Development Info Pillars of Eternity II Q&A Stream #8

[Infinitron]

Tags: Aarik Dorobiala; Brian Heins; J.E. Sawyer; Obsidian Entertainment; Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire

The Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire beta has been out for just over two weeks, but it hasn't taken long for the community to identify the things they don't like about it. Just two days after the beta's release, Josh Sawyer had already published a tweetstorm responding to the most common complaints, regarding the game's diminished spell selection for traditional casters, combat speed, the removal of general talents, and other issues. Most people would have been happy to get a new version with just those issues addressed, but Josh had further plans. This Tuesday he published another tweetstorm announcing his decision to experiment with abandoning the concept of the Might attribute (an iconic and oft grognard-lamented element of the first game), replacing it with a more traditional Strength attribute affecting only physical damage (including ranged) and moving spell damage to Resolve in order to make that attribute more attractive. This decision proved so controversial that Josh had to follow up with an extended blog post explaining his reasoning.

It may not be a coincidence that with all of this happening, Obsidian decided on rather short notice to run another Pillars of Eternity II Q&A stream this weekend. The special guest this time was Brian Heins, formerly the project director of Tyranny, now revealed to be a senior designer on Deadfire with the conclusion of that game's development. With the beta now in the wild, the questions asked in this stream were more on point than in previous Q&A sessions. In addition to clarifying some of the game's known issues and recently announced changes, Josh and Brian also revealed new plans to tweak the incentives for resting by removing or reducing the maximum health penalty imposed by injuries. One thing not mentioned in the stream is when this ambitious new beta update is coming out. You can watch the whole thing here:

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For those of us who don't have time to watch, the great Fereed has once again come through with a transcript of the Q&A stream. I wonder if these are going to be more common now.

 

[Quantomas]

Thanks for the transcript! Here is my quick takeaway:

Apparently Obsidian learned from DOS2 that voice acting sells. Good move.

Making the game slower gives more control indeed. Astonishing that it took so long for them to see it. Following Pathfinder: Kingmaker here which has got it right to produce that meaty feeling.

Companion relationships follow the same pattern that MCA laid out for Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

They still have to look at DOS2 to learn what encounter design is.

Brian Heins on PoE2 indicates that they have shelved their plans for a Tyranny trilogy indefinitely.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Do these guys realize how quiet their streams are. I have to turn up the hardware speaker knob to like 75%. You had one job, etc.

 

[Shin]

... he published another tweetstorm announcing his decision to experiment with abandoning the concept of the Might attribute (an iconic and oft grognard-lamented element of the first game), replacing it with a more traditional Strength attribute affecting only physical damage (including ranged) and moving spell damage to Resolve in order to make that attribute more attractive. This decision proved so controversial that Josh had to follow up with an extended blog post explaining his reasoning.

that got my attention...

 

[Zakhad]

Can someone explain to me how the might change is not a Cipher nerf? Cos it looks like a cipher nerf, unless they rebalance that class in other ways to compensate. Either lose damage from weapons that build their focus or lose damage from their abilities. Or do cipher abilities not count as "spells" for this purpose? Sawyer made a quip about not maliciously targeting ciphers on the blog post, without actually explaining anything, and I don't have time to watch that whole stream.

 

[toro]

They still have to look at DOS2 to learn what encounter design is.

Really!? Encounter design in DOS2 is trash.

 

[Bohrain]

They still have to look at DOS2 to learn what encounter design is.

Really!? Encounter design in DOS2 is trash.

It's being compared to PoE and Tyranny.

 

[thesheeep]

I vastly prefer a strength attribute that is tied to... well, bodily strength.
Might really was "damage, the attribute" for everyone and as such pretty damn abstract.

 

[Jestai]

What about LOADING TIMES, one of the worst offenders of the previous game ?

 

[Tacgnol]

I vastly prefer a strength attribute that is tied to... well, bodily strength.
Might really was "damage, the attribute" for everyone and as such pretty damn abstract.

Same.

Felt really weird getting a load of physical brute-force dialogue options on a mage character.

 

[Nazrim Eldrak]

Brian Heins on PoE2 indicates that they have shelved their plans for a Tyranny trilogy indefinitely.

I bet they just wait and see how well PoE2 is going to be and with that input they will try to make a better Tyranny game.

 

[Fredward]

Brian Heins on PoE2 indicates that they have shelved their plans for a Tyranny trilogy indefinitely.

Aww.

 

[Urthor]

I mean the big question with PoE2 is did Tyranny sell like shit a) because it's a bad game b) because people are over real time with pause or c) because releasing a niche RPG on the same day as Call of Duty is the most fucking retarded decision I've seen a studio make with their money in years

We'll find out Q2 2018 when they ship Pillars of Eternity most likely

 

[Cross]

I mean the big question with PoE2 is did Tyranny sell like shit a) because it's a bad game b) because people are over real time with pause or c) because releasing a niche RPG on the same day as Call of Duty is the most fucking retarded decision I've seen a studio make with their money in years

Tyranny released a week after Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare.

