Preview IGN takes a look at NWN2

[Spazmo]

Tags: Neverwinter Nights 2; Obsidian Entertainment

<a href=http://pc.ign.com>IGN</a> have done a <a href=http://pc.ign.com/articles/666/666403p1.html>preview</a> of Obsidian's latest BioWare sequel, Neverwinter Nights 2.<blockquote>All of the guys we talked to at Obsidian are hardcore gamers, many of whom have been making RPGs for a really long time now. Considering Obsidian as a company is pretty young, this is a great franchise to work with on the road to building the cred to become another huge name like BioWare that can start creating some original IPs. But the sequel is even more than that to these guys. Having worked on the original Neverwinter, they wanted to have another shot at making the game they think the series deserves. As CEO of Obsidian Entertainment Feargus Urquhart says, they're not going to reinvent the wheel with this one, they're going to "Take what it is and make it better."</blockquote>Making original IPs is good. Making original IPs for console action games is not.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.bluesnews.com">Blue's News</A>

 

[aboyd]

The details we have actually point to another typical fantasy genre "save the universe" plot on the surface but it's telling of the tale that really matters.

This is odd. The Obsidian guys are rehashing old plots, while Bioware's "Dragon Age" team has vanquished the "chosen one" cliche and is giving us teasers about multiple starting points. Considering their long history, even before Obsidian, it's a bit of a role-reversal.

 

[Volourn]

Nope. BIo didn't use a 'save the world plot' in BG, BG2, or NWN. Nice ty; though.

BG1 was save yourself from your hateful half brother. BG2 was save yourself from the mad soul sucking wizard, and NWN was save the city (ok that's pretty close to save the world).

Nice try though.

 

[Greatatlantic]

No, NWN was stop the evil, ancient, long time dormant queen from reawakening so as to save the world from enslavement by lizard people. So NWN was indeed save the world.

While we haven't heard to many details aboutn NWN2, there is a lot to make better about it. Now how much staying the course Obsidian plans on doing I don't know, but its hard to believe it will result in anything good.

 

[Volourn]

"No, NWN was stop the evil, ancient, long time dormant queen from reawakening so as to save the world from enslavement by lizard people. So NWN was indeed save the world."

No. It was save the city. Dumbass. And, yourself. Unless you wnated your characetr to be a slave. Hahahaha.

 

[Ellester]

It’s kinda hard to remember that I was saving a city in NWN, as all I remember was collect 4 items so you can continue the plot, repeated over and over and over and over, again…

 

[Volourn]

Just like KOTOR2.

And, no, it wans't always collect 4 items. Why make stuff up? It was THREE words of power.

 

[Chefe]

I might check it out. I just hope there's more to the game than collecting those items like in NWN to advance the plot. Not to happy about another "save the world" type thing like in the first one, either. Nope. What's so wrong with having a story where you don't save the world?

 

[Greatatlantic]

The problem with the save the world plot is its been done to death. And when the best RPGs rely on their stories, having a major plot device you've seen over and over and over tends to ruin the experience. Maybe Obsidian can do something new and interesting with it, but as it stands its not something to get excitted about.

Oh, and Volorn, it really is your word against mine, since we're probably the only people who managed to finish the game. And I say the plot was save the world from vast destruction. Neverwinter just so happen to be build on the ancient evil's "prison", as it were.

 

[bryce777]

The problem with the save the world plot is its been done to death. And when the best RPGs rely on their stories, having a major plot device you've seen over and over and over tends to ruin the experience. Maybe Obsidian can do something new and interesting with it, but as it stands its not something to get excitted about.

Oh, and Volorn, it really is your word against mine, since we're probably the only people who managed to finish the game. And I say the plot was save the world from vast destruction. Neverwinter just so happen to be build on the ancient evil's "prison", as it were.

I really do't care what the plot is, if it's done well, but it would be nice if games concentrated on actual GAMEPLAY a bit.

 

[Crichton]

Oh, and Volorn, it really is your word against mine, since we're probably the only people who managed to finish the game. And I say the plot was save the world from vast destruction. Neverwinter just so happen to be build on the ancient evil's "prison", as it were.

I not only finished the damn thing (and agree wholeheartedly with Greatatlantic), but I have a funny story about the end that pretty-well sums up NWN.

