reference to the photo of the bound Vietcong spy being executed by US friendly forces taken during the Vietnam war.

If that's not enough, one of my first random encounters always happens to be two-headed cattle milling about, declaring "Moo, I say." Pop culture images and absurd humour abounds.

And for good reason. Wouldn't it be tiresome if the whole game were monotone? A Ron Perlman voiceover saying "War. War never changes." for twenty hours? If I wanted straight faced "This is war, this is strife, this is survival and it sucks hard" for the length of a game, I'd play COD or something. Instead, I'm playing a game where I can find the TARDIS for no damn reason other than the lulz, the counter point to the slavery and violence and dickery of the wasteland. If you want a game without that, I'm not sure either Fallout is your cup of tea.

 

[betamin]

FO2 to me was more enjoyable and fun, and the silliness of it only contributed.