Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

An overlooked gem from Koei (the producer of Nobunaga's Amibition and other historic simulations)

felicity

Scholar
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
339
I was looking at Koei’s more obscure titles and discovered this interesting spin-off from their Nobunaga’s Ambition series.

Kunitori Zunou Battle: Nobunaga Yabou (or Province-taking Brain Battle) is a sengoku setting turn-based strategy game released on the DS which unfortunately has not been translated. Why should I care then? You may ask. Well first off this is probably Koei's most innovative attempt at strategy game for which the developers deserve some brofists from the internets, and, who knows, maybe it will generate enough interests for a fan-translation. The game plays more like a board game than a typical historical simulator from Koei, which is a pleasant surprise. The mechanics are quite interesting in that successful strategies in this game often defy general rules that tend to work in strategy game.

The second reason is more practical: the game rules are simple enough that the bar of language to enjoy this game is pretty low. You will need to reference a guide for cards and skills effects, and that’s about it. There are icons where necessary the only real obstacle would be the victory conditions which only has a few variants so it should not be difficult to figure out, and if all else failed you still have to option of just conquering everyone.

I was going to write a detailed guide but found out someone already did it.

Game mechanics explained

Skill & Card reference
 

felicity

Scholar
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
339
Here I have made a more condensed guide with pictures for those who opt not to visit the much less prestigious gaming website gamefaqs.

For a more detailed explanation of basic mechanics checkout here and for skill&card descriptions, refer to this.


WeGo turn-based system (or simultaneous turn)

H7PS8.jpg

Koei is known for their Dynasty Warriors historical simulators featuring deep and complex mechanics

Campaign map of the Kinai region. The game mostly involves moving generals which are represented by chess pieces across the board from node to node in a Risk-like fashion.The number under the chess pieces represents the total strength of the pieces in a node. Orders are executed when you press the end turn button, same for enemies. When your piece moves into an unoccupied node you automatically take control of that node. If that node is occupied by an enemy, then a battle will happen.

General, skill and card:

Q2FnA.jpg


General has 5 attributes:
1. Strength value which represents the strength of the unit.
2. Cost - the cost to use this general, must be within the total cost set by the scenario.
3. Card - one time only special ability that when you choose to use it, it will fire at the start of the action phase.
4. Skill - skill that has a chance to fire during battle. The chance is randomly decided at the start of a turn, but if it will fire this turn then the game tells you by putting a small icon at the bottom of chess piece of that general.
5. Level - increases the chance of general's skill firing, note that this level is different from unit level.

Units have two attributes - type and level

G3piG.jpg

I am not a graphic whore but...

Battles are resolved automatically. Each side exchanges fire and casualties are computed then the units return to the nodes they originate. Units that drop to zero strength "die" and they return to the reserve force of their owner, which can be redeployed after a few turns.

Type advantage

frQZb.jpg

Can't we move on with this cliche already?

Units are classified into three types: Horse, Spear and Musket. One type is stronger than the next, in a simple rock-paper-scissors fashion, Horse beats Spear, Spear beats Musket, Musket beats Horse. The stronger type does double damage to the stronger type, while the weaker type does zero damage to the weaker type. You didn't really read what I was typing right?

Units can level up by fighting series of battles without dying. Level 1 does 1 basic damage and each level +1 basic damage, to the maximum 3 basic damage at Level 3.

Example: Attacker: Horse(level 1) of 4 strength vs Defender: Spear(level 1) of 4 strength. Horse deals 2 damage to Spear, then Spear returns fire which deals 0 damage. When battle ends the results look like this: Attacker: Horse 4, Defender: Spear 2.

As you may have noticed damage capability is not affected by the strength of the unit but only the unit type (Horse/Spear/Musket).



