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In Progress [LP CYOA] Tower

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
When you're an all-rounder you take a toolbox approach and you look for ways to combine your strengths and approach problems from an unexpected angle. It's precisely the circumstances where we're in over our heads that become the most fun because we're all brainstorming a good way out of it. Whereas in your version it's an obvious vote and we're done.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
When you're an all-rounder you take a toolbox approach and you look for ways to combine your strengths and approach problems from an unexpected angle. It's precisely the circumstances where we're in over our heads that become the most fun because we're all brainstorming a good way out of it. Whereas in your version it's an obvious vote and we're done.

Ah yes, brainstorming, putting together complex plans involving multiple different skill sets to achieve a common goal. Hmm, what do you call that - Intelligence, perhaps? And, Charisma, to get others with their own respective skillsets onboard with said plans?

Edit: There are plenty of benefits to playing as an all-rounder, that's for certain. The biggest one is that you might end up with a character who's "greater than the sum of their parts". But that still doesn't mean that you can become as good of an Astra specialist as a scholar who has done this all their lives, or you can get people on board with some crazy scheme like the merchant can. There are benefits and disadvantages with this, like with anything.
 
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Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
When you're an all-rounder you take a toolbox approach and you look for ways to combine your strengths and approach problems from an unexpected angle. It's precisely the circumstances where we're in over our heads that become the most fun because we're all brainstorming a good way out of it. Whereas in your version it's an obvious vote and we're done.
This sort of reasoning has its own perils. Thinking back to every other treave LP, our strongest skills often led to our most spectacular feats (sneaking into Miss Bai's quarters, defeating Ahura and becoming the new Firelord, bullshitting basically everybody, and standing up to Yang Xue and Super Shun). Meanwhile, a generalist would not have had access to the same options as our specialists had. I am not arguing that generalists are always better or worse than specialists, only that their generalist skill set can be just as limiting as that of the specialist, and I think that your claim that it can not is unfair.

Furthermore, I think you aren't giving treave enough credit as a GM. When has he ever, and I mean ever, gave us scenarios where we didn't actually have to think how to apply our skills.. :lol:

And, no, the cow doesn't count. We won't speak of that traitorous bovine. Ever. Again.


signs.jpg


==Raw votes==

Lion - 3
Fish - 3
Archer - 2
Twins - 2
Goat - 1
Ram - 1

Poll
Baltika9 - Lion>Bull>Ram>Archer
ERYFKRAD - Lion
CappenVarra - Lion

Nevill - Fish
Azira - Fish>Archer>Virgin>Scorpion
Esquilax - Fish

Absinthe - Archer>Twins
Life of the Party - Archer

baud - Twins>Virgin
Lambchop19 - Twins

oscar - Goat

Egosphere - Ram>Archer

lightbane, Grimgravy, Kz3r0, Kipeci, asxetos, hello friend, Nahel, Tigranes, Smashing Axe, I tagged you because we are now voting on which sign we should pick for our Hunter. The table with stat distributions is attached to this message.
P.S.: vote Lion, please.
 
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Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
Rats. Well, I did like it better than Slumrat.

[x] Fish

I’d like to salvage as much Astra capability as I can, and I like the idea of a high constitution character. Our characters have been a bit fragile at times... even Xu Jing had a bit of glass cannon tendencies, breaking arms left and right. Not too friendly, but I’ll take what I can get and at least he seems tough enough to kick on ticking, maybe in a Rasputin-y way.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Let's break it down. What is important to us?

I think a good compromise is to go for someone all-rounded enough that we can pursue interesting options when situations present, while also having one area of relative strength. I think the benefits of that are obvious.
That rules out Bull, Crab, Balance, Scorpion and Fish, all of whom sport 3 in a particular stat.

At the same time, I think most of us prefer a fairly savvy and insightful Hunter, rather than a brawn over brains Hunter. Someone who brings his own wisdom to the table.
So that means choosing from Ram (6 INT), Virgin (6 WIS), Archer (6 INT/WIS).

Further, the Hunter's background in skills like Stealth and Traps should not be ignored - we don't want to forego all synergies for the sake of a balanced spread. So that probably means a predilection towards DEX.
That means Ram (7 DEX) or Archer (6 DEX).

