Preview ToEE pre-gander at UGO

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Temple of Elemental Evil; Troika Games

<a href="http://www.ugo.com/">UGO</a> has done up a <a href="http://www.ugo.com/channels/games/features/dnd_templeofelementalevil/preview.asp">preview</a> of <a href="http://www.troikagames.com">Troika</a>'s soon-to-be-released <a href="http://www.greyhawkgame.com">Temple of Elemental Evil</a>. Here's a clip of the love:
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<blockquote>And then I played it and my apprehension all but vanished. How could this be? How could an inexperienced halfling such as myself embrace a game so heavily steeped in D&D rules? Therein lies the brilliance of ToEE. The game is designed not only for those who have memorized each spell, race, attack and location from the Greyhawk universe (the D&D module on which ToEE is based), but also for those who know nothing, as well. For example, party formation, which is usually a daunting mash of percentages, skill modifiers and race benefits, is streamlined in ToEE. Already created are more than a dozen characters that you can choose to join your party from the start. Their descriptions might be as basic as Fighter, Mage or Ranger, but that's really all I need. On the other hand, if you're into the minutia of creating a party from scratch, you'll have that option as well. This process is so in-depth, it could take you hours rolling for the right stats and skills on your preferred group. Thankfully, all this was optional, so I was able to hop into the game within minutes, pre-fab group in tow.</blockquote>
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For some odd reason, this thing left me less interested than I was before I read it. Most likely, I'd say it's because I hate hearing things about streamlining and simplification for the proles out there. Makes me nervous.
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Spotted this at <A href="http://www.homelanfed.com">HomeLAN Fed</a>.

 

[EEVIAC]

I didn't get that from reading the preview at all. He was suggesting that if a person wanted to treat the game as a hack-and-slash adventure, install and play within 15 minutes, they could - yet the curious adventurer/grognard would still have the option of meticulous tweaking each character of the party, and bearing witness to every game roll. I don't see what the problem is.

I'm as wary of the dumbification of games as anyone, but I'd be surprised if this was the case with ToEE.

 

[Dan]

Well, he did say it will take hours to roll the stats. I like it when it takes hours to create the charecter, not press a button a couple of hundred times.

The process of charecter creation shouldn't be all about re-rolling, but rather on deciding what are the optimal choices you can make for the kind of charecter you would like to play.

 

[Astromarine]

I thikn the problem is that he's one of the "load up and play" dudes saying that the game plays great. Which is already very cool!

BUT since he's NOT a grognard, the fact that it *seems* to him that all the options and minutiae are still there and will be fun for the grognards doesn't mean it will be so. For that, we would need a grognard to preview the game as well and say that he enjoyed it as much as the Insta-Grat guy did.

 

[EEVIAC]

BUT since he's NOT a grognard, the fact that it *seems* to him that all the options and minutiae are still there and will be fun for the grognards doesn't mean it will be so. For that, we would need a grognard to preview the game as well and say that he enjoyed it as much as the Insta-Grat guy did.

I now see the problem and stand corrected. My wide-eyed-gamer side momentarily displaced my (constantly growing) cynical-gamer. Then again I think that good games (and good art for that matter) have the potential to turn Insta-Grat's into grognards. Pirates! interested me in 16th century outlaws (and outlaws in general probably, which in turn led me to Burroughs and Genet,) Fallout re-piqued my boy-hood fear/wonder with Nuclear War and drew me reading more about Los Alamos, Oppenheimer, Feynman, Teller, etc. The list goes on.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

I didn't get that from reading the preview at all. He was suggesting that if a person wanted to treat the game as a hack-and-slash adventure, install and play within 15 minutes, they could - yet the curious adventurer/grognard would still have the option of meticulous tweaking each character of the party, and bearing witness to every game roll. I don't see what the problem is.

I'm as wary of the dumbification of games as anyone, but I'd be surprised if this was the case with ToEE.

Here's why, and it's in the portion I quoted:

• The game is designed not only for those who have memorized each spell, race, attack and location from the Greyhawk universe (the D&D module on which ToEE is based), but also for those who know nothing, as well.

Now, this guy has already admitted he knows nothing about D&D, so how would be know exactly if the extra details aren't dumbed down as well?

• But lest you think that ToEE is a Fischer Price-style RPG, hear me out. This is one of the most deep, complex and loyal-to-D&D RPG games to come out since Baldur's Gate

This doesn't help matters, either.

I'm not saying the game will be bad, but I am saying that after reading this preview, it failed in it's intent to make me want the game more.

 

[Voss]

On some level it sounds like it has a good interface, which is cheering.
But the previewer mentioning he's an idiot 20-odd times over the course of the preview is worrying. He could just be wrong.

 

[Volourn]

I'd have already pre-ordered the game if my EB actually had heard of it. Maybe they have this week. :shock:

 

[Seven]

So, while you might see "Miss" on the screen when you go to swing at a giant frog, the menu will read "Miss" and will feature a hyperlink with opens another window consisting of all the reasons why you missed (i.e. -2 to hit for 2d15 or some such nonsense). To me, this is gibberish, but to someone who cares about such details, ToEE piles them high.

He does mention that the roles and other "stuff" is there for those who want to see it, but I like most want to know how he knows about this other stuff if he's DnD illiterate?

