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Company News Molyneux talking crazy again

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
Tags: Lionhead Studios

Molyneux has been spotted in Leipzig by <a href=http://www.computerandvideogames.com>CVG</a> spies who report that the brilliant designer is <a href=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=144900>ready to revolutionize the poor genre again</a>:
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<blockquote>Calling for combat to become 'dramatic, varied and innovative' Molynuex said that gaming could learn a lot from movies and went on to show some scenes from Kill Bill, where Uma Thurman slaughters the 88's in a welter of spectacular one-shot violence. Molyneux said he believed one sword blow should be enough to kill in a game and he thought that if designers adopted a 'one-hit one-kill' system it would intensify the combat and the drama to unprecedented heights.</blockquote>It would either turn a game into a reload-fest or a God-like mode. Awesome.
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<blockquote> Molyneux also pondered the fact that he reckoned 80 per cent of gamers only ever really used one button at a time, suggesting that new developments in game context sensitivity would mean that a single button press could be assigned to many actions. </blockquote>I wonder if a thought that 80 per cent of gamers would enjoy a turd in a shiny wrapper occured to him earlier. That would definitely explain Fable.
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FrancoTAU

Cipher
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Messages
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Location
Brooklyn, NY
How he has gone from creative genius to a guy who sounds like all he's ever played was Pong absolutely stuns me.

What he's basically suggesting is that we should have arcade or atari gameplay where you get 3 lives and die from one hit and badly timed jumps.
 

flabbyjack

Arcane
Joined
Jul 15, 2004
Messages
2,618
Location
the area around my keyboard
Serious Sam was alright and that was 1 hit 1 kill intensive.

"Molyneux also pondered the fact that he reckoned 80 per cent of gamers only ever really used one button at a time" It's a fact!

Molyneux only ever really uses one brain cell at a time.
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Well, one-hit kills are not all that common even in RL. Expecially if opponents are semi-decently armored.
Anyway, I like realistic approach to death and injury, but that would require a very careful approach to prevent, like VD said: "Realoadfest or God mode".
I think it's possible. It can be done, and done to be fun... I wonder if M-guy will be able to do it, though.
Once he left Bullfrog, his games were getting worse with every passing year.
 

obediah

Erudite
Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
5,051
Our brains are too small to judge his genius. We should get down on our knees and let his wisdom rain down on us!

Ewww, his wisdom is brown and stinky, and it's clumping in my hair.

EDIT: Increased twototoo correct usage rate from 50 to 100 parsent.
 

corvax

Augur
Joined
Jul 13, 2004
Messages
731
I give him credit for at least thinking outside the box. The fact that he's way way way outsided the box is a different matter.
 

Direwolf

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Pōneke
I believe it can only be realistically be done in a tactical game, not RPG. For example Mount & Blade will benefit greatly from one-shot-kills, but in RPGs, where you have HP and stats, it will defy the purpose of the game. But then again, I love tactical games like OFP and R6, just because of that. Sure you can get killed by one bullet, but you can also kill anyone with just one bullet. It is brutal, but it is fair.
 

Seboss

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 27, 2006
Messages
947
Vault Dweller said:
Molyneux also pondered the fact that he reckoned 80 per cent of gamers only ever really used one button at a time, suggesting that new developments in game context sensitivity would mean that a single button press could be assigned to many actions.
Forget about the Wii-mote, here is the controller of the future according to Raving Pete:

speedking.jpg
 

Gambler

Augur
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
767
It would either turn a game into a reload-fest or a God-like mode.
Depends on the implementatiom. I'm all for 1-hit kills if they would be done properly. RPGs don't have to have HPs. Dexterity, armor, shields and parrying skills can be used to create a much better combat than your standard D&D grind. Combat tactics would actually mean a bit more than dealing extra 2 HP of damage to 150 HP opponent.
 

Atrokkus

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Feb 6, 2005
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Borat's Fantasy Land
One-hit kills are suitable only for multiplayeer (and sometimes singleplayer) shooters/actions. Jedi knight demonstrated the beauty of realistic melee combat. Games like Operation Flashbpoint and other realistic shooters do a good job in, well, being realistic. As realistic as a computer game can possibly be, that is.

