Interview Planescape: Torment interview at RPG Watch

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Black Isle Studios; Chris Avellone; Planescape: Torment

<a href=http://www.rpgwatch.com>RPG Watch</a> has posted an excellent "Planescape: Torment" <a href=http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/article?articleid=55&ref=0&id=208>interview</a> with Chris Avellone and Colin McComb:
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<blockquote><b>Planescape: Torment was never developed to be a huge hit. How much involvement or interference was there from the suits of the company?</b>
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<b>Chris Avellone</b>: As far as being a huge hit, I think everyone wanted Torment to sell very well (it made a profit, but not a huge one, and certainly not anywhere near Baldur's Gate numbers).
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Still, there were a number of elements that I think hurt it in the long run:
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- Not an accessible setting. It's not a fantasy world that is comfortable for players to settle into, and we did not take pains to make it comfortable (no dwarves, elves, or halflings, as one minor example).
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- Story-heavy in the wrong ways. It has a slow start, and while the momentum does pick up in the Hive, there's a lot of reading, and people don't buy games to read, they buy games to play them.
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- Marketing. The box of the product reinforces #1 above - it says, "hey, we're strange," rather than promoting it as a role-playing game using the Baldur's Gate engine, which probably would have made it a more interesting target to the game community.
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As far as interference-from-above goes, we probably could have used more than we had - like Fallout, Torment was sort of under the radar for a while, and the producer role changed several times over the course of the project. Brian Fargo was mostly hands off, except to complement us on the writing, and give me a pretty stern lecture (deservedly) about the localization costs for the game. Feargus was also concerned about how much it slipped over the course of the development cycle, and those weren't fun discussions.
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<b>Colin McComb</b>: As far as I know, a surprisingly small amount compared to the amount of money they spent on us. We had to do a few dog-and-pony shows for game magazines, a couple of presentations for the investors, but from my perspective, the executives didn't get too involved with our development cycle, focused as they were on the big money titles like Fallout 2, Stonekeep 2, and the games on the other side of the building. Chris might have a different story, since he was a step higher on the ladder, and he may simply have performed the valuable service of protecting all his designers from any spatters from above. I certainly never felt that we were being jogged or pushed in any one particular direction especially. </blockquote>Part 1 comes with TWO ORIGINAL DESIGN DOCUMENTS, so don't miss them. A must read for PST enthusiasts!
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[Jasede]

Do it again, Chris.... please? I'll send you the money I saved! Do it again, Chris...

Ravel-Final made me cry. So much wasted. So much wasted talent...

Maybe there is still hope, that NWN 2 addon... and yet-

 

[Calis]

Chris Avellone and Colin McComb:

Fixed

 

[MF]

- Story-heavy in the wrong ways. It has a slow start, and while the momentum does pick up in the Hive, there's a lot of reading, and people don't buy games to read, they buy games to play them.

Saying "there's a lot of reading" may sound dumb, but I fully agree with this statement. I played Planescape once, and it was only interesting through the combination of decent art and decent writing. The combination of these two made for an interesting interactive story, but either one of them wasn't good enough to replace a book or movie. I never replayed it like I did Fallout, because there wasn't enough game there. It was also hardly replayable. You had the old good path and evil path, but I saw both by having only two key savegame points, one of which resulted in exactly the same path.

The monestary is also quite slow. It's the dialogue and exposition-equivalent of the Temple of Trials. Lots of reading is good, but just like in novel-writing, all exposition and no action makes for a boring read. As for Planescape's story. If I want a bunch of pathos, amnesia and emo crap, I'll read A Tale of Two Cities. I doubt it would hold up well if it was novellized.

 

[z3r'0']

One thing is sure. Torment is a rare and unique experience. Many times did I wonder... How Chris and co. succeeded in crafting such and why we may never see its like again.

I think it was a product of its time, when the right ideas and the right people got together and created something more than the sum of its parts.


Cool, interview btw.

 

[Hory]

Those design docs are impressive.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

There is one interesting thing about design documents: "morale" variables, tied to joinable NPCs. Looks like influence system is older than KotOR 2.

 

[Nedrah]

I played Planescape once, and it was only interesting through the combination of decent art and decent writing. The combination of these two made for an interesting interactive story, but either one of them wasn't good enough to replace a book or movie. I never replayed it like I did Fallout, because there wasn't enough game there.

[...]more than the sum of its parts.

'nuff said

 

[MF]

I played Planescape once, and it was only interesting through the combination of decent art and decent writing. The combination of these two made for an interesting interactive story, but either one of them wasn't good enough to replace a book or movie. I never replayed it like I did Fallout, because there wasn't enough game there.

[...]more than the sum of its parts.

'nuff said

Not really. What I meant was that the sum of its parts make it whole. Nothing more, nothing less. It's a good game, but it's not a classic for me like Fallout. I did like it more than Fallout 2 though, if that counts for anything. The problem for me is that it is a game with too little game-play.For example, Betrayal at Krondor is just as bad in the story-railroading and focusing department, but it has much more game-play elements in terms of discovery, interesting explorations and combat. There, it makes sense to have that much story and reading, because it's complementing a game. With Planescape, the 'game' is complementing a story, and not doing a great job. It would probably have been better as a point-and-click adventure.

 

[Gwendo]

I'm humbled by the amount of work required to make a single character in that game. Those design docs are impressive.

 

[Vault Dweller]

There is one interesting thing about design documents: "morale" variables, tied to joinable NPCs. Looks like influence system is older than KotOR 2.

It is. There were 4-5 different states for Morte and Dakkon, affecting different things including Dakkon's blade, which reflected the mental state of the wielder.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Wow! There is also a cheat option in conversation with Ravel: “Ravel, I don’t have time to banter with you – I have to get to Curst. So please, set the right info flags and then let’s break into the battle royale, okay? C’mon, chop-chop.”.

 

[fastpunk]

Wow, look at the amount of info in those docs, these guys are very thorough in their work. What's there to be said about PS:T, it's a masterpiece!

It was interesting reading about other game based on Planescape. It makes me feel sad that there were so few games based on this fascinating campaign setting. Colin McComb's project sounded pretty interesting, too bad it never managed to see the light...

 

[Hory]

Have you seen the Torment Vision Statement (1997)? It's not linked to in the article.
For whom was it written? There's quite an amount of swearing in it.

 

[VonVentrue]

With Planescape, the 'game' is complementing a story, and not doing a great job. It would probably have been better as a point-and-click adventure.

Which pretty much summarizes my feelings regarding this game. Nevertheless, playing P:T felt completely unique, it was unlike any other role-playing experience I had ever had. Despite its drawbacks, it's a masterpiece. Period.
In addition, the game put a huge emphasis on the story instead of shooting/hacking/slashing, contrary to all these "modern/next gen" pathetic excuses for cRPGs being released these days...

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Have you seen the Torment Vision Statement (1997)?

It's hilarious!

 

[frantic defenestration]

It is. There were 4-5 different states for Morte and Dakkon, affecting different things including Dakkon's blade, which reflected the mental state of the wielder.

Every companion had a morale stat. It just had very little effect on anything except what you mentioned and some small dialog changes with Annah and FfG, unfortunately stat stupidly restarted after resting or teleporting (which you always do after gaining access to Lower Ward, it didn't restarted if you'd used Modron cube though)
Encouraging a dubious playthrough with happy insomniacs.

It's a good game, but it's not a classic for me like Fallout.

Different strokes for different folks, but for me it's quite the opposite. Fallout is just a good game, while Torment is without a doubt the best. Of course it may have something to do with me liking reading books, but it wouldn't be cool if it were just a book. It has different aesthetic, you make a lot of choices during the game, and they are mostly 'cosmetic' in a Fallout sense, but for me they are way more interesting and engaging than that silly shit in Fallout. In Torment choices greatly affect your(as player) perception of characters, your past or what the heck is going on in present, that's why your first playthrough is the most important one and that's why it's such a shame we didn't see any game with similar premise of gameplay. There's Arcanum for Fallout fans, but there is none for Torment fans. You can play IntFiction or some Adventure games but they don't offer same kind gameplay like in Torment.

 

[cardtrick]

I was not especially thrilled with the way combat felt in the Infinity Engine, but I write this off to my predilection for the immediate rush of first-person shooters.

Weird. Although I guess it's proof that RTwP satisfies absolutely no one.

NWN2: Mast of the Betrayer

Heh . . . a bold name.

Man, I just love PS:T. When McComb was listing the areas he worked on, my first reaction was: wow, those were incredible areas. This guy must be totally badass! And then I realized that I would feel the same way about pretty much any area or character in Torment. What a great game.

EDIT: The Vision Statement is brilliant. I think I'm going to read the whole thing . . .

It's going to be unique, and it's going to make our competitors cry.

 

[Starwars]

And then I realized that I would feel the same way about pretty much any area or character in Torment.

Really? Hm, I finished my replay of the game yesterday and I think the game really sinks after you leave Ravel's Maze, and doesn't really become great again until The Fortress of Regrets (which I still find mildly annoying). The encounter with The Transcended One is great though.

In short, everything about Sigil rules. *Most* of the other stuff is kinda meh in my opinion. But the Sigil parts are just so wonderfully good that I can't help but love the game.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

Have you seen the Torment Vision Statement (1997)? It's not linked to in the article.
For whom was it written? There's quite an amount of swearing in it.

Where the hell did half this stuff go?

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Have you seen the Torment Vision Statement (1997)? It's not linked to in the article.
For whom was it written? There's quite an amount of swearing in it.

Where the hell did half this stuff go?

Good question.

Once the player learns the truth, he can:

(“Bad” Ending) Walk away and don’t look back. The player does not have to become mortal again if he doesn‟t want to (immortality, even with amnesia, has its obvious benefits). The tone of this ending will leave something to be desired, but the player may choose it if they wish. If the player chooses this ending, the game basically begins again where it started, with the player awakening in the Mortuary without his memory and a (saddened) Morte greeting him back to life again.

(“Not Quite so Good” Ending) Perform “Last Rites,” damning yourself but saving all of existence by becoming mortal and letting death take its natural course. If the player can convince his mortality to return to him (his mortality has no desire to return to him – it doesn‟t like the player and enjoys its autonomy), the player discovers why his mortality was separated from him in the first place…to avoid the penance for a lifetime of evil.

(Best Ending) This is a game. I want to have my cake and eat it, too. The player learns why his mortality was separated from him, but rather than becoming mortal, he turns on it, killing it/trapping it and preventing it from interfering with his life anymore (i.e., killing him). He then wanders the planes as a happy immortal.

OK, "best ending" is just stupid and uninspiring, but I like the bad one. Why did they cut it?

 

[Gromnir]

"Chris Avellone: As far as being a huge hit, I think everyone wanted Torment to sell very well (it made a profit, but not a huge one, and certainly not anywhere near Baldur's Gate numbers). "

for chrissakes...

chrisA been spending too much time 'round fergie. ps:t were an unmitigated Failure. took years to get barely into black, and by that time it were selling at vast reduced price. a publisher cannot make games if all they see is slim profit after multiple years... specially if, like interplay, they gots stockholders. pervasive quarterly report culture makes chrisA notions o' profit naive to point o' being asinine.

"we took all our development money and instead put it into a mutual fund. see, we made a profit. congratulate us on our success."

doesn't work that way... and interplay probably would seen better/faster results with the mutual fund route.

why is it so damned hard for folks to admit that ps:t were a financial failure? Gromnir has met maybe 2-3 interplay/black isle/obsidian folks who had the stones to admit that ps:t were a failure and that fo were hardly the kinda success that keeps developers in business. am not sure if its ego or the belief that perception = reality that prevents these folks from being honest.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Texas Red]

Note: The areas which were listed as done by somebody other than Avellone I did not like. Curst, artistically, was great but it could have used side quests, and the existing ones were not that great. The Alley of Dangearus Angels was just... bleh!

Chris Avellone wins. His work on KotOR 2 is also very good. Im a big fan of the characters.

I think the Codex should have a patron deity and I propose Avellone as our god. All hail Chris!

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

I think the Codex should have a patron deity and I propose Avellone as our god. All hail Chris!

 

[Gromnir]

am thinking that it would be appropriate that the God of this place were amused with and slightly repulsed by his worshipers.

HA! Good Fun!