RPG market's short death in the mid 90's

[Lady Error]

I gave up on gaming for the most part around 1996 and played the Infinity games only over a decade later. And the reason was indeed that RPG's and other genres I liked took a nosedive in the mid-90's.

At the time, I remember that CD games just came out and retard companies thought that churning out trash like Rebel Assault that uses up the CD space with graphics is the way to go. Doom also came out and everybody started copying it.

A major reason is probably also that the PC gaming market used to be much smaller and people who were in it appreciated complexity. So as the market grew, the dumbing down began. It may also have been just a coincidence that no notable RPG's were created for a few years. Fallout came out already in 1997, so the dry spell was really only 1995-1996.

One rpg a year , thats not an healthy state for a hobby , and you could finish fallout in like 10 hours . Nothing beat 1992-1993 till the kickstarter era. If you have at look at wiki release page, its a sea of jrpg with barely one western rpg a year and most often not even good ones.

Well, Wizardry 7 took me several months to finish when it came out. Was also the first game I actually bought, along with Monkey Islands 2.

At the time, I had to use a dictionary all the time for D.W. Bradley's purple prose.

Though nothing beats how much I played the original Civlization I think.

 

[ProphetSword]

I'm only interested in the take of people who fulfill all 3 criteria:
- were there
- were at least teen agers
- were RPG players.

Yes to all three.

1. The oversaturation of the market.
Between 1983 and 1998, a grand total of 44 D&D titles came out. And that's just D&D.

My question to you: Did you really feel like there were too many RPGs and you couldn't play them all, hence skipping many of them knowingly?

To me, it always felt the opposite...like there weren't enough good RPGs. Anyone who says it was oversaturated is full of crap. RPGs were always fighting against other game types that were always doing better depending on the year (arcade conversions, fighting games, platformers, adventure games, 3D Shooters, FMV games, etc). The RPGs took up considerably less physical wall space than other game types during that entire period.

2. The lower quality of the games that were being churned out.

My question to you: Did you feel at the time that a lot of the RPGs were just mass produced for a quick cash grab?

Can anyone provide an example of an RPG from the era that was mass produced for a quick cash grab? The most mass produced RPGs of the era might have been the Gold-Box games, but they were usually quite good (some are better than others, of course, but they didn't feel like cash-grabs). This is one of those things that sounds like something someone decided was true in retrospect versus the reality at the time.

3. The market simply stopped growing.

I don't have a question here. Other genres were finding new audiences, DOOM made random office people install it at work, while RPGs had the same audience they always had. And since it's a growth market, the RPG market offered no growth and as such hit the wall, which was a disappointment for a lot of the investors. I don't think any of you were into investing at the time, so I don't think it can be constructively discussed, but feel free to share what you think.

Investors always follow the money. I think DOOM was such a financial success that everyone wanted a piece of that pie. So, of course a lot of the money was going to go there. I think it was less about how the market stopped growing for RPG players (which is bullshit anyway, given how popular AD&D 2e was at the time) and more about the dollar signs that investors saw in 3D shooters. I mean, I put enough hours into DOOM myself to know that it was clearly revolutionary in that moment. It just makes sense.

 

[mondblut]

Can anyone provide an example of an RPG from the era that was mass produced for a quick cash grab?

Eh, Swords of Xeen?

That aside, I simply can't believe anyone at SSI has ever looked at Deathkeep or Slayer and thought: "yes, this is how AD&D RPGs should be. this is our labor of love. this is how we are going to outdo our past efforts and dethrone Wizardry and Ultima."

DreamForge games were pretty sus too, even though I have fondness for both Ravenlofts. EOB3 was already critically panned, yet they had to go back and redo it as Dungeon Hack. Menzoberranzan is Ravenloft minus whatever made Ravenloft acceptable.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Not sure Questron 2 was anyone's labor of love

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Merely an attempt to pick up on the previous story. I don't think you can transfer your character. It has been a long while.

ARMOR
--Rawhide
--Studded Leather
--Ring Mail
--Bar Mail
--Chain Mail
--Plate Mail
--Ribbed Plate (well well well....)

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

i was tapping pussy and sniffing glue when i was a teenager

 

[Black Angel]

i was tapping pussy

What has those kitties done wrong to you to deserve this???

 

[I'm Big Into Anal]

its complicated

 

[Ladonna]

Not sure Questron 2 was anyone's labor of love

Westwood did a good conversion for the C64 version. It was a fun starter RPG that followed the same formula as the other Dougherty games from the 80s, with a bit of a twist. Gambling was always a fun distraction too, especially the card games.

 

[ProphetSword]

Can anyone provide an example of an RPG from the era that was mass produced for a quick cash grab?

Eh, Swords of Xeen?

Wasn't that a fan made game that got released as an actual game, though? Might have been a cash grab the company, I suppose, but I bet whoever made it did it with a lot of passion and hard work.

That aside, I simply can't believe anyone at SSI has ever looked at Deathkeep or Slayer and thought: "yes, this is how AD&D RPGs should be. this is our labor of love. this is how we are going to outdo our past efforts and dethrone Wizardry and Ultima."

Don't have experience with those. In fact, I had to look them up. Seems they were only released for the 3DO, maybe? Can't really speak to how good they were, but judging by what you said, they're probably crap.

DreamForge games were pretty sus too, even though I have fondness for both Ravenlofts. EOB3 was already critically panned, yet they had to go back and redo it as Dungeon Hack. Menzoberranzan is Ravenloft minus whatever made Ravenloft acceptable.

I hated the Menzoberranzan/Ravenloft games, as they simply weren't to my tastes. But, they didn't seem like cash grabs. Some people apparently liked them.

Dungeon Hack was probably the only one of the EotB series I could actually tolerate. Still playable to this day thanks to the rogue-like nature of it.

 

[mondblut]

Don't have experience with those. In fact, I had to look them up. Seems they were only released for the 3DO, maybe? Can't really speak to how good they were, but judging by what you said, they're probably crap.

Slayer was 3DO, Deathkeep was on pc.

 

[Darth Canoli]

RPG market's short death in the mid 90's

It took a hit late 90's but it "died" 10 years later.
Actually, it didn"t die at all, RPG fans were mostly kids and nerds mostly playing pen and paper.
The video game industry fanbase grew but not the RPG fanbase or at least, way way slower.

The D&D fanbase only started to grow significantly when Lords of the Rings was adapted for the cinema and exponentially when HBO did the same with Game of Thrones.

 

[lycanwarrior]

I'm only interested in the take of people who fulfill all 3 criteria:
- were there
- were at least teen agers
- were RPG players.

Yes to all three.

1. The oversaturation of the market.
Between 1983 and 1998, a grand total of 44 D&D titles came out. And that's just D&D.

My question to you: Did you really feel like there were too many RPGs and you couldn't play them all, hence skipping many of them knowingly?

To me, it always felt the opposite...like there weren't enough good RPGs. Anyone who says it was oversaturated is full of crap. RPGs were always fighting against other game types that were always doing better depending on the year (arcade conversions, fighting games, platformers, adventure games, 3D Shooters, FMV games, etc). The RPGs took up considerably less physical wall space than other game types during that entire period.

2. The lower quality of the games that were being churned out.

My question to you: Did you feel at the time that a lot of the RPGs were just mass produced for a quick cash grab?

Can anyone provide an example of an RPG from the era that was mass produced for a quick cash grab? The most mass produced RPGs of the era might have been the Gold-Box games, but they were usually quite good (some are better than others, of course, but they didn't feel like cash-grabs). This is one of those things that sounds like something someone decided was true in retrospect versus the reality at the time.

3. The market simply stopped growing.

I don't have a question here. Other genres were finding new audiences, DOOM made random office people install it at work, while RPGs had the same audience they always had. And since it's a growth market, the RPG market offered no growth and as such hit the wall, which was a disappointment for a lot of the investors. I don't think any of you were into investing at the time, so I don't think it can be constructively discussed, but feel free to share what you think.

Investors always follow the money. I think DOOM was such a financial success that everyone wanted a piece of that pie. So, of course a lot of the money was going to go there. I think it was less about how the market stopped growing for RPG players (which is bullshit anyway, given how popular AD&D 2e was at the time) and more about the dollar signs that investors saw in 3D shooters. I mean, I put enough hours into DOOM myself to know that it was clearly revolutionary in that moment. It just makes sense.

Reminds of the RTS craze when every other game was as a Warcraft/Starcraft clone.

The gaming market has always been a copy-cat industry, not sure why gamers think the current BR fad was anything particularly special...

 

[anvi]

1995 had Albion for us euros and, err, well, let me think, ... nothing else ?

But year, 1995 was the year of the RTS for most of us. I wasn't even into RPG in 1995 - much too young - so actually I did not play Albion until much later.

Late 90s was unbelievable for gaming.

https://www.metacritic.com/browse/games/score/metascore/year/all/all?year_selected=1996
Civ 2, Quake, Diablo, Duke 3d, Red Alert, OG Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, Tekken 2, Moo2, etc

So many good games Elder Scrolls 2 didn't even make the list.