Damage is determined by unit type, not strength

0CBp7.jpg

Less is Moar

Example: Attacker: Horse 3(Level 2) vs Defender: Spear 4 + Spear 5

The tricky part of this scenario is that each side gets to fire once on every unit on the other side so
each Spear on the defending side takes 4 damage(attacker is level 2 so 2 basic damage, x2 since horse beats spear). Similarly if the attacking side had multiple units each of them will also receive damage. One implication of this mechanic is that piecemeal attack is better than attacking with all your units at once, since no matter how many unit you bring you can only fire once in a battle, so by launching an attack in waves you can actually cause more damage than putting everything you got in one shot.

Example 1: A: 4+4 (Horse) vs D: 4+4(Spear)
Result: 2 damage to each Spear

Example 2: A: 4(Horse) vs D: 4+4(Spear)
Result: 2 damage to each Spear

Example 3: A: 4+4(horse) vs D: Horse 4 + Musket 4
Result: 2 damage to each Horse on the attacker's side, 1 damage to Horse, 0 damage to Musket on the defender's side.

What about A: Horse 4 + Musket 4 vs 4 + 4 (Spear) then?
The answer is only one unit type can be brought into battle in an offence, so you have to choose between attacking with Horse 4 or Musket 4.

NOTE: the unit type that deals the most damage is chosen as the damage dealer

cCTBf.jpg

Ouch

Example: In this scenario the Musket is the only damage dealer on the defender's side. Judging from the pixels the Muskets are at least level 2 so 2x2 = 4 damage to each Horse unit.

Overrun your opponent by bringing more of the same

TX5hc.jpg


You may ask why would you attack with more than one unit then? One reason is that if the strength of the attacker is greater than the defender, then the attacker automatically wins and will move into the node the defender was occupying. This mechanic I call it "Overrun". Note: only the attacker can perform Overrun.

The Overrun mechanic let you override the limitations of rock-paper-scissors. A Horse 10 can beat a Musket 9 because of Overrun, which otherwise wouldn't happen. But there must be a catch right? Indeed the catch is that lower strength units get to move first, which means in the above example, Horse 10 will never be able to overrun Musket 9 because the Musket will move before the Horse, and a Musket launching an attack on Horse 10 will reduce its strength to Horse 8, which will not be enough to overrun a strength 9 unit.

Example: We have a Spear 1 and a Spear 9, enemy has two Spear 5. We both ordered the units to move seperately into the same node. The action sequences are: Spear 1(mine), Spear 5(enemy's), Spear 5(enemy's), Spear 9(mine). When two units have the same strength, it is randomly determined which goes first.

As you will find in actual play, moving your units in a massive blob is very inefficient and makes you susceptible to attack, since a high total strength means that massive army of doom will also be the last to move. It takes only a few attacks to completely neutralize a large army(see picture above for example). Prediction is key.


Income and upgrades

Every six turns you can upgrade your units and castles. Each upgrade increases the strength of your unit/castle by 1. Upgrading costs money which is deducted from your treasury. You can increase income by capturing nodes. Some nodes have higher income than others and some node even have special facilities that give you additional bonus. Here is a list of the faciliities and explanation of what they do.

6gvUI.jpg
Castle

The most important facility. Castle has many functions. For one any friendly unit located at a node where the castle is present will restore 1 strength at the start of a turn. Castle also has strength of its own which helps preventing Overrun against your army. In defending if none of your units could deal damage to the attackers, the castle will deal 1 damage to the attacking units. You can also put units into a castle which return them to reserve force. They will be fully healed can be redeployed after 3 turns. NOTE: units that die (being Overrun, or strength reduced to 0) will takes 4 turns to redeploy. NOTE#2: Units are deployed in action phase, meaning you can't deploy and move in the same turn!

yUmox.jpg
MaZkl.jpg
ZfvOz.jpg
From left to right: Stable, Town, Blacksmith.
These facilities have similar function. They increase the number of times your units can upgrade and increase the chance of general's skill firing for their respective type. Stable - Horse; Town - Spear; Blacksmith - Musket.

gqFoJ.jpg
zRyJG.jpg
Goldmine, Church
They both increase the income of a node.

