Total War: Three Kingdoms - the next major historical Total War title set in ancient China

[BrotherFrank]

Well for the record, what made volund flip out on me is when i said real world logic doesn’t apply 100% to fantasy settings and gave a few examples like not expecting a unit of goblin spearmen to stand against a unit of demigryph knights (used an extreme example to illustrate my point that for a strategy game based on an existing fantasy license like this, expectations need to be adjusted a bit), and he REALLY didn't like that since he went all in on shogun 2 being the perfect paradigm every other tw should imitate and specifically gave tw2 as a shitty example because spears don't auto beat cavalry therefore the sacred unit rock paper scissors mechanic is ruined.

The argument I was trying to make was a fantasy game can and should have a bit more then that, other examples I gave were treemen being monstrous units (so in theory countered by anti large) but actually way more vulnerable to fire, and that in tw2 you can then use magic to enchant the weapons of a unit of basic infantry with fire therefore swinging the results of an otherwise one sided fight.

Now I play SFO and a ton of other mods, I have no idea how twh2 vanilla even plays anymore, so it's not like I feel compelled to defend the honor of a game I can't stand seeing criticised when I can't even play said game without modding it to the high heavens, was just making a civil disagreement and offering a contrasting opinion. I ain't saying volund is always wrong (worst complaint i have about his vids is he is too long winded, makes an hour long vid when it could really be 20 mins), just that the dude is a right twat who will proper flip out on you if you don't just mindlessly nod with everything he says. Anyways last comment from me on that topic, I am well aware this is the three kingdoms thread not the twh2 one.

 

[Fedora Master]

Somehow everyone in the TW community a dickhead.

 

[copebot]

Volund also made a 30 minute video about why ninjas are the best unit in Total War because you can bug out the AI in a 10 year old game with their stealth ability. He's not terribly consistent and he doesn't really understand game development or the game business but presents himself as if he is a genius consultant that CA should be listening to carefully. Sometimes he is correct and has an interesting point, such as that slings and arrows are represented poorly in the games. They're also represented badly in movies and other popular media, so this is partly an issue with what the audience expects to see, also.

If you read military history to any level of depth it becomes obvious quickly that all TW games are fantasy games. Some are history themed, but many of them have egregiously incorrect things in them beyond what is usually brought up like ninja units, flaming pigs, or girl infantry. If you have been in the military or read military manuals, you will see that many of the "omg strategy tactixx" in video games are incredibly shallow and abstracted. The most basic formations in history or in contemporary circumstances are far more complex than anything that you would ever do in a Total War game -- and that's a good thing, because you should not have to simulate drilling or whatever in a computer game designed as a fun and abstract exercise.

There are lots of ways in which real world logic or real world circumstances can make a game more fun, interesting, or complex. The nature of software makes it so that most of the simulations that we do are rife with tradeoffs. For example, no TW game has terrain deformation, but digging has always been a major fundamental part of battle strategy. Implementing such things would make it harder to create pathfinding algorithms that worked properly. It'd be tougher to have a lighting engine that is performant when all the terrain meshes can be modified. Even something like BFV that has limited real time terrain deformation and the ability to build fortifications on the fly just allows players to modify the map from one state to another fixed state. You cannot just dig the ditch where you would want to, like you can in a game like Minecraft or Valheim.

 

[Theodora]

I found it weird that he made entire vids to reply to random comments on plebbit but thought nothing of it until he made a full autist rant with added smarm and cuntiness to some slightly disagreeing comment I made (proving he does indeed scour his comment section for arguments to get in) that wasn't even that spicy, didn't like my rebuttal to his response, then deleted my comments like a bitch, presumably because the conversation wasn't one sided enough to make him look good.

Needless to say, wasn't impressed.

Whew, that's childish as it gets. This community is full of babies that think they know history, and then throw a petulent fit if someone undermines their (understandably shaky) self-confidence.

 

[Jugashvili]

The most basic formations in history or in contemporary circumstances are far more complex than anything that you would ever do in a Total War game -- and that's a good thing, because you should not have to simulate drilling or whatever in a computer game designed as a fun and abstract exercise.

The problem with Total War games is that they have shown what their priorities are. 20 years is plenty of time to develop a system that can portray warfare in a more realistic manner while still being accessible and fun, but instead we got fancy graphixx, mo-capped kill moves and nodding unit leader heads whereas the structure of the games is still essentially the same as it was originally: "armies" of 20 or so "units" of 150 or so models organized into vaguely rectangular blocks, each of which must be painstakingly micro-managed by the player.

It's surprisingly easy to produce a better system. Nick Thomadis and a handful of Ukrainians improved on the Total War formula with the Ultimate General series, which is more engaging and "realistic" than anything CA has ever put out while being less micro-intensive and very easy to play (no "unit ability" buttons to click all the time, brigade commanders turn to meet and engage threats on initiative, brigades can be told to fall back in good order with a single click). And UG games manage to capture something of the scale and grandeur of historical battles, whereas historical battles in Total War games have always looked like a joke.

Total War was good for its time because it had potential. Battles with several thousand entities moving across 3D landscapes in real time showed a lot of promise. It just chose to grow in all the wrong directions while keeping the tactical element stagnant, so if they decide to make all their games about goblins and dwarves going forward it might be for the best.

