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Serpent's Tongue

Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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I could've sworn we had a topic for this, but search turned up nothing. Anyway, Serpent's Tongue finally entered manufacturing somewhere between 6 to 9 months over schedule. They have preorders up on their site for people who missed the kickstarter at a fairly heavy discount. Fair warning: I backed the kickstarter so I'm somewhat biased about this game.

Either way. Serpent's Tongue is a CCG where people play magi casting spells to try and blow each other up. But it has some key differences to set it apart from Magic: The gathering.
Instead of building a deck of cards and drawing a hand of those after shuffling, each player has an honest-to-god spell book with pockets to store their spells in. At the start of any round, you select up to 3 of these spells to "prepare" by moving them into the pocket on the first page of the spell book. These are the spells you are able to cast for that round, and the ones you don't are moved back to their spot in the book.
Instead of tapping lands like in magic, spells have an activation cost. This can come from several currencies, "resonance" being the most common. An equal (random) amount is generated every round for all players. They can gain more by using their casting actions to meditate instead of casting spells and some spells even give you resonance instead of consuming it as part of their cost. Others may draw from your hit points or require you to discard spells you already have in play as their activation cost.

The game comes with a significant amount of LARP. This is the major draw for some and for others it'll probably be a huge turnoff. The LARP primarily manifests itself in how people cast spells. Besides paying the resonance/matter/essence/whatever once activated, people have to speak the spell out loud to activate it. Depending on the complexity of the spell, its name could be between 2-6 syllables. There is a glyph on the card which corresponds to a map inside your spell book with the various syllables of the Serpents Tongue, allowing you to translate unfamiliar spells on the fly. Higher-level spells may also require you to make specific gestures as part of their activation. Failing the enunciation makes the spell fizzle and deducts resonance for the player. The game also has a timer, so people will have a strict(ish) time limit to translate their spell if they haven't memorized it.

The LARP continues into the written material. There's a draft PDF of the tutorial up written as a 2-player LARP session which seems to do a pretty good job of covering the game mechanics up here: http://www.becomemagi.com/walkthrough-draft/

The game is also supposed to ship with a co-operative campaign called Out of Eden where 2 or more players team up to fight PvE encounters and/or each other. Again, this is something I find pretty appealing but will probably turn off people who aren't into LARPing during their board game sessions. Finally, the game comes with PvE encounter cards that players can try to defeat solo or as a group. The card details an enemy's stats and has a table you roll on to determine what the opponent does every round.

The final components look pretty sweet. I particularly dig the over sized cards. There are some game play demonstration videos up that are obviously staged but show off the components:




So yeah. I'm pretty pumped that they finally got this thing out. Preorders on sale until May 31st. Haven't actually played this yet for obvious reasons. Playtest versions have been available to kickstarters but the rules iterated so quickly after feedback from a way more dedicated group of backers than me that I couldn't justify taking time to print a full set of components for testing.

http://www.becomemagi.com/
 

Mrowak

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:eek:

I've been looking for a game exactly like this one - with magic, and spells and LARP aplenty. As far as I can tell the ruleset seems to have potential, although it's hard to tell - my fear is it will become convoluted on higher spell levels. It's unlikely that I will preorder it (too high shipping fee to potato), but I will keep a lookout for it once it hits Euroland.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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Well, Serpent's Tongue is done. They got the stuff printed and on a boat. Apparently the first copies will be at Gen Con. Hopefully I won't have to wait too god damn long for my KS copies. (Who am I kidding? I'll be lucky to have them by december if Kwa transatlantic shipping doesn't change radically).

eWxTgZF.jpg


I've messed around a bit with some scans of cards, the rulebook and some encounter cards on a virtual tabletop. It *seems* solid but until I've played it against people, there's no telling for sure.

Either way, the components are looking pretty cool. There's a kind of awkward video of the lead designer doing an unboxing of their last "test" sample:


They also took a cue from FantasyFlightGames and released the rule book and a walkthrough as PDFs for people to browse online. And they made a (kinda crappily coded) database of the cards for the game.