As far as RPGs are concerned, I think realism is harmful to the gameplay value.
 
Joined
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Galway
Computer Games are just turning into movies, with more gloss and less interaction. He's just making predictions based on the prevailing trends.
 

Nog Robbin

Scholar
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Jan 24, 2006
Messages
392
Location
UK
Seboss said:
Vault Dweller said:
Molyneux also pondered the fact that he reckoned 80 per cent of gamers only ever really used one button at a time, suggesting that new developments in game context sensitivity would mean that a single button press could be assigned to many actions.
Forget about the Wii-mote, here is the controller of the future according to Raving Pete:

speedking.jpg

I had one of them back when I had a C64 - awesome joystick, really robust. Back then joysticks did only have one button :)

I can't see one button cutting the mustard now, unless that one button activates a menu from which you choose what you want to do. Ok for tactical turn based games maybe, but not really for action games.

As for the movie aspect, a one hit kill seems a bit over the top - sure, in an FPS a headshot will kill (in many games it does), but an RPG where the player controls the character (rather than just directing the actions) won't really work as it penalises those without fast joystick skills - it becomes player oriented rather than character oriented. So it may work for an action game, but not really an RPG. In my opinion...
 

Sae

Novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
29
I loved how Teudogar handled realistic combat, and I wish more RPGs would try the wound system. However, it looks like Molyneux has decided to compare medieval fantasy combat with a modern armorless ninja-related slaughter(although not all of the 88s were killed in one hit, but I'm sure he'll forget that).

Although I'm fine with only having to use my mouse. :wink:
 

Surlent

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
825
Microsoft owns Molyneusx's ass, he's officially money grinding asset nowadays. He has always been an asshat though.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,751
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Vault Dweller said:
Molyneux also pondered the fact that he reckoned 80 per cent of gamers only ever really used one button at a time, suggesting that new developments in game context sensitivity would mean that a single button press could be assigned to many actions.
I agree. Pressing a single button should result in attacking, blocking, evading, casting a Lightning Bolt and drinking a healing potion - all at once. It would make the interface more streamlined and elevate the dead genre to new, yet unknown heights.
 

Mr.Rocco

Novice
Joined
Feb 28, 2006
Messages
65
Isn't this Moly asswipe responsible for Fable? Everytime I read about this clown, all he does is making excuses on why his recent games failed because of the outside factors. How about, your game failed because it sucked? Don't know which one is a bigger clown; pete "we didn't have enough time" moly or pete "oblivious is the bestest evar!" hines.
 

Walkin' Dude

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 22, 2006
Messages
796
Levski 1912 said:
Buttons are passe. What we truly need is a game that plays itself- it'll be revolutionary!

It's called Progress Quest. You roll up a character, and let it run. Soon you will be swimming in Phat Lewt and Epik Levels.
 

YourConscience

Scholar
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Feb 9, 2006
Messages
537
Location
In your head, obviously
Hey guys, while I agree with you criticism in general, in this case you missed the point completely. I was at that talk and what he was really trying to say was the following: A combat should not just be about bashing 100 times on an enemy until 100 times 10 hit points equals those 1000 hitpoints the enemy had in the beginning. Instead any lethal blow must be detected as such by the game.

Additionally and most importantly, it's not just about simply bashing the sword, it's about using it or any other item as a weapon - something like the gravity gun in halflife deathmatch. So if your character happens to look at an enemy which is too far away to reach with his sword and the player presses is *one* button then the game should understand that the intention of the player is not to whoosh with his sword, also not to throw his sword, but to kick that chair which happens to be standing right in front of you towards the enemy. And that depending on how the chair hits the enemy, the enemy should either successfully avoid the chair, be hit and fall down for a moment or be killed by a lucky hit on the head by an edge of the chair.