It sold badly because after a brief period of Kickstarter campaigns and gaming press reviving interest in the genre, cRPG's returned to what they were: a niche. It is a bad game (and doesn't tickle any nostalgia bone like PoE), so word of mouth couldn't boost its sales either.

 

[Infinitron]

It sold badly because after a brief period of Kickstarter campaigns and gaming press reviving interest in the genre, cRPG's returned to what they were: a niche.

 

[Tigranes]

As he went on to say literally in the next sentence, it's also a bad game.

 

[Trashos]

I haven't played Tyranny, but its marketing was a bit weird. It looked like I was not the intended audience, but then again it was not obvious who its intended audience were.

 

[Urthor]

As he went on to say literally in the next sentence, it's also a bad game.

Even Tyranny's "bad game status" doesn't justify how few copies it sold, especially early on. How much a game sells on day 1 has a lot less to do with its quality and a lot more to do with its marketing and what genre of game it is.

The actual quality impacts the reviews and the post day 1 sales more than the day 1 sales. Tranny didn't have a kickstarter, was a new IP, the release date was horrific and didn't have the "Josh Sawyer presents" tag, which definitely impacts coverage from the gaming press since "journalists" love to hang out with big names.

Thing is we won't have that great of an idea just how much those factors impacted sales until we see PoE2 in May or whenever, a game that will have those factors, and we can isolate just how much the market wants the RTWP genre.

 

[Cross]

It sold badly because after a brief period of Kickstarter campaigns and gaming press reviving interest in the genre, cRPG's returned to what they were: a niche.

D:OS is an anomaly and you know it. No other 'new wave' cRPG has been anywhere near as succesful. Perhaps more crucially, out of those that got a sequel, D:OS 2 is the only one that outsold its predecessor.

It's not as if Tyranny has any shortage of company. The long awaited successor to the legendary Planescape: Torment bombed so hard that Brian Fargo announced his retirement shortly after its release.

Compare those recent failures to say, Blackguards, an RPG in a more niche subgenre (due to the focus on combat and lack of exploration) from an obscure German publisher. It has abysmal Steam userscore and Metacritic ratings, but nonetheless sold 544k copies according to Steamspy. Why? Because, as I said before, it was released at an opportune time, when cRPG's were enjoying a brief period of relative popularity.

 

[Infinitron]

but nonetheless sold 544k copies according to Steamspy.

Sales, bundles, etc. Need to be careful when looking at numbers for old games whose release predates Steamspy (because we don't know how well they sold when they were still new)

I do think the effect you describe is real to some extent, but if there's going to be more than one exception besides D:OS 2, Pillars of Eternity 2 will be it. We'll see!

 

[LESS T_T]

Yeah, looking at its isthereanydeal history, Blackguards has bundled 6 or 7 times, did 50% discount after three months from the release, and it's been frequently discounted to few bucks last two years.

If anyone is interested: https://isthereanydeal.com/game/blackguards/history/#/chart:price

 

[Cross]

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectete...nny_is_discounted_on_the_paradox_store_right/

Tyranny is discounted on the Paradox store right now, and the -50% coupon stacks with that discount!

I got the Commander edition for about 14€, instead of the ordinary discounted price of 28€.

http://store.steampowered.com/news/33903/

Play Torment: Tides of Numenera for FREE starting now through Sunday at 1PM Pacific Time. You can also pickup Torment: Tides of Numenera at 55% off the regular price!*

 

[LESS T_T]

https://www.reddit.com/r/projectete...nny_is_discounted_on_the_paradox_store_right/

Tyranny is discounted on the Paradox store right now, and the -50% coupon stacks with that discount!

I got the Commander edition for about 14€, instead of the ordinary discounted price of 28€.

Well that was the coupon given to PoE 2 backers. The first real "50% moment" for Tyranny was June this year, seven months from the release.

The thing is, Blackguards has been selling at very low average price and 544K might be not that great number considering that. (Certainly not a small number, yeah.) Over half of the owners never even played the game according to SteamSpy.

 

[Trashos]

D:OS is an anomaly and you know it. No other 'new wave' cRPG has been anywhere near as succesful. Perhaps more crucially, out of those that got a sequel, D:OS 2 is the only one that outsold its predecessor.

It's not as if Tyranny has any shortage of company. The long awaited successor to the legendary Planescape: Torment bombed so hard that Brian Fargo announced his retirement shortly after its release.

Compare those recent failures to say, Blackguards, an RPG in a more niche subgenre (due to the focus on combat and lack of exploration) from an obscure German publisher. It has abysmal Steam userscore and Metacritic ratings, but nonetheless sold 544k copies according to Steamspy. Why? Because, as I said before, it was released at an opportune time, when cRPG's were enjoying a brief period of relative popularity.

Might be true, but are the games you mention good games? Let's see if a decent game flops, then we 'll know.

 

[azimuth]

So Tyranny has "Mostly Positive" reviews on Steam and a 4-star average rating on GOG.

I feel like anyone interested in RPGs is not going to look at that and think, "Bad game. I'll stay away."

It's marketing. (Obviously.)