I'm kinda psyched about the co-op campaign that comes with the kickstarter copies. They have a bunch of PvE encounters that run off of a basic "ai" where you draw tokens to determine their actions from a number of tables. The encounter card I tried out (the one in the walkthrough) actually posed a decent challenge. (Had a 50%ish winrate with the spells I put together).
ST_codex_ECAT-1.jpg


It's supposed to be CYOA style for one or more players, with the encounters scaing to the number of players (gaining more actions, hit points etc).

They had a debut at RopeCon in Finland recently where they apparently ran demos for 14hrs every day and people kept coming back for more after the introduction game, so that sounds promising. Either way, once I actually have the game in my grubby hands I'll drag some mates over, we'll play a bunch of games and I'll make sure the codex gets a full writeup.
 

Mrowak

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I am awaiting your feedback, brother. What I need is a solid, original card game for 2++. This one sounds mighty promising, but after reading the walkthrough and manual I have some doubts as to how fun it will get.
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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The main stumbling blocks seem to be the number of things to track. There's resonance (mana for casting spells), essence (hit points) and harmony/discord (weird secondary mechanic that can damage you or give you bonus resonance) on the tracker thingie. On top of that there's duration/durability chits on some cards for ongoing effects and shields. Others (like the Karmic Debt curse) gain charge counters. Then there's Will, which you can exchange for other resources, the focus gem, your spellcaster class and which parts of it you have unlocked. I get the feeling it may end up being overwhelming, but there's no telling for sure until I play a game vs people.

The other major stumbling block that was brought up when we discussed this is information overload for new players. In most CCGs, the player only has to pick and choose from a hand of 4-8 cards every round. Since the entire codex is available to players, they have to pick and choose from all 30 spells, which may lead to people being unable to decide what to do.

The mechanics are interesting enough. But it will ultimately come down to how well the cards interact with each other. The thing that worries me the most is whether the cards combo off of each other well. Hopefully you'll be able to get creative with the spells.

I have high hopes for the campaign that kickstarters get. It sounds like the kind of thing that would give me a huge nerd-on. Co-op CYOA with sandbox elements? Yes please!

Out of Eden

An Interactive Story Arc Through Time.

Components

The Out of Eden campaign is the simplest of our planned GM-Free campaign modules and will be available at launch. It utilizes the core set, as well as a 189 Page Adventure book, a punch token sheet and several Map boards. Future editions will be more complex and contain their own set of cards and supplementary materials.

The Story

Out of Eden begins with the opening of your Magi’s Chest. As the memories of your past lives begin to cascade through your mind you flashback to an earlier life spent in the shadow of the great tower of Babel, where you were trained by one of your most influential masters. Even that life, you sense, was but an echo of power from an even earlier time, a time that feels as ancient as the world.
This is an interactive flashback, and your choices made within it will create the present time you soon return to. A dangerous present, where your awakening has drawn the attention of the old powers and alliances, each with their own agenda and designs upon the Magi that are now returning to the world.
Who you align yourself with, how you behave, what you choose to do and HOW you choose to do it, could have ripple effects across time and influence the world of Magi.

Game Mechanics

Decision Tracking

This is the essential element, for without tracking what you do and how you do it, the story could not be truly interactive. Events would not shift to match your actions. We have developed a three tier tracking system from the specific to the general.
The Adventure book itself is full of encounters, events and choices that will direct you through its branching story-lines. This is a REAL story arc, (actually several of them) not a series of random events strung together. The adventure book utilizes rising action, plot points, and climax to create an epic adventure. Many of the great events are unstoppable, but how YOU participate in them is your choice.
The Karma System is a more broad form of tracking the general tone and style of your choices by placing different colored Karma tokens into the draw bag whenever a relevant choice is made. Many events will require you to draw a token from the bag and the situation will react or adjust according to the type of Karma drawn. Over time your decisions will begin to weight your Karma and increase the likelihood of which type is drawn.
The third tracking system is a secret and will be revealed closer to launch.

Bound by Time

Marking the passage of time is another essential element to the Serpent’s Tongue RPG system. Everything a player does requires time. Traveling to distant lands, investigating ruins, studying in ancient libraries, researching new magick, training under masters, constructing your sanctum, everything requires specific amounts of time. As time progresses some opportunities open and others close, some threats gain in power, and some bastions crumble. Magi players will have to govern their time well, for the challenges ahead will require growth training and fortification, but as you grow, so do your enemies.