ZgHWY.jpg
Harbour
Heal any units by 1 strength. That's it. It has nothing to do with naval movement.

That covered the basics I think. I don't expect many will play this game or read this but I will still check this thread from time to time. If you have encountered problems or just don't know where to start I will try to help.
 

felicity

Scholar
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
339
Seems very very basic. Cant see how its an overlooked gem.
Having simple rules doesn't mean there is no strategic depth. In fact some of the best strategic games often have very simple rules, like chess and board games like Go.
 

Lord Chambers

Erudite
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,018
Units are classified into three types: Horse, Spear and Musket. One type is stronger than the next, in a simple rock-paper-scissors fashion, Horse beats Spear, Spear beats Musket, Musket beats Horse. The stronger type does double damage to the stronger type, while the weaker type does zero damage to the weaker type. You didn't really read what I was typing right?

I did read what you were typing, and it didn't make sense to me. Granted, most of what I know about historical militaries is from computer games, it seems backward, like scissors beating paper. If horses charged spears, they would be at a disadvantage. If spears tried to close the distance against muskets, they would be shot to pieces.
 

Malakal

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Nov 14, 2009
Messages
10,285
Location
Poland
Yea. seemed crazy to me too. Cavalry was always considered the archer/skirmisher killer and spears were developed to stop cavalry.

Well, if they were going by realism spears should beat all and after that musket should beat all. Not fun so the basic spear>horse>musket>spear should work. No idea why they changed it.
 

felicity

Scholar
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
339
The muskets beats cavalry logic I guess is based on the Battle of Nagashino where Oda's employment of 3000 arquebusiers significantly contributed to defeating Takeda's elite cavalry. Ashigaru were the spearmen in that period. They were mostly peasants and for the most part were unreliable soldiers. A cavalry charge could easily route them.

There is no unique properties for troop type in the game so it doesn't really matter.
 

TigerKnee

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,920
This is my favourite game on the DS.

It scratches the same sort of itch that something like Advance Wars does, in that it's also an easy "pick up and play" strategy game when you're on the go and have 5-30 minutes to kill.

But unlike Advance Wars, instead of extremely slow pushes with tons of infantry and artillery, it's a lot faster-paced and focused on offense. You'll never be able to hold territories for long so you're basically always pushing for new ones while trying to retain the most valuable locations.

Well, what can I say. If you don't mind Japanese, it's really fun in the board-gamey kind of way.
 

felicity

Scholar
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
339
TigerKnee said:
But unlike Advance Wars, instead of extremely slow pushes with tons of infantry and artillery, it's a lot faster-paced and focused on offense. You'll never be able to hold territories for long so you're basically always pushing for new ones while trying to retain the most valuable locations.

Yes the mechanics rewards offense though playing defensive is still viable just not the traditional way by hoarding armies in a fortification. I have found some success by bluffing enemies into committing piece meal attack on my castle by stationing just enough troops to prevent overrun then pull back when the AI is about to attack. The castle will damage their units and often rendering them useless in further assault. This probably doesn't work against human though.

Damned Registrations said:
Koei gem you say?
Koei was awesome and used to make various themes of strategy games. They had airline corp sim, horse racing sim and even dating sim. They were never very innovative though when it comes to mechanics. The mechanics in this game is pretty elegant that I would not expect from Koei but they outdone themselves this time.
 
Joined
Aug 21, 2009
Messages
717
I really enjoyed both Royal Blood 1 & 2, but they (especially the first) were quite simplistic. Fun though.

Koei in general used to be magnificent, then they sold their souls to the DW-tards. A sad day indeed.
 

felicity

Scholar
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
339
Yeah Koei is real decline nowaday. Well at least they still have the integrity to make new releases of Nobunaga's Ambition and R3K every few years.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom