Preview KotOR preview at Games First

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

<A href="http://gamesfirst.com/">Games First</a> has posted a <a href="http://gamesfirst.com/previews/todd/sw_kotor/sw_kotor.htm">mini-preview</a> of <A href="Http://www.swkotor.com">Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic</a>. You know, that wacky, zany Star Wars setting CRPG being made by <a href="http://www.bioware.com">BioWare</a>.
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<blockquote>The direction the game takes is quite refreshing. Rather than try to assimilate their game into the already crowded timeline surrounding Episodes 1-6, the decision was made to lay the title?s foundation in the distant past. Knights of the Old Republic, as the name implies, will take place thousands of years before the birth of Galactic Empire we all loved to hate. Gamers will come face to face with a completely fresh cast full of heroes and villains as compelling as Luke and Vader ever were. Whoever it was that said history was boring will be eating their words next year.</blockquote>
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4,000 years before the movies, but all the technology is the same. I'm guessing you'll find several reminders that it's 4,000 years before the movies several places in the game, probably in journals on dead bodies on Tatooine, the <s>Death</s>Doom Star, and a few other places.
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Spotted this at <a href="http://www.homelanfed.com">HomeLAN Fed</a>.

 

[Deathy]

Maybe you'll turn out to live forever and eventually father Darth Vader in the end.

 

[Section8]

Maybe you'll turn out to be the son of the bad guy, and some kind of royal figure is your long lost twin sister. It really wouldn't surprise me.

 

[Azael]

That's one of the things I hate about the so-called Extended Universe, the fact that technology hasn't made any significant leaps for thousands of years, whichs seems like bullshit to me. If you have a stable government with long periods of peace, science and philosophy are bound to blossom.

Hooray for mini-games!

 

[Rosh]

Or how about conflict? There's nothing like a good conflict or war to give inventions and the tech industry a good kick up the ass.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yup, both conflict and peace are good for furthering science(except in Star Wars, apparently).

 

[Jarinor]

When is there not conflict or peace? When is not a good time for science to advance? Really, those comments are rather stupid (although Saint appears to have picked up on this as well) - conflict and peace are good for science? Think about what you write people.

 

[Rosh]

When is there not conflict or peace? When is not a good time for science to advance? Really, those comments are rather stupid (although Saint appears to have picked up on this as well) - conflict and peace are good for science? Think about what you write people.

Tech progression in the Star Wars universe has been pretty fucked up.
Throughout even the three original movies, there were changes made on blasters and lightsabers. Luke, a comparativily barely-educated kid, much less studied in Jedi technology as entire planets populated with Jedi, made improvements upon the lightsaber design. Exactly how the hell is that supposed to make any sense?

Then we could also go by numerous historic facts that war brings out necessity and urgency to improve upon existing tech or invent new techs. I would have thought it obvious that a substantial amount of conflict, requiring a side to pool together scientists and fund them for the specific task of making a munitions skunkworks, would be the point of "conflict". Another good example would be what prompted the development of nuclear weapons in the first place. That was definitely at a time of conflict.

4k years and the same tech level? Conflict would have increased the munitions aspect of technology (pay attention to this pertinent fact, Sparky), and peace would have seen that tech be turned towards domestic use. Then again, the Star Wars universe is nearly always in a state of war, so there would have been constant increases of tech, even surviving through "Dark Ages". The tech advances would still be retained through peace-time in some form or another. During peace-time, there is more attention towards medical matters and other aspects of technology other than munitions, which would be mostly irrelevent in relation to talking about weapons, which is going to be 99% of the focus of the game anyways knowing Bioware.

 

[Ausir]

Well, Star Wars is not science-fiction, but space fantasy. In most fantasy worlds the tech level is the same for ages too (they use the same sword design for thousands of years)...

Besides, the technology in Star Wars goes backwards - they have better tech in episodes 1 and 2 than in the old trilogy.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Throughout even the three original movies, there were changes made on blasters and lightsabers. Luke, a comparativily barely-educated kid, much less studied in Jedi technology as entire planets populated with Jedi, made improvements upon the lightsaber design. Exactly how the hell is that supposed to make any sense?

I thought Luke was fairly educated in machinery, since he was working on the droids after Owen purchased them.

the funny thing is that Owen had grown up with C3-P0 on Tattooine, but Owen didn't recognise him in Star Wars when he purchased C3-P0. Even more amusing is that C3-P0 didn't know anything about Tattooine or recognise the place where he spent ten years of his "life" as well.

Oh, that wasky George Lucas. What a nutty nut!

Then we could also go by numerous historic facts that war brings out necessity and urgency to improve upon existing tech or invent new techs. I would have thought it obvious that a substantial amount of conflict, requiring a side to pool together scientists and fund them for the specific task of making a munitions skunkworks, would be the point of "conflict". Another good example would be what prompted the development of nuclear weapons in the first place. That was definitely at a time of conflict.

Well, that's the thing. If they had mastered the manipulation of light the way they had with light sabers 4,000 years in the past, then they damned well should have had something a hell of a lot better than light sabers in the movies. You should be able to just push a button and microwave someone to death in the next room, or have a tiny ring that bends laser blaster shots around you.

 

[Jed]

Well, that's the thing. If they had mastered the manipulation of light the way they had with light sabers 4,000 years in the past, then they damned well should have had something a hell of a lot better than light sabers in the movies. You should be able to just push a button and microwave someone to death in the next room, or have a tiny ring that bends laser blaster shots around you.

Oh, I don't know Saint...with Bio at the helm, we might just see this kind of l3wt very soon...

 

[Rosh]

I thought Luke was fairly educated in machinery, since he was working on the droids after Owen purchased them.

True, but he was a handyman at best, NOT a full-blown engineer. The facrt that the components for lightsabres are considered to be a bit hard to construct and come by...seriously, do you think he sent off for Jedi Tech By Mail while he was on Hoth? The training to be able to work in that tech would have been a bit hard to come by as there wasn't too many people who used lightsabres and there wasn't much else akin to that.

the funny thing is that Owen had grown up with C3-P0 on Tattooine, but Owen didn't recognise him in Star Wars when he purchased C3-P0. Even more amusing is that C3-P0 didn't know anything about Tattooine or recognise the place where he spent ten years of his "life" as well.

Funny, isn't it? Or Darth Vader, or a number of other plot holes Loose-Screw Lucas has put in. True, Darth Vader and the robots didn't quite meet in the movies until later, but he should have seen them at least a few times on the gas mine station.

Oh, that wasky George Lucas. What a nutty nut!

"Senile imbecile" is more like it. I wonder if there will be any non-SW geeks watching ep 7-9.

Well, that's the thing. If they had mastered the manipulation of light the way they had with light sabers 4,000 years in the past, then they damned well should have had something a hell of a lot better than light sabers in the movies. You should be able to just push a button and microwave someone to death in the next room, or have a tiny ring that bends laser blaster shots around you.

In Star Wars neither sanity nor intelligence come into contact with the plot at any point.
- Darth Nietzsche

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

True, but he was a handyman at best, NOT a full-blown engineer. The facrt that the components for lightsabres are considered to be a bit hard to construct and come by...seriously, do you think he sent off for Jedi Tech By Mail while he was on Hoth? The training to be able to work in that tech would have been a bit hard to come by as there wasn't too many people who used lightsabres and there wasn't much else akin to that.

Well, we're not talking about anything modern here, Rosh. KotOR proves that lightsabers are 4,000 years old, after all! :D

You know, I'm also amazed that after 4,000 years, no one's figured out that while Jedi can block blaster shots with a light saber, a machine gun should make quick work of one or an old fashioned shotgun with buckshot. With all the enemies the Jedi must have racked up being the good guys for so long, you'd think at least one enemy would have come up with a weapon that could effectively kill them right and left.

Funny, isn't it? Or Darth Vader, or a number of other plot holes Loose-Screw Lucas has put in. True, Darth Vader and the robots didn't quite meet in the movies until later, but he should have seen them at least a few times on the gas mine station.

Yeah, I've often wondered why Darth Vader didn't recognise his own handy work there.

 

[Rosh]

Well, we're not talking about anything modern here, Rosh. KotOR proves that lightsabers are 4,000 years old, after all! :D

That makes it even MORE fucked up. 4000 years that it had a chance to innovate, or is about the same? Or how about the larger amounts of Jedi a few years earlier, who could have done a shitload more work on lightsaber tech than one kid on his own. That lightsaber that Obi-Wan gave Luke was from a time when they were likely in heavy development and progress. As Darth Vadar remarks in Ep 6 that Luke has improved upon the design? Based off of a model that was at a time when many Jedi were likely actively working on development (albeit after 4000 years of working development/use), and pulled some improvement out of his ass on a sprint-loaded mount.

 

[Azael]

Guess I was a bit quick with my comment on scientific/technological growth in times of peace, although I didn't mean to say that improvements aren't made in times of crisis. Still, the relative long periods of peace following the Sith War, combined with the (I assume) conservative guardianship of the Jedi, might be why weapons haven't evolved much. Of course, four millenia is too long a time period without any significant changes.

