Company News Geneforge 2 forum now open

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Geneforge 2

Welp, it's May now, so <A href="http://www.spidweb.com">Spiderweb Software</a> has finally gotten around to <a href="http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=16">creating a forum</a> for <a href="http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/geneforge2/index.html">Geneforge 2</a>, the sequel to my much loved <a href="http://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/geneforge/index.html">Geneforge</a>. There's already some fun rumors, like <A href="http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000002">what ending is the right ending</a> of the first one for the setting of the sequel. There's already <A href="http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000006">silly demands for character transfering</a>. There's also a neat thread about <A href="http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000005">experience and skill level caps</a>.
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[Vault Dweller]

There's already silly demands for character transfering

I have yet to see a forum for a sequel that does not have requests for character transfering regardless of a setting, rules, balance, and a storyline.

 

[Spazmo]

And you know the only game I've ever heard of that actually did do it?

That's right, it was everybody's favorite pseudo-RPG, Baldur's Gate.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

I actually thought it was a pretty good way to go in BG2, since you started off mid-level anyway. Too bad the rest of the game sucked.

Who would ever want to transfer a Geneforge character, though? Yeah, you're 25th level and used all the canisters and the Geneforge. Even if they stripped you of all equipment, it would be a joke.

 

[udarnik]

You could transfer your characters from Wizardry 7 to Wizardry 8. It changed your starting story and allowed you to bring a few unique items from Wiz 7. Considering it took them NINE YEARS to make Wiz 8, that's a pretty remarkable character transfer.

 

[Jed]

I just want to know if there will be kewl portraits...and if I can customize the colors of my creatures.

 

[Rosh]

The only way character transfer would be done well would be if it was in a "legacy" method.

You know the hot springs quest in Avernum? Imagine if you were to import your final savegame from Avernum to Avernum 2. If you helped with the hot springs, you'd see it half-finished, maybe to find something. Or if you didn't help him, you might be able to find the dead body of the guy who wanted to make a hot springs, found somewhere as he was unsuccessful in scouting. And if you didn't help him, you'd be able to get a rewards of a sort found on him.

The irony in that planning, eh?

For Fallout and Fallout 2, the same could have been done in taking the individual endings and reflecting them into Fallout 2 in some ways. Takes a bit more time, but encourages more sales of the previous games and starting with them instead of just jumping in with later in the series.

Now only if marketing thought like me, then there may be some sales. Instead you get retard Caen and his fumbling around with Interplay with corporate buzzwords and other garbage.

 

[Elwro]

And you know the only game I've ever heard of that actually did do it?

That's right, it was everybody's favorite pseudo-RPG, Baldur's Gate.

Well, BG wasn't the ONLY one:

Eye of the Beholder 1-3

On Amiga you could transfer your party from Dungeon Master to Chaos Strikes Back.

 

[Zetor]

Also
- Bard's Tale 1-3
- all the Gold Box game series: CoK->DKK->DQK, PoR->CAB->SSB->PoD, GSF->TSF, BR1->BR2
- Magic Candle 1-3 (protagonist only...you could even import the protagonist from Keys to Maramon into MC2)
- Might&Magic 4-5 (in a sense)
- Ishar 1-3
- Realms of Arkania 1-3
- Wizardry 6-7-8 as mentioned
- etc etc

Transferring adds a lot to the fun factor, when done right...

-- Z.

 

[Psilon]

They weren't true RPGs, but Quest for Glory let you import previous games' characters. In fact, the only way to play a Paladin in 4 or 5 was to import one.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Rosh is pretty much correct in that you can't really transfer characters in an open ended CRPG without having that transfer totally effect how the game goes. The use of the Geneforge itself would be a major undertaking on how it affected the world itself, not to mention balancing it for Geneforge user vs Non-Geneforge user.

Most of the games that do transfer characters are fairly linear and have a very set ending. Set endings make that possible.

 

[Peacedog]

Yeah, it was popular for golden age CRPGs to have character transfer; people might not remember that you could actually bring characters from other games into the Bard's Tale's (Ultimas, Phantasie, Wizardries, some others). That actually often produced some bizzare results (my favorite was using the stuff we got from one of the odd Ultima IV discs. . .possibly the dungeon disc).

Also, WIzardries 2 & 3 had character transfer. 3 actually did something interesting; the transferred in characters were "reborn" as essentially descendants of the characters you brought in. The more powerful and accomplished the original party, the better these new characters were (high level characters that killed Werdna and fixed the problem in Wiz 2 basically started with all 18 abilities and I think enhanced hps).

