Game News Underrail Dev Log #54: Specialization and Veteran Level Changes

[Infinitron]

Tags: Stygian Software; Underrail; Underrail: Expedition

Looks like I spoke too soon when I said there were no more new features to introduce for the Underrail: Expedition expansion. Styg has published a new development update to announced that he's reversed most of his plans for high level Veteran characters that were introduced last year. Instead of ceasing to gain ability and skill points on level-up and becoming feat beasts, Veteran level characters will now continue to advance much like normal ones. To make up for that, they'll gain access to unique Specializations that will improve their existing feats. The update explains:

Hi guys. I did some changes regarding veteran levels which I originally introduced back in October.

First of all, player will continue to receive the normal amount of skill points when leveling up even on veteran levels now. Also, derived stats such as health, detection and such will scale normally on veteran levels as well. However, players will also gain a feat every even level instead of every level when leveling on veteran levels. So basically everything is going to work as with normal levels with the exception of the feat pool being expanded with veteran feats once you hit veteran levels.

Allowing of the further skill scaling beyond the 25th level, however, requires us to provide some use for such high skill levels, particularly in crafting. To address this, the end-game areas and stores will have some of its loot/stock scaled up if the Expedition DLC is installed, particularly when it comes to crafting components. In the future, we also intend to address the problem of other non-combat skill scaling (such as social skills and hacking/lockpicking) by adding high level encounters/opportunities, so while currently it might not make sense to max out these skills, in the future it will have benefits.

However, the second, and more important change, is that on veteran levels you'll also get three specialization points.

You use these specialization points to further improve your non-veteran feats, often across specific dimension, as demonstrated in the GIF above. Your investment of points in any given specialization cannot exceed your veteran level (or the maximum allowed points for that specialization).

That's it for now. Let us know how you like these changes.
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It's definitely a more ambitious implementation, what with having to go back and add new high level content to the base game. Maybe that's why the expansion is taking longer than anticipated to complete.

 

[Lurker King]

This is virtual crack. Fuck this.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Aye, when this comes out #fuckmylife

 

[YES!]

Nice. I can't wait for this to come out.

 

[Janise]

Wasnt the release supposed to be in the first half of 2017? What is it now? Still 2017?

 

[Roguey]

Allowing of the further skill scaling beyond the 25th level, however, requires us to provide some use for such high skill levels, particularly in crafting. To address this, the end-game areas and stores will have some of its loot/stock scaled up if the Expedition DLC is installed, particularly when it comes to crafting components. In the future, we also intend to address the problem of other non-combat skill scaling (such as social skills and hacking/lockpicking) by adding high level encounters/opportunities, so while currently it might not make sense to max out these skills, in the future it will have benefits.

Goodbye balance.

I was looking forward to this but now I feel like I'm not even going to bother. Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to replay Underrail I wouldn't want to feel obligated to complete side-story expansion content to even have a chance of beating the Derp Roads. He's taking the least-enjoyable part of the game for many players and making it even less enjoyable.

 

[Janise]

Goodbye balance.

What balance?!

 

[Roguey]

Goodbye balance.

What balance?!

Underrail was pretty balanced. Adding a mid-game expansion and rebalancing the endgame will make it less balanced, as Josh Sawyer found out the hard way with the White March. It boggles the mind why Styg wants to fall into that same hole instead of just making a post-game expansion.

 

[Lurker King]

Roguey, balance in Underrail is achieved by mob combos. Each build is a natural predator of the next one, since each build has a strength and a weakness. A handplaced mob can make players suffer because of their combination and build weakness, no matter how leveled up they are. The problem, of course, is that these handplaced mobs are too few in numbers and are not predefined according to each build. If he designed a way around this, making different mobs pre-selected per skill investment, and more combo mobs at the expenses of weak enemies, then the game would be significantly improved.

 

[Black Angel]

It boggles the mind why Styg wants to fall into that same hole instead of just making a post-game expansion.

Making post-game expansion means people would have to go to Deep Caverns. Even with the many patches and updates, people are still getting pissed off about DC. I know one guy from NMA who's REALLY into Underrail on a second playthrough recently after his not-so-impressed first playthrough back near release date because of DC - and he's getting REALLY pissed off after he's finished with DC for the second time.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Goodbye balance.

What balance?!

As Roguey said, Mid game expansions are terrible for balance and character progression. Is there a single one that didnt fuck up the game?

 

[Roguey]

It boggles the mind why Styg wants to fall into that same hole instead of just making a post-game expansion.