Then he went on to explain that this is currently impossible because the premade animation creation is not flexible enough for something like that and procedural animation is the only way to go. It's also impossible, because this context sensitiveness is very costly in terms of CPU power. It is also very complex for the AI to handle such situations. He actually showed some prototype implementations of his ideas which really showed convincingly that such combat would really be fun and a combation situation in a bar would really feel very different from a combat situation in a corridor.

Of course it is sad to see that one of the brightest minds in the game industry puts so much thought into something which I think isn't all that important at all (I mean there are plenty of very interesting games which do not have any combat at all). Also his way of showing his points by making fun of other people's work isn't very fair and I despise such a thing.

It's also strange to see him talking about such innovative concepts without even mentioning other existing implementations of key elements of his ideas, such as the mentioned gravity gun or the mount & Blade combat, which is very near to his no-hitpoints idea. While M&B has hitpoints, there are many ways to deal an insta-death blow in that game. And this game also excellently shows that Molyneux is right when he says that a sword must feel sharp (by doing away with hitpoints): In M&B if a knight in full plate armor is approaching me on his heavy warhorse and I stand there with my bow, out of ammo, then it really *feels* quite hopeless.
 

Human Shield

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Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
2,027
Location
VA, USA
Direwolf said:
I believe it can only be realistically be done in a tactical game, not RPG. For example Mount & Blade will benefit greatly from one-shot-kills, but in RPGs, where you have HP and stats, it will defy the purpose of the game. But then again, I love tactical games like OFP and R6, just because of that. Sure you can get killed by one bullet, but you can also kill anyone with just one bullet. It is brutal, but it is fair.

Why should the purpose of RPGs be to trade blows? Heroic fighting or fantasy doesn't define RPGs, damaging combat that keeps strategy can create much better gameplay.
 

Sae

Novice
Joined
Jul 20, 2006
Messages
29
I wish I had the superhuman strength neccissary to hurl a man to the other side of the room by tapping him with a mug and to kick a chair with such force that pieces of it fly to each side of the room after it shatters on the skull of a guy who was just sort of standing there, not being white. Damn minorites. :evil:
 

Gambler

Augur
Joined
Apr 3, 2006
Messages
767
and the player presses is *one* button
That's what active pause is for. You press one button (space), game stops, and you do all the other stuff.
 

Human Shield

Augur
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Messages
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VA, USA
Gambler said:
and the player presses is *one* button
That's what active pause is for. You press one button (space), game stops, and you do all the other stuff.

No he is talking about an action button that just plays the animation of whatever the player is close to, so you just mash the button and move around and you win.

And same could be done better and with more thinking with a phase-based system, but they don't want to make planning games.

And Molyneux is focusing on action, not a consistent and real gameworld. Blizzard already built on the "glass cannon" enemy design, and action games since Robotron and Wolfenstein have been based on quickly killing lots of things. Molyneux probably had the thought one day (probably while playing a game that had it) and didn't care to look around but announced that his vision is better and "called on the industry" to listen to him.
 

Keldryn

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Messages
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Location
Vancouver, Canada
Some very good points of criticism in here. However, I also have to agree with YourConscience in that the original post is taking these statements out of context.

With regards to one-hit kills:
It would either turn a game into a reload-fest or a God-like mode. Awesome.
What he's basically suggesting is that we should have arcade or atari gameplay where you get 3 lives and die from one hit and badly timed jumps.


Have you guys played Bushido Blade on the Playstation? It's a weapon-based fighting game, but unlike Soul Calibur, you don't just whack each other with your swords until one fighter's hit point bar hits zero. The controls are fairly complex, as is typical in fighting games of the Virtua Fighter style, and the game also adds three stances which determine the moves that are available to you. Certain attacks are more or effective versus a high/low/medium stance, and each stance defends better against particular attacks. One quick blow to the head or chest will often -- but not always -- kill you. Strikes to the arms or legs will disable that particular limb, usually after 1 to 3 hits. Yes, it is possible to be stuck kneeling/crouching and defending yourself because your legs have been taken out (and occasionally winning that duel with a well-timed riposte).