An Evolving Sandbox World

The adventure book will tell the story of events and characters you will meet, but the Map boards provide a physical reference point. Players will choose what areas to investigate and interact with in a sandbox-style format. Depending on which era is being played, travel will be a key issue, and players may invest time and energy in developing faster or safer travel, like mastering flight spells, building teleportation devices or casting temporal magicks. Of course in other eras, you can just hop on an airplane in pursuit of your investigations and missions.
Changing Maps
As time progresses the same land mass will be represented by a new map, that will reflect a world changed by the player’s actions or inaction.

Character Development

Players are represented not only by their specializations that will allow them to unlock power over time, but also by multiple stats and keywords, the spells they have researched and placed in their codex, the artifacts they have acquired, the structures they have built, the recipes rites and rituals they have collected and much more. Suffice to say that the journey will be long and the player will grow into a true master… or they will perish.

Simple and Accessible

Despite all of the above-mentioned systems, we have attempted to develop Out of Eden to be a simple and accessible game system. At its core, players will read sections of the adventure book, pore over the map to choose locations to visit, roll for possible encounters enroute, collect the necessary time tokens to travel there then turn to the appropriate spot in the Adventure book and read again. What players will end up reading depends on the location, the date,, their karmic draw, and any applicable keywords, states or items they have collected . Sometimes it will be a whole chapter and subplot, other times short opportunities or encounters. But where they go and what they do will continue to affect the story to the very end.
 

Mrowak

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The main stumbling blocks seem to be the number of things to track. There's resonance (mana for casting spells), essence (hit points) and harmony/discord (weird secondary mechanic that can damage you or give you bonus resonance) on the tracker thingie. On top of that there's duration/durability chits on some cards for ongoing effects and shields. Others (like the Karmic Debt curse) gain charge counters. Then there's Will, which you can exchange for other resources, the focus gem, your spellcaster class and which parts of it you have unlocked. I get the feeling it may end up being overwhelming, but there's no telling for sure until I play a game vs people.

True to that. I've watched pretty much every video there is about the gameplay and read the walkthrough as well as the manual, but without physical cards in front of me I still cannot figure out how all those factors you enumerated blend into enjoyable whole.

The other major stumbling block that was brought up when we discussed this is information overload for new players. In most CCGs, the player only has to pick and choose from a hand of 4-8 cards every round. Since the entire codex is available to players, they have to pick and choose from all 30 spells, which may lead to people being unable to decide what to do.

The mechanics are interesting enough. But it will ultimately come down to how well the cards interact with each other. The thing that worries me the most is whether the cards combo off of each other well. Hopefully you'll be able to get creative with the spells.

Yeah, that's the problem too. The way I wish it would work is having an analogue of massive spell battle with spell combos, erecting mistical barriers, countering effects, etc. but I fear it could all devolve into: hurling whatever your opponent cannot protect himself with, end of turn, enemy does the same, rinse and repeat.

I have high hopes for the campaign that kickstarters get. It sounds like the kind of thing that would give me a huge nerd-on. Co-op CYOA with sandbox elements? Yes please!

Goddamn! :mad: Undoubtedly they will release it sooner or later as a DLC separate expansion!! :x

Still, I have quite high hopes of this game. As far as the theme goes, it's exactly what I have been looking for for quite some time. :bounce:
 
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Ulminati

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Did you get a chance to try it yet Jaesun?

I got my copy back in December, just after christmas. There are 5 people in my area who have it as well, so we've had a few evenings with putting on the robes and wizard hats. I was planning to do a proper review at some point. I just figure I'll wait until they're done erratating the rules and sending out the rest of the backer rewards (out of Eden in particular).

The rules are a bit iffy, but I rather like the components and the larpy feel of the game. So far we haven't come up with any combinations that were undefeatable. 2v2 is definitely the most fun, but unless everyone's played a few games it quickly falls apart in confusion. We haven't tried sacred sites yet, but it is on the to-do list.

I'm quite fond of Quantum. It's very resonance efficient, and the time manipulation spells (flare stairs, temporal bubble, slow area etc) make up for having to work with components. I run a rift fiend Quantum/Bio with a splash of soul to offset discord. I've also a lulzy blade of atma spec that manages to generate 2-3 foci every round to fuel the specialization machine cannon. I'm looking into the Gilum Naza force field cheese. But it looks less alluring now that archivists word snatcher got (rightfully) nerfed.