Making post-game expansion means people would have to go to Deep Caverns. Even with the many patches and updates, people are still getting pissed off about DC. I know one guy from NMA who's REALLY into Underrail on a second playthrough recently after his not-so-impressed first playthrough back near release date because of DC - and he's getting REALLY pissed off after he's finished with DC for the second time.

I entered the point of no return at level 17 and finished the game at level 19. Underrail's level cap is 25. So really there's no problem, just have the expansion start tuned for level 15-17 or so and go up from there beyond 19. Leave the DC alone. If people want the difficulty as intended they can do it first, if they want to have an easier time, that's fine too.

 

[Janise]

The combat is completely freeform trivial and brokken with any build that maxes at least one offensive category. The defensive skills are ignorable.
How and why one would actually reach 25 levels is incomprehensible.
?BALANCE?

 

[Lurker King]

It does not matter how overpowered your build is. Under the proper circumstances, it will die. The problem is that these circumstances, .a.k.a, handplaced mobs, are rare and are not taylor-made for each build. Players are practically omniscient. They can die, reload, try different strategies, use consumables, etc. Of course they are going to beat the challenges. That does not make the combat broken. Again, is all about how you deal with handplaced mobs. Every build has a weakness. Styg just need to explore this feature better. Remove those ridiculous filler monsters and invest extra on hand placed mobs.

 

[Janise]

Its even better than Age of Decadence.

 

[toro]

Allowing of the further skill scaling beyond the 25th level, however, requires us to provide some use for such high skill levels, particularly in crafting. To address this, the end-game areas and stores will have some of its loot/stock scaled up if the Expedition DLC is installed, particularly when it comes to crafting components. In the future, we also intend to address the problem of other non-combat skill scaling (such as social skills and hacking/lockpicking) by adding high level encounters/opportunities, so while currently it might not make sense to max out these skills, in the future it will have benefits.

Goodbye balance.

I was looking forward to this but now I feel like I'm not even going to bother. Hypothetically speaking, if I wanted to replay Underrail I wouldn't want to feel obligated to complete side-story expansion content to even have a chance of beating the Derp Roads. He's taking the least-enjoyable part of the game for many players and making it even less enjoyable.

TBH nobody knows what Styg is doing. You are right about the outlook but let's wait before we boo.

 

[Tygrende]

I entered the point of no return at level 17 and finished the game at level 19. Underrail's level cap is 25. So really there's no problem, just have the expansion start tuned for level 15-17 or so and go up from there beyond 19. Leave the DC alone. If people want the difficulty as intended they can do it first, if they want to have an easier time, that's fine too.

If you managed to finish the game with 6 levels below the cap, what makes you think you will be completly unable to beat DC without touching the expansion content? Right now you can already end up with 100+ XP over the cap in oddity, leveling is even faster in classic.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Not sure how I feel about this. Will wait and see. Truth be told while I won't play this game until the expansion, I haven't been disappointed before.

 

[Lacrymas]

As Roguey said, Mid game expansions are terrible for balance and character progression. Is there a single one that didnt fuck up the game?

Tales of the Sword Coast? BG1 is very tight and restrained in general, however. But, otherwise, yeah, I'm not entirely up for mid-game expansions, it needs a very careful hand to not screw everything up after that.

 

[Roguey]

Tales of the Sword Coast? BG1 is very tight and restrained in general, however. But, otherwise, yeah, I'm not entirely up for mid-game expansions, it needs a very careful hand to not screw everything up after that.

Tales of the Sword Coast isn't a midgame expansion, it and Heart of Winter are post-game expansions that can be started once you're near the end of the base campaigns (well if you've been lawn-mowing BG content I suppose you can start it much earlier) and then go beyond.

 

[Severian Silk]

It's weird that there will be two different versions of the original campaign: one for people with the expansion and one without. That's some extra balls to juggle on Styg's part.

 

[flabbyjack]

Oh Styg, you tease you.

Btw, unarmed psi user is crazy fun in this game. Plus you don't need to manage ammo so there is that. Try it out for a replay.

 

[epeli]

It's weird that there will be two different versions of the original campaign: one for people with the expansion and one without. That's some extra balls to juggle on Styg's part.

Indeed. It's going to be quite a bit of overlapping extra work to maintain two branches of the late game. But that might just be the only way to have a mid-game expansion without ruining balance of one or the other.

 

[Severian Silk]

Mid-game expansion makes more sense from a narrative/atmospheric point of view, though. Good luck!

 

[Roguey]

Mid-game expansion makes more sense from a narrative/atmospheric point of view, though. Good luck!

"I know you're on this important mission, but how about going to an entirely different place to do something entirely unrelated" will never make sense from a narrative perspective. It's just something you accept because this is a role playing game and that's what happens.