It's actually a really great game. I think it's one of the more intelligent fighters out there, and I find it to be somewhat more strategic, relying less upon memorized combos of up, down, A, X, left, B, up, up, up, A+B.... Duels tend to end very quickly, or continue for a long time. An Action/RPG based on this type of fighting system could be pretty cool; your accumulated XP could be used to improve your on-screen character's responsiveness, ability to evade blows, accuracy with his/her own strikes, etc.

As a side note, the fighting areas in Bushido Blade are quite large, and are connected to one another, so that you can actually run away from your opponent into an adjoining "arena" and continue the fight there.

Molyneux also pondered the fact that he reckoned 80 per cent of gamers only ever really used one button at a time, suggesting that new developments in game context sensitivity would mean that a single button press could be assigned to many actions.

This isn't necessarily a bad idea. Think of games like Ocarina of Time, The Wind Waker, or Beyond Good & Evil on the Gamecube and how the A button (the green one in the centre) is used to examine something, pick up an object, perform a leaping attack, evade, crawl, leap onto and grab a rope, sidle against a wall, or perform any number of other actions, depending on the context. And then think back to the Apple II-era Ultima games with all of its (i)gnite torch, (j)immy lock, (k)limb ladder, (d)escend ladder, and the like, which are all essentially the "Use" command. Or the old Sierra text-parser games where you could spend 15 minutes trying to figure out which synonym for "use" the designers wanted you to use for a particular task. You don't need a "jump" button in the 3D Zelda games, as you only need to run (not walk) off of an edge (with an eligible landing spot in range) for the game to know that you are jumping. It wouldn't be a great system for a true platforming game, but it works very well for adventure or RPG titles.

Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time has a somewhat more complex control scheme, but I've always been impressed with how easy it is to pull off some very fluid moves without convoluted button presses, mainly due to contextual sensitivity. That doesn't mean the game is easy, but that the controls aren't a barrier to experiencing all the game has to offer.

I think that's mainly what Molyneux is getting at; I highly doubt he's advocating a return to one-button joysticks. But today's gamepads with their 10-12 buttons are perhaps a little excessive, as are PC games with dozens of different keystroke commands.

Hell, just think of Ultima VII: Left mouse button - hands, right mouse button - feet. Left-click once on an object to look at it, double click it to use it, click and drag to move it. Hold down the right mouse button to walk, or double click it to walk to a specific location. You basically have context-sensitive, one-button interaction with the entire world.

I believe it can only be realistically be done in a tactical game, not RPG. For example Mount & Blade will benefit greatly from one-shot-kills, but in RPGs, where you have HP and stats, it will defy the purpose of the game. But then again, I love tactical games like OFP and R6, just because of that. Sure you can get killed by one bullet, but you can also kill anyone with just one bullet. It is brutal, but it is fair.

As a couple others have pointed out, you can have an RPG without Hit Points. A few pencil & paper RPGs have used a wound status sytem, such several of the West End Games' RPGs -- Star Wars and later their other games based on the D6 System, and Paranoia. I think some of the D20-based games use it as well, and I know it's an option in the D&D 3.5 Unearthed Arcana book. When you get hit, you make a check of some sort (such as your Strength or Toughness or a Vitality Save verus your opponent's damage roll) to determine if you get wounded, which may slide you one category futher down on the continuum. It might be Healthy --> Wounded --> Incapacitated --> Mortally Wounded --> Dead, for example. (I think Paranoia added "Very Dead" and "Vaporized" to that scale as well.) It's a decent way of avoiding inflatable Hit Points and the process of having to grind them down as the totals get higher and higher.

Most RPG combat systems eventually boil down to this same war of attrition, as the player and the AI-controlled opponents trade blows that do X amount of damage Y number of times until X*Y exceeds one combatant's Hit Point total. Well, not just RPG combat systems, and it tends to apply to both turn-based and real-time combats. The game needs to be smart enough to take the environment into account, and if the PC ends up backed into a corner holding his massive greatsword, then pressing the "attack" button won't try to swing the sword when it will most certainly strike the walls, but will have the PC kick his opponent, head butt, strike with the pommel, or even drop one hand from the sword and grab a torch conveniently within reach on the wall.
 

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