The game was dreadfully dull once I got used to it, but I was willing to play anything with D&D on the label at the time. I made it to the end-game on inertia and blowing through the bosses with "harm". My trusty dwarven cleric had finally made it to the final boss and her minions, two big sword-swinging minions rushed him, and he burned two of his "harm" spells killing them. I don't remember why, but I'd pretty well used up all of his interesting magic before that point, all he had left was a bunch of those force-wave type, do a little damage to everything within 30' spells, completely useless against the boss.

So I charged him into her with his morning star of flaming death. My dwarf had an AC that was higher than George Clinton at home, so she couldn't hit him without a crit. On the other hand, the he wasn't exactly conan the cimmerian so he'd only hit her maybe one swing in eight. It was near thanksgiving and I had packing to do so I left him to it and wandered elsewhere in the room to stuff clothes into bags. 15-20 min later I heard her dying scream as the dwarf finally won it. It occured to me as I was congratulated by some lizard for saving the multiverse that with a few well written macros, that dwarf could have played the whole game without my intervention. Madness.

 

[pseudo intellectual]

My impression of Volourn defending Bioware:

http://jordan.fortwayne.com/ns/features ... devilx.htm

 

[NOVD]

My impression of Volourn defending Bioware:

http://cas.bellarmine.edu/tietjen/Audio/tasde.aiff

I think there's a divide between how funny you thought that would be and how funny it actually was.

I really do't care what the plot is, if it's done well, but it would be nice if games concentrated on actual GAMEPLAY a bit.

I'm okay with a well done "save the world" type of story. I'm also okay with the high fantasy Forgotten Realms setting, if it's portrayed in an interesting way. When a generic "save the world" type story is set in the fairly generic Forgotten Realms, things get a bit hairy.

 

[Drakron]

FR is not generic ... problem is people making it generic.

You want a good place to play?

Try Sembia or Tray (damn, Tray would be cool) ... heck done right the Dales would be a interesting place to adventure with everything that goes on in there.

There are even more places but the problem is how they are unable to move away from the Tolkien pseudo medevil gameworld, BG II is a example of that because if they shown Amn as it was in the same book ("Land of Intrigue" box set) they had no problem in ripping off the text from (I noticed it) you see something that was radical diferent that was in the game and instead of the "half goddess elven queen" we could have a full army making its way over Amn and even if we end up in the forest in the end we could have something else that a generic elf town.

 

[Pegultagol]

I'm okay with a well crafted RPG period.
NWN seems to fit the bill. I may not be anticipating it with excitement, but I will at least wait eagerly for its review.

 

[Atrokkus]

The problem is not with the "save the world" scenario, the problem usually occurs within the implementation of that scenario. I mean, the game could be great even employing this seemingly old and primitive scenario. It's all in how you implement it, elaborate it. For instance, Gothic was a masterpiece that used this old lame goal of saving the world, but the pattern was different, the atmosphere was totally different and innovative, it, as someone aptly put it, "had balls", and the story twists actually made the player's efforts illusionary.

Try Sembia or Tray (damn, Tray would be cool)

Erm, mayhaps you meant Thay. Yeah, Thay would be interesting, but most developers don't like to utilize pure-evil settings, because it would force them to set up some very wicked goals and paint a rather gritty picture of the surroundings, unlike the usual setting where everything is merry-go-around of goodness and fuzziness.

 

[geminito]

The gameplay in NWN 1 was awful. It was like a bad immitation of Diablo. The sluggish follow camera was irritating, and combat felt nothing like D&D. I would like to hear more about how NWN2 will improve on the gameplay, nevermind the story.

ToEE is still by far the best implementation of D&D. Combat was so much fun!

 

[vazquez595654]

are you talking about the same TOEE. The combat was slow ass hell and the game had no story.

 

[theverybigslayer]

The gameplay in NWN 1 was awful.

Why?
I have great memories of that gameplay.
I had found a chest, I clicked on it but couldn't open it. That irritating stupid gay thief cried: "I can open it!". I had to quickly sidestep from the chest so as that dumbfuck thief could open it. If I wasn't fast enough that moron thief was stuck and I had to click again. I was waiting while he was opening it. At last the chest was opened! But I found one more chest
I clicked on it but couldn't open it. That irritating stupid gay thief cried: "I can open it!". I had to quickly sidestep from the chest so as that dumbfuck thief could open it. If I wasn't fast enough that moron thief was stuck and I had to click again. I was waiting while he was opening it. At last the chest was opened! But I had found one more chest
...
unfortunately, after the 50th chest I removed the game

 

[Data4]

The gameplay in NWN 1 was awful.