Finally, the Astra type: mutability's emphasis on transformation, such as camouflage cloaking or wolf summoning, seems to be most interesting, flexible, & suitable for the Hunter.
That means Archer.

ARCHER > RAM > FISH.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Reposting this, since Baltika9 alerted so many people. For reference, the victorious background is this:

The Novice Hunter

The strange vastness of the Tower harbours both wide rolling plains and unexplored forests within it. You are a young orphan apprenticed to a hunter, residing in one of the countless, remote, nondescript villages that populate these areas. You spend your day learning single-mindedly how to hunt, and nothing else, somewhat stunting your imagination and sociability.
(Strength +1, Dexterity +1, Constitution +2, Charisma -1, Intelligence -1)

Starts with:
Ranged Weapons +1, Stealth +1, Traps +1​

The possible astrological signs are:
Astra of Mesa (The Ram) Affinity: Fire, dynamism
Dexterity +1, Constitution -1, Intelligence +2, Wisdom -1, Charisma +1​
Astra of Vrsabha (The Bull) Affinity: Earth, fixation
Strength +2, Dexterity -1, Constitution +2, Intelligence -1​
Astra of Mithuna (The Twins) Affinity: Air, mutability
Strength -1, Dexterity +1, Intelligence +1, Charisma +1​
Astra of Karka (The Crab) Affinity: Water, dynamism
Dexterity +1, Constitution +1, Intelligence +1, Charisma -1​
Astra of Simha (The Lion) Affinity: Fire, fixation
Strength +1, Dexterity -1, Intelligence +1, Charisma +1​
Astra of Kanya (The Virgin) Affinity: Earth, mutability
Constitution +1, Wisdom +1​
Astra of Tula (The Balance) Affinity: Air, dynamism
Dexterity +2, Intelligence +1, Wisdom -2, Charisma +1​
Astra of Vrscika (The Scorpion) Affinity: Water, fixation
Strength +1, Dexterity -1, Constitution +2, Wisdom +1, Charisma -1​
Astra of Dhanusa (The Archer) Affinity: Fire, mutability
Strength -1, Constitution -1, Intelligence +2, Wisdom +1, Charisma +1​
Astra of Makara (The Goat) Affinity: Earth, dynamism
Strength +1, Dexterity +1, Constitution +1, Wisdom -1​
Astra of Kumbha (The Water-Bearer) Affinity: Air, fixation
Strength +1, Constitution +1, Wisdom -1, Charisma +1​
Astra of Mina (The Fish) Affinity: Water, mutability
Strength -1, Constitution +1, Intelligence +1, Wisdom +2, Charisma -1​

Treave informed us of the following regarding astra types:
Dynamism: The Astra is of a type that emits its power externally. A sword firing sword beams, or a hoe that carves an entire furrow with a single swing, or manipulation of external objects ala telekinesis, among others.
Fixation: The Astra enhances the target. A sword that makes the user faster, a hoe gives the user more stamina, or targetable abilities such as enhancing the natural regeneration of a patient.
Mutability: The Astra's power is based in transformation and conjuration. A cloak that can change to act as active camouflage, bracelets which enable the user to transform into a wolf, or the conjuration of objects out of thin air.​

In addition he informed us that our sign will not determine our personality. That will be decided by prologue choices (and we are starting as a kid).
 
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Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
Life of the Party, vote Archer man. It has zero weaknesses and lets us get our Shaman on with that positive wis.

Ah yes, brainstorming, putting together complex plans involving multiple different skill sets to achieve a common goal. Hmm, what do you call that - Intelligence, perhaps? And, Charisma, to get others with their own respective skillsets onboard with said plans?
Hey, you're the one voting Fish over Archer (not that I particularly mind, water mutability is probably my favorite astra, although any mutability sounds decent to me).

Edit: There are plenty of benefits to playing as an all-rounder, that's for certain. The biggest one is that you might end up with a character who's "greater than the sum of their parts". But that still doesn't mean that you can become as good of an Astra specialist as a scholar who has done this all their lives, or you can get people on board with some crazy scheme like the merchant can. There are benefits and disadvantages with this, like with anything.
In Legend near the end we were able to break 10 in stats across the board, but the point isn't to become all-around superman. It's precisely to have a "the sum is greater than the parts" type of character where we get creative and have options in every direction.