As for the plot holes in the movies, especially those regarding the droids, I assume that they had a memory swipe sometime between Episodes 3 and 4. Why Vader doesn't recognize 3P0 is another issue, but either he's getting senile in his old age or most protocol droids look the same.

What really surprises me about the Jedi is how they rely solely on their lightsabers and their lack of tactics. Episode 2's big battle was a huge failure for them, considering that they lost a lot more Jedi then they were out to save. No wonder the morons got wiped out.

Either way, it wouldn't surprise me if, like Saint_Proverbius said, yet another weapon of ultimate power came in play in this game, would be right up both Bio's and Lucas' alley.

 

[Spazmo]

What astounds me is that Anakin built C3PO from spare parts and assorted junk--and yet 3PO looks exactly like any normal, factory-produced protocol droid. What the hell?

 

[Rosh]

Yup, yet another oops.

I swear, he doesn't do like Jeunet and Caro, and develop out the setting before he comes up with the story. The way Lucas writes, it's like a giant improv act.

 

[Sol Invictus]

When is there not conflict or peace? When is not a good time for science to advance? Really, those comments are rather stupid (although Saint appears to have picked up on this as well) - conflict and peace are good for science? Think about what you write people.

War. War is the competitive engagement between two or more adversarial nations. War fuels the arms industry, and the arms industry (which includes everything from civilian airplane manufacturers, to gun designers, to MIT and the University of Berkeley.) does what it does best - Research & Development. See if you can figure out who invented RADAR, the atomic bomb, from what design the Concorde originated from, fusion cells, the internet, and so on and why.

If not for the cold war, we probably wouldn't have as much chemical, biological and psychotropic technology as we do today.

If not for WW2, we'd still be flying around in Zeppelins. Oh, and there wouldn't be any such thing as a 'hang glider', either.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

What astounds me is that Anakin built C3PO from spare parts and assorted junk--and yet 3PO looks exactly like any normal, factory-produced protocol droid. What the hell?

Just making the droid in and of itself bothered me, not so much the fact that it's skin was perfect. We're talking an eight year old kid making an artifical intelligence that knows thousands of different languages, here.

I mean, Luke could have been an electronics whiz. That's possible. He could have seen something in the light saber that he could have tweaked given experience with other systems that he had a unique perspective on. That's entirely possible. Not likely, but possible.

However, making an AI is a bitch. A child doing that is fairly extreme, given that the child was born in to slavery, no less. Luke had a free existance, basically, one where he was able to learn complex machinary like droid maintenance and repair, as well as the systems on Owen's farm. Luke also didn't make improvements to that light saber until after he was exposed to Rebel tech and Jedi training.. Making a droid from spare parts given Anakin's upbringing is just obnoxiously bad.

Furthermore, Anakin may have learned some languages from his mother, but thousands of them? By age 8? I don't care how gifted a child of eight years old is, there's only so much time there they can be taught that stuff. Given that his mom was supposedly overworked, and Anakin also worked for that blue bug creature as well.. There's not a hell of a lot of time for her to instruct him in many languages, let alone a thousand of them.

About the only explanation for that would be the people in Star Wars were all just amazingly intelligent, way beyond the intelligence of earth type humans. If that's the case, then 4,000 years without technological development would be more ludicrious than it is already.

 

[Ausir]

War... peace.. What are you, people, Shadows and Vorlons?

Who are you? What do you want?
Get the hell out of our galaxy!

 

[Azael]

I'd say that a much more plausible solution is that Anakin simply used "language chips" from other, discarded, protocol droids.

 

[chrisbeddoes]

There are natural limits at what technology can do .
Mayby everything is known but technology has reached its limit.
Mayby everything has been discovered.

 

[Jed]

There are natural limits at what technology can do .
Mayby everything is known but technology has reached its limit.
Mayby everything has been discovered.

So if the orginal SW series happened a "long, long time ago...," and KoTOR happens 4000 or so years before then, and everything has already been discovered, does that define the situation at hand as Archeopostmodernism? Prepostmodernism? Or just a dearth of creativity and vision on Lucas' part? The last two movies seemed written by committee...hard to believe that they're actually worse than the Dune prequels. But maybe that's simply a problem with prequels, the need "writers" feel to have every character included and accounted for, and having to establish pre-existing relationships to the future that feel so contrived and unlikely...makes for a very claustrophobic setting, a feature hardly lending itself to the ostensibly "epic" scope of the continuing dynasties of once-classic sci-fi that should have been left alone.

2 cents,
Jed

 

[Spazmo]

That's what's good about fantasy settings: you can assume that they have swords, they have horses, and that's pretty much it.