My main gripe is that I didn't get any organic matter bio component in my boosters, and I have 5-6 bio spells that require it to use. And it looks like Avak'shar card redemption isn't coming anytime soon. :(
 

Jaesun

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I have mine as well. It is still wrapped in plastic, I just have not had time to play it yet. Nor do I know anyone who plays it yet, :/
 

Mrowak

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Ulminati

I am finally about to buy this game, but I would like to have your final impressions after so much time. It it worth to shelling boatloads of jewgold? What about expansions?
 

Mrowak

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Damnation, I'd hoped for card-based rpg system. :( What went wrong here?
 
Self-Ejected

Ulminati

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Kickstarter campaign mismanagement mostly.
They burned through all the backer money going through a bunch of extra iterations and different manufacturers for components. To top it all off, they burned a ton of effort on a silly "augmented reality" larp thing that only a small handful of backers cared about.

Kickstarter backers never received their rewards beside the base game. The co-op RPG booklet? Nope. The doodads like cloth bag, founders pin and fancy books? Nope. The simple things like bonus cards that already had the art done? Hahahahanope! The binders you had to pay extra for? Gave up getting a refund after 2 years of "we're waiting on manufacturer"".

On top of that, rules are clunky as hell and poorly explained. Even if the game underneath is slightly interesting, good luck agreeing with people on how things work. Even with the extended playtest, backer feedback warning that their mandatory handwaving and deciphering glyphs ground gameplay to a halt was ignored in favour of the 4-5 super vocal larpers.

Finally, the player base is dead. The original backers got burned and the game languishes in obscurity with little word from the devs. According to BGG, they're trying to start a new board game kickstarter. As far as I can tell, the current site only exists to get rid of their remaining stock.
 

Mrowak

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Project: Eternity
Kickstarter campaign mismanagement mostly.
They burned through all the backer money going through a bunch of extra iterations and different manufacturers for components. To top it all off, they burned a ton of effort on a silly "augmented reality" larp thing that only a small handful of backers cared about.

Kickstarter backers never received their rewards beside the base game. The co-op RPG booklet? Nope. The doodads like cloth bag, founders pin and fancy books? Nope. The simple things like bonus cards that already had the art done? Hahahahanope! The binders you had to pay extra for? Gave up getting a refund after 2 years of "we're waiting on manufacturer"".

On top of that, rules are clunky as hell and poorly explained. Even if the game underneath is slightly interesting, good luck agreeing with people on how things work. Even with the extended playtest, backer feedback warning that their mandatory handwaving and deciphering glyphs ground gameplay to a halt was ignored in favour of the 4-5 super vocal larpers.

Finally, the player base is dead. The original backers got burned and the game languishes in obscurity with little word from the devs. According to BGG, they're trying to start a new board game kickstarter. As far as I can tell, the current site only exists to get rid of their remaining stock.

Damnation, turns out paranoya is my friend. This is precisely the only reason I did not back up this project - I feared they'd fail to deliver.
 

Mustawd

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Kickstarter campaign mismanagement mostly.
They burned through all the backer money going through a bunch of extra iterations and different manufacturers for components. To top it all off, they burned a ton of effort on a silly "augmented reality" larp thing that only a small handful of backers cared about.

Kickstarter backers never received their rewards beside the base game. The co-op RPG booklet? Nope. The doodads like cloth bag, founders pin and fancy books? Nope. The simple things like bonus cards that already had the art done? Hahahahanope! The binders you had to pay extra for? Gave up getting a refund after 2 years of "we're waiting on manufacturer"".

On top of that, rules are clunky as hell and poorly explained. Even if the game underneath is slightly interesting, good luck agreeing with people on how things work. Even with the extended playtest, backer feedback warning that their mandatory handwaving and deciphering glyphs ground gameplay to a halt was ignored in favour of the 4-5 super vocal larpers.

Finally, the player base is dead. The original backers got burned and the game languishes in obscurity with little word from the devs. According to BGG, they're trying to start a new board game kickstarter. As far as I can tell, the current site only exists to get rid of their remaining stock.


Not a CCG player, but stories like this always make me a bit sad.
 

Mrowak

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It's Summoner Wars and Mage Wars for me then :/
 

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