 

[Whipporowill]

Well... the guy DID like Arcanum according to the preview, he's just not a fan of D&D. Sheesh, cut the guy a break willya?

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

As long as the simplification is optional I have no problem with it. I personally like to see as much detail on to hit rolls and such as possible. I like to take a *long* time creating characters, but I don't care if there are pre-fab ones for people who don't. Just don't force the simplification on the player (moron indicators) and keep the complexity available to those who want it and I'm happy. If the abilty to play it simply exists and doesn't compromise the complexity for those who want it then that means more people play it, more sales and then eventually Troika takes over the world.

 

[Astromarine]

I don't think we've been harsh on the guy himself... It's just that the preview fails to quell the fears that linger in the back of our minds that maybe, just *maybe*, the game won't really be all we're hoping in terms of love for the anal-retentive

 

[Whipporowill]

You mean a bad case of Lionheart-itis?

 

[Astromarine]

shut up about Lionheart. I arrived home today to find out that the gaming store I usually buy in thoughtfully sent me the game I asked them for a month and a half ago, which means they forgot I cancelled the order when the game came out. Now I'll have to try and send it back or end up paying for it. :/

 

[Crazy Tuvok]

I don't think we've been harsh on the guy himself... It's just that the preview fails to quell the fears that linger in the back of our minds that maybe, just *maybe*, the game won't really be all we're hoping in terms of love for the anal-retentive

oh I didn't think you were being harsh on the guy, and I wouldn't care if we had been. Frankly he deserves some bitch-slapping for being gamer who doesn't want to read the manual and who regards the DnD source books as "complex"
Oh and his misuse of the word geek. Does no one anymore know of the hierarchy?

Dork - engage in one or two "geeky" activities that are not overly taxing - i.e if you play vids but do nothing else geeky you are a dork; if you religiously watched "Sliders" but otherwise no other geek stuuf - you are a dork.

Nerd - you are a nerd if you engage in two or three such activities - gaming and sci-fi, e.g. with an attitude. You not only watched Sliders and play vids, but you can from memory recount episode titles and plot summaries for every ep of Sliders in chronological order - you my friend are a nerd.

Geek - top of the heap; by definition you must love programming, realize the beauty of math, have serious gaming experience (including being able to name your favorite Amiga and Apple II games), and disturbingly detailed knowledge of at least one obscure sci-fi movie or series and/or comic book.

 

[Astromarine]

That's only for Geekus Yankus I dug my Amiga completely but the Apple didn't fly in Portugal. But Shsdow of the Beast, Pirates! and Battle Squadron. And Babylon 5/Legend of the Five Rings. What do I get?

 

[Voss]

Woohoo!
Saved from geekdom because I realize that this math crap is a horrible, ugly mistake!
And never had an Amiga.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

And never had an Amiga.

You missed out.

 

[EEVIAC]

Geek - top of the heap; by definition you must love programming, realize the beauty of math, have serious gaming experience (including being able to name your favorite Amiga and Apple II games), and disturbingly detailed knowledge of at least one obscure sci-fi movie or series and/or comic book.

I'm useless at programming and math, although I've read lots of books on Turing, Dirac, and Feynman. I don't really have an extensive knowledge on any particular sci-fi series but I watched Blake's 7 and I can name a great majority of the actors (doctors and companions) from Doctor Who (partial credit?) I think I can gain points by being able to lovingly retell game experiences back from the Texas Instruments TI994A (Parsec, Microsurgeon, Alpiner, Daring Damon,) the fact that I would record Pirates! sessions on videotape and kept my own logs of my adventures, and I would draw/design robots that had that little extra something to kick Voltron's arse once and for all.

By the way, detailed information of all rolls is confirmed.

 

[Spazmo]

I think experience in Pen and Paper gaming also is an important step on the climb towards geekdom.

 

[Seven]

I would draw/design robots that had that little extra something to kick Voltron's arse once and for all.

This alone qualifies you as King-geek. We must all bow down and worship you, oh wait, I'm not a geek by any stretch (and I don't have geek denial :wink: ).

 

[chiefnewo]

For some odd reason, this thing left me less interested than I was before I read it. Most likely, I'd say it's because I hate hearing things about streamlining and simplification for the proles out there. Makes me nervous.

Probably because the last time we were told an RPG was going to be "streamlined" we ended up with Dungeon Siege.

 

[Seven]

For some odd reason, this thing left me less interested than I was before I read it. Most likely, I'd say it's because I hate hearing things about streamlining and simplification for the proles out there. Makes me nervous.

Probably because the last time we were told an RPG was going to be "streamlined" we ended up with Dungeon Siege.

DS isn't an RPG, it's the sims meets diablo except without the naked patch. I'll never understand how character progression/modification alone qualifies something as an RPG.

 

[Elwro]

Does studying maths, having some programming skill and, what's most important, loving Andre Norton's Witch World as a child qualify me as somebody of above average dorkility or geekness?

 

[Jarinor]

There are other qualifications for geekdom - intimate knowledge of Monty Python, participation in certain card games, unholy amounts of knowledge about computers et hoc genus omne...

I would classify myself as semi-geek - I like that stuff, but it doesn't rule my life. Mainly because my life is ruled by trying to keep track of what week in which month it is. Apparently I only have about a month of uni left, but I'd swear that it's near the beginning of the semester and that I've still got plenty of time...