 

[LESS T_T]

There will be no more DLC, instead they're making a new Three Kingdoms game.

 

[Narax]

There will be no more DLC, instead they're making a new Three Kingdoms game.

Why bother with dlc when they can sell a "new" full price game reusing the same assets from three kingdoms. CA knows their audience will buy anything they throw at them, and now that they have the chinese market they won't bother with the historical titles that made the series great.

 

[Delterius]

Why bother with dlc when they can sell a "new" full price game reusing the same assets from three kingdoms.

 

[Narax]

Why bother with dlc when they can sell a "new" full price game reusing the same assets from three kingdoms.

Napoleon is considered one of the best in the series, it not only improves on everything Empire does, but also adds to it. It’s not the same as the shameless reselling of Warhammer that they’ve been doing and will continue to do with Three Kingdoms.

 

[Delterius]

Napoleon is considered one of the best in the series, it not only improves on everything Empire does, but also adds to it.

sounds like warhammer 2 to me

 

[JarlFrank]

Why bother with dlc when they can sell a "new" full price game reusing the same assets from three kingdoms.

Napoleon is considered one of the best in the series, it not only improves on everything Empire does, but also adds to it. It’s not the same as the shameless reselling of Warhammer that they’ve been doing and will continue to do with Three Kingdoms.

Napoleon would be my #1 favorite if it had full campaign map moddability, and/or a bigger campaign map (including North Africa, Turkey, Egypt).

 

[A horse of course]

This is good for me. I was holding off on playing 3K until it was "finished", as I don't really care about the setting and just wanted to play 50-100hrs with the maximum amount of content. The way they handled this was strange, though. I suspect they originally intended to keep supporting it, but a decision was made at a higher level to cancel all future DLC and try to sell another full-price S*g* title.

From what I understand it had good initial sales, then dropped off the face of the earth, with the DLC content getting a lukewarm reception at best.

 

[LESS T_T]

CA rep's comment from the video. It strangely sounds like they're going to do more fantasy (based on the novel than the history) in the next game.

To clarify: no more DLC or patches for the existing Three Kingdoms game. However, we are working on a new game, based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel. This will not connect to the first.

 

[A horse of course]

CA rep's comment from the video. It strangely sounds like they're going to do more fantasy (based on the novel than the history) in the next game.

To clarify: no more DLC or patches for the existing Three Kingdoms game. However, we are working on a new game, based on the Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel. This will not connect to the first.

They see how easily they can milk fantasoy fans and probably want to completely abandon the "baggage" of what little historical elements hold them back on 3K. That way they can just go full retard with wuxia/dynasty warriors-themed characters and unit packs.

 

[Dwarvophile]

If they could only turn the page now and give us M3TW with the same improved campaign map gameplay, I really have a hard time getting interested in those chinoiseries.

 

[Space Satan]

Cathay will bury this entire sorry excuse for a franchize

 

[Mefi]

If it's something like Shogun 2's Fall of the Samurai then it might work. They did acknowledge they were having issues with the 3K engine just not being capable of doing what they wanted to do so that kind of makes sense, and if DLC sales were tanking as hard as player numbers... Against that, 'here's a new 3K start date, and that'll be £50 please' sounds tailored for an even more niche market outside of the Far East.

 

[A horse of course]

 

[Rahdulan]

There will be no more DLC, instead they're making a new Three Kingdoms game.

Is there anyone over 30 left at CA? They all look fresh college hires.

 

[AwesomeButton]

It's soul-crushing to watch corporate plancton wanked out from their cubicle/home office lairs and forced to imitate excitement for a company PR video.

 

[A horse of course]

It's soul-crushing to watch corporate plancton wanked out from their cubicle/home office lairs and forced to imitate excitement for a company PR video.

 

[Burning Bridges]

Total War was good for its time because it had potential. Battles with several thousand entities moving across 3D landscapes in real time showed a lot of promise. It just chose to grow in all the wrong directions while keeping the tactical element stagnant, so if they decide to make all their games about goblins and dwarves going forward it might be for the best.

The series was innovative in 2000. With Stephen Turnbull they even had educative credibility. Today it and their fans are just cingeworthy.

Btw I can still remember the shitstorn when Rome Total War eventually came out and the patient fans (who had even eatched a TV programme to see the development) had to realize the combat had become 2 times faster. Many people opted out back then already others tried to rescue everything with "killspeed" mods. It was already the beginning of the end and it's hard to believe what bullshit they have done to the series since then.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I had no idea they had Turnbull. How low have they fallen indeed.

 

[Jugashvili]

The series was innovative in 2000. With Stephen Turnbull they even had educative credibility. Today it and their fans are just cingeworthy.

Btw I can still remember the shitstorn when Rome Total War eventually came out and the patient fans (who had even eatched a TV programme to see the development) had to realize the combat had become 2 times faster. Many people opted out back then already others tried to rescue everything with "killspeed" mods. It was already the beginning of the end and it's hard to believe what bullshit they have done to the series since then.

I agree with the overall sentiment of your post, though calling Turnbull credible is a stretch

 

[Burning Bridges]

I did not intend to become a Japanologist, but at the time I tried to learn more and Turnbull's were the first I found that had some depth.

The rest was just photobooks with modern reenactors and some crap.