Why?
I have great memories of that gameplay.
I had found a chest, I clicked on it but couldn't open it. That irritating stupid gay thief cried: "I can open it!". I had to quickly sidestep from the chest so as that dumbfuck thief could open it. If I wasn't fast enough that moron thief was stuck and I had to click again. I was waiting while he was opening it. At last the chest was opened! But I found one more chest
I clicked on it but couldn't open it. That irritating stupid gay thief cried: "I can open it!". I had to quickly sidestep from the chest so as that dumbfuck thief could open it. If I wasn't fast enough that moron thief was stuck and I had to click again. I was waiting while he was opening it. At last the chest was opened! But I had found one more chest
...
unfortunately, after the 50th chest I removed the game

It was so strange, you know...? There was this... bright tunnel... and me muddah was there, and then it was like "YOINK! NOT YET, STEW-PID!"....

-D4

 

[theverybigslayer]

are you talking about the same TOEE. The combat was slow ass hell and the game had no story.

I am sure there is an option to speed up the combat. Google is your friend.

 

[Greatatlantic]

I agree that the gameplay an NWN was awful, but for different reasons. The combat was never suppose to be Diablo, that game was an action RPG. If you've played Planescape Torment, or I assume BG, though I've only played a little bit of that series, you know how the combat in NWN nights should have been. Still not very good, but not the incredible amount of awfulness of NWN. The fact you can only control one character seems to be the reason for this. Then, there is just so much combat. No matter what the task or location, it inevitably involves fighting room after room or hall after hall of bad guys. Now, that worked for Diablo, but Diablo's combat was actually sort of fun. However, RPGs with poor combat can always be redeemed by good plots or just a well put together world with lots of options on how to play. NWN had neither, and that is its ultimate failing. In the very beginning it teases you with a character creation process with nearly infinite possibilities. Yet, in the end there are really only two ways to play--fighter(or barbarian) or caster(wizard or sorcerer). Anything else is just a weaker form of one of those two, or just not a way to play the game(i.e. rogue). If you're a caster you team up with the barbarian who ultimately does most of the killing while you take all the credit for it, and if you're a fighter you'll team up with the cleric who keeps you alive. If fights start to go against you, you simply use the stone of recall to leave, heal up, pay a small fee, and return to start right where you left off since enemies don't heal.

I could go on and on about how bad NWN was, but whats the point? If you're here, chances are you already feel the same way, exception in Volourn.

I'll just say allowing direct control of multiple henchman will go a long way to making the game better. That, and reducing the amount of combat to just a few memorable fights to achieve each goal. Finally, allow the PC to roleplay. One way to do is having a polar good-evil dynamic in the game, but if you settle for just that the game will still be pretty meh.

 

[Sol Invictus]

If I had to choose, I would settle for intelligent but uncontrollable henchmen over KOTOR-style henchmen. I don't much like the 'canned gameplay' that KOTOR and KOTOR2 have to offer. The battles didn't really feel like a challenge, other than the fact that the controls felt rather limited.

I'd really like it however if they implemented Baldur's Gate style combat with improvements, like easily accessible spells and actions. A couple of 15-slotted quickbars for each character ought to do the trick. I don't like having to navigate through a spell book interface or having to click through a scroll list to cast a single spell. With resolutions at 1024x768 and beyond these days, it shouldn't be a problem to implement a fully accessible spell list on the GUI without having to navigate through anything.

You should be able to control your henchmen. NWN's henchmen were pretty bad, and the pathfinding was nonexistent. Likewise, it would be great if you could control your summoned units in RTS fashion, the same way Baldur's Gate allowed you to, instead of automating them.

If they can make uncontrollable henchmen with good AI, I'll take that, but if they can't do that, they might as well implement a system that's ultimately fun to play with and allows the player the control he desires.

 

[Volourn]

Codex proves its stupidity once again!

 

[geminito]

I agree that the gameplay an NWN was awful, but for different reasons. The combat was never suppose to be Diablo, that game was an action RPG. If you've played Planescape Torment, or I assume BG, though I've only played a little bit of that series, you know how the combat in NWN nights should have been.

I didn't mean that I wanted it to play like Diablo. It shouldn't be like diablo at all, but it felt like Action RPG D&D. I agree that there was way too much combat and levelling up was so fast it was ridiculous. ToEE's combat feels slow to people who have never actually played D&D combat. It should be strategic and challenging, not a fast-paced click-fest. Ah well, NWN is its own game. Lots of people liked it. I don't know any, but they're out there.