Most of the games that do transfer characters are fairly linear and have a very set ending. Set endings make that possible.

I think there is more to it than this. Some game systems, in particular I think those that favor many improvements (though they usually tend to be more incrimental), don't lend themselves to traditional character transfer. I've always wanted to see someone try something similar to what you talked about above, though.

I usually get a laugh when people get upset about not being able to transfer characters.

 

[Psilon]

Well, of course you need to transfer characters from BG2 to Jefferson. After coming up with some convoluted reason for why your +5 (Light)Saber of Vorpal Disintegration and its fancy user-chosen hilt is possessed by your character alone and can never be remade, you'd look pretty stupid trying to explain "in character" how your piece of phat lewt is now in the hands of the new PC.

No, wait, never mind. The same people that come up with those stories are the ones who think Aribeth is the perfect woman, [Imoen/Valygar/Minsc/Jan] needed a fan-made romance track verging on the pornographic, Grand Theft Auto III has role-playing because you can choose an appearance and car, and Dungeon Siege had a perfect stats system.

Unless the game's plot explicitly recognizes that you're playing the same bunch from an earlier game--and the timeline and rule system support it--character import shouldn't even be considered.

Wizardry 8? Yes. The game even adds a new intro. Quest for Glory? Yup. Each one starts about 48 hours after the previous game ends, and you're assuredly the same character. Baldur's Gate? Again, you're the same character, and the sequel picks up about a week after BG1 ends.

Diablo II begins a few weeks after the original ended, and you're explicitly not the hero of Tristram. Fallout 2 should have imported characters as senile octogenarians. Since no one wants to play a character with a tag skill of Denture Repair for more than about 30 minutes, they justifiably disallowed imports.

 

[Walks with the Snails]

Hmm, I think I'd worry about someone who really wanted an Imoen romance.

 

[Zetor]

Know fear.

-- Z.

 

[Astromarine]

Sweet Lord Jesus, my soul is ready for Armageddon. BRING IT!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Those people need to get girlfriends.

 

[Spazmo]

Imoen's sexuality: Hetro, Homo or Bi?

Good God, no!

 

[Jed]

Is this where slash fiction comes from? First Kirk and Spock, now this...

 

[Psilon]

Star Trek slash? Good God, no!

Well, I swallowed my disgust long enough to check out some of the dialog in a text editor and the original stuff in Infinity Explorer. Regardless of that eight-page debate held by the "bunch of asshats,"* the style is obviously not the same as the official BioWare stuff. Even ignoring the, ahem, "intimate detail" still makes it obvious that this guy really prefers action to words. Practically every other string I looked at was some parenthesized bit of narration.

The one bit that was definitely consistent with the source material is the concept of evil deeds leading to inevitable death. Several dialog tracks seem to lead to an unavoidable, immediately fatal stab wound. Admittedly, they're the ones that are pretty low even for a standard BG2 Chaotic Evil good-deeds-for-hire type, but I can only imagine how irritating it would be to mis-click and need to redo a tough battle.

Verdict: Why not post this shit on Usenet or make a nice big HTML file instead? Sure, no one has to download it, but you can get your softcore porno out to a much wider audience on the newsgroups.

Anyone want to mock the eight-page debate for us?
---
* Not that I'm disagreeing with the characterization. I just think Spazmo had a great turn of phrase there.

 

[Rosh]

Incest romances. Yup, typical Baldur's Garbage kids.

Then we also have to look at how fucked up BioWare is to begin with and how they ignore the setting. Well, Forgotten Realms also extensively borrows from other settings.

Namely, the Circle of Eight in the Greyhawk setting: Mordenkainen, Bigby, Tenser, Leomund, Rary, Otto, Drawmij, and Nystul.

Recognize where some spells came from? They also just magically transfer to the FR setting, which the young kids at BioWare have no clue about the origin of those spells and pretty much just used them from the DM/PM like clueless idiots.

 

[Spazmo]

Actually, the idea is that one fine day, Bigby had a trip to Faerun, where he happily began spreading spells that originated on Oerth. In fact, his shenanigans got so bothersome that he attracted the ire of Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun, Lord Mage of Waterdeep (for the laymen out there, that's not a good thing), who developed a spell to counteract the various Bigby's hand/fist spells and booted the foreign archmage out of Realmspace. On top of that, a number of other Circle members have popped up on Faerun at one time or another.

In my, games, though, I declare all PHB spells to be common in all settings. If we're playing in FR or any other non-Greyhawk setting, I just take the name off the spell before giving it to my PCs.