This sort of reasoning has its own perils. Thinking back to every other treave LP, our strongest skills often led to our most spectacular feats (sneaking into Miss Bai's quarters, defeating Ahura and becoming the new Firelord, bullshitting basically everybody, and standing up to Yang Xue and Super Shun). Meanwhile, a generalist would not have had access to the same options as our specialists had. I am not arguing that generalists are always better or worse than specialists, only that their generalist skill set can be just as limiting as that of the specialist, and I think that your claim that it can not to be unfair.
Jing was also a generalist. Because we dumped Luck we had high stats across the board in the rest of the field, and we just developed specialties along the road, as I expect we will do in this CYOA as well. Jing wouldn't've been Jing if he didn't have the charisma and int he did on top of his strong martial prowess and stealth skills. We had medicine skills, stealth skills, sleight of hand skills, speech skills (which we used with our high mental stats to BS our way into the black dragon fort), scholarly skills, unarmed skills, pressure point skills, sword skills, and ridiculous neigong and solid qinggong on that guy. Seriously, Jing is not a good example of a specialist. If Jing had charisma below 5, int below 5, and was just stealth and martial skills, he would've been a much less interesting/entertaining character.

Furthermore, I think you aren't giving treave enough credit as a GM. When has he ever, and I mean ever, gave us scenarios where we didn't actually have to think how to apply our skills.. :lol:
You give Codex too much credit if you think we haven't done some spectacularly braindead votes. And there are times when the working options are pretty straightforward options, given our proficiencies.

And, no, the cow doesn't count. We won't speak of that traitorous bovine. Ever. Again.
Tbh serving girl was an obvious road to success on that vote. Since she was being harassed by a bunch of drunks it would've been easy to make her favorably inclined to us so she'd tell us who would pilot our armor.
 
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Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,535
Let's break it down. What is important to us?

I definitely prefer mutability to the other two. I think it also fits a hunter. I'm not really sure how the elements work but the Virgin's is earth, which I guess should prove more useful with hunting than, say, fire? Could be wrong, though.

I'd like to have at least 6 in WIS, as a sort of a mystical connection to our surroundings, a sixth sense of a sort. I presume an actual shaman would require 8 or 9, which is not even an option right now. Furthermore, I'd prefer not to have 3 at anything since I'd rather avoid being comically horrible at any particular stat, and like I said, I fear we might end up with something even lower than 3. Do we really want a Conan who pukes on women when they try to kiss him like Stan from South Park?

I originally picked the Archer but as you may infer by now, I'm having my doubts. The reason is that when I actually look at the stats, it's nothing but 6s. I fear taking jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none that far could lead to the master-of-none part being the dominant one. In other words, I'd rather have one safe stat, something to rely on, in a way, and I seem to recall people mentioning high Constitution in relation to the Hunter pages ago. 8 CON, 6 WIS, no 3s... The Virgin sounds kinda deflowered.

Still, if no one but me SEES THROUGH THEIR LIES, I'll go with the Archer.
 

Absinthe

Arcane
Joined
Jan 6, 2012
Messages
4,062
For what it's worth, we'll probably be presented with a limited choice of +1 to two different stats options shortly after completing the prologue. Stat-ups are rare (usually they happen more at moments where we dedicate time and effort to developing our character along a specific path), but we will improve our stats and won't be a purely average stooge for taking Archer, if that's what you fear.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
And it looks like the Archer has a strong lead. I think we might have our guy. Eight pages didn't quite top Legend's twelve, but I think we did well enough, considering our circumstances.

treave, out of wishful thinking curiosity, will we be able to interact with the world outside of the Tower? For instance, will we be able to volunteer for WW1, or any of the Revolutionary Wars? Or join international political parties (perhaps even the International Party? +M)


signs.jpg



==Votes after conditionals==

Fish - 8
Archer - 8

==Raw votes==

Lion - 3
Fish - 7
Archer - 6
Twins - 2
Goat - 1
Ram - 1

Poll
Baltika9 - Lion>Bull>Ram>Fish
ERYFKRAD - Lion
CappenVarra - Lion

Nevill - Fish
Azira - Fish>Archer>Virgin>Scorpion
Esquilax - Fish
Kipeci- Fish
Grimgravy - Fish>Archer
hello friend - Fish>Twins>Virgin>Archer
Lambchop19 - Fish>Twins

Absinthe - Archer>Twins
Life of the Party - Archer
Tigranes - Archer>Ram>Fish
asxetos - Archer
Life of the Party - Fish
Kz3r0 - Archer

baud - Twins>Virgin
Smashing Axe - Twins>Archer>Lion>Ram

oscar - Goat

Egosphere - Ram>Archer
 
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Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
Sanding off any interesting weakness in favor of perfectly distributed mediocrity. I hope whatever personality we mold can make up for such a boring approach, now we both won’t know anything interesting and have hardly any rough country edge on your average city slicker.
 

Baltika9

Arcane
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
9,611
Sanding off any interesting weakness in favor of perfectly distributed mediocrity. I hope whatever personality we mold can make up for such a boring approach, now we both won’t know anything interesting and have hardly any rough country edge on your average city slicker.
Now there's an interesting idea!

For the first time in our CYOAs, we can play as... 'just a guy.' That's it. In a setting with a mysterious tower, magical artifacts, great social upheaval, and a world war on the horizon, we'll can be a mild-mannered, decent fellow with no strong political opinions and no drive to adventure. Just average.

We can be a simple hunter, tending to his forest.
:lol:
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Sanding off any interesting weakness in favor of perfectly distributed mediocrity. I hope whatever personality we mold can make up for such a boring approach, now we both won’t know anything interesting and have hardly any rough country edge on your average city slicker.
idk, I like my retard playthroughs of Arcanum as much as the next guy, but having "because you're a fucking moron" be treave's explanation for why we failed happens often enough without our character being an actual retard.
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
Sanding off any interesting weakness in favor of perfectly distributed mediocrity. I hope whatever personality we mold can make up for such a boring approach, now we both won’t know anything interesting and have hardly any rough country edge on your average city slicker.
idk, I like my retard playthroughs of Arcanum as much as the next guy, but having "because you're a fucking moron" be treave's explanation for why we failed happens often enough without our character being an actual retard.
I was interested in Fish, he wouldn’t have been retarded. What I’m envisioning is some imposing, nigh-unkillable asshole a la Killer Physician going around and dispensing shamanic wisdom by transmuting tyrants into puddles of water. If nothing else, he’d also be durable to survive our screwups.
 

a cut of domestic sheep prime

Guest
Sanding off any interesting weakness in favor of perfectly distributed mediocrity. I hope whatever personality we mold can make up for such a boring approach, now we both won’t know anything interesting and have hardly any rough country edge on your average city slicker.
idk, I like my retard playthroughs of Arcanum as much as the next guy, but having "because you're a fucking moron" be treave's explanation for why we failed happens often enough without our character being an actual retard.
I was interested in Fish, he wouldn’t have been retarded. What I’m envisioning is some imposing, nigh-unkillable asshole a la Killer Physician going around and dispensing shamanic wisdom by transmuting tyrants into puddles of water. If nothing else, he’d also be durable to survive our screwups.
I will flop to fish>twins then.

Not sure if it matters though.

edit:

it doesn't
 
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Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
This ain't Underrail. 6 WIS vs 7 ain't gonna lock us out of all the WIS feats.
 

Esquilax

Arcane
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
4,833
This ain't Underrail. 6 WIS vs 7 ain't gonna lock us out of all the WIS feats.

I dunno, Deranged, Filthy, and Insanely Hardy Wildman Hermit (Fish) gleaning wisdom from the trees and animals of the woods seems like a character with more of a sense of identity than our hypothetical Archer. The Archer just doesn't have that "edge" as a character. Or maybe I'm just not seeing it.
 

Kipeci

Arcane
Joined
May 22, 2012
Messages
3,027
Location
Vicksburg
This ain't Underrail. 6 WIS vs 7 ain't gonna lock us out of all the WIS feats.
We learn him his manners and a mediocre sense of grooming on par with the everyman at the expense of that edge in shamanic mastery and a hide like bark. Frankly, I’d consider frothing about the wisdom the barley whispered in his ears or what have you a plus over the most average possible charisma.
 

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