Review ActionTrip reviews ToEE

[Spazmo]

Tags: Temple of Elemental Evil

<a href=http://www.actiontrip.com>ActionTrip</a> have reviewed their <a href=http://www.actiontrip.com/reviews/thetempleofelementalevil.phtml>review</a> of <a href=http://www.troikagames.com>Troika</a>'s <a href=http://www.greyhawkgame.com>Temple of Elemental Evil</a>. They grade it a <b>79%</b>, mentioning roughly the same things as all the other reviews which at least shows that ToEE is consistent.
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<blockquote>The sheer complexity of the game clearly guarantees some serious RPG fun. But, the problem is that there's a great deal of gamers out there that never bothered to research the intricate 3.5 AD&D rules. The fact is that during the game, newcomers will surely find themselves tangled up in a sea of RPG details. Such players might have a hard time deciding what feats and skills should be improved. Leveling each character has a great influence on how your team handles itself during combat. Most of the characters won't survive through a single battle unless they work on enhancing certain abilities or feats. To cut a long story short, the game becomes increasingly difficult for anyone who doesn't have experience with leveling specific character classes during gameplay. This drawback could've easily been circumvented if the developers took the time to fit in an optional predefined character leveling system that might help gamers get through this. A number of RPG's have already used such methods (NWN, Icewind Dale). Players who wasted their hard-earned experience points on pointless skills or feats will have a hard time keeping some of the party members alive as they progress through the levels. For that reason, inexperienced players are strongly advised to go through the game's manual, which features accurate descriptions of all characters and guidelines to the 3.5 AD&D rules. Just so you know the manual is also downloadable at the official web site of Wizards of the Coast - the file is in PDF format).</blockquote>
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I think the most important thing ToEE lacks is cheerleaders. "Gimme an R! Gimme a T! Gimme a F! Gimme a M! <b>RTFM!</b>"

 

[Vault Dweller]

To cut a long story short, the game becomes increasingly difficult for anyone who doesn't have experience with leveling specific character classes during gameplay

It becomes increasingly difficult for morons who lack common sense. A friend of mine bought ToEE for his 12 yo son following my advice :twisted:, the little guy's never played a DnD game before and he's enjoying the game tremendously. I expected him to ask me for help and advices, but he looked in the manual for 20 minutes and started playing. He made a mistake making a party, got his ass kicked, changed a party and that was it. I'm having a very hard time to imagine a person who can't play ToEE because he/she isn't a DnD expert.

This drawback could've easily been circumvented if the developers took the time to fit in an optional predefined character leveling system that might help gamers get through this. A number of RPG's have already used such methods

Not this NWN bullshit again...

For that reason, inexperienced players are strongly advised to go through the game's manual

Inexperienced players are always advised to go through the manual. If they don't have to, then the game has been dumbed down to meet the lowest intelligence level and aint worth shit!

 

[Chadeo]

I fail to see why some kind of auto leveler option is seen as a bad thing.

While I think it is silly for a reviewer to assume his audience is stupid, and thus lower the rating they give the game, I also think it is a valid observation.

We can debate all we want about how easy or hard ToEE is to play, but that does not change the fact that not having to think about leveling would make it easier. While I feel it would also remove a lot of the fun. To each their own though, and as long as it is just an option, I have no issue with it.

 

[Volourn]

Man. The game is NOT that hard.

 

[EEVIAC]

I fail to see why some kind of auto leveler option is seen as a bad thing.

I've asked the question before and I'll ask it again : "Why is it that modern gamers are so scared of in-game failure?" Are their egos that weak that if they ever get beaten they can't face a game ever again?

The way I see it, they're asking for an in-game method of automatic near maximization/optimization for PC's (a trainer, in other words.) I don't understand why. Maybe its just me, but a lot of the fun of RPG's is derived from characters being in situations where they're outclassed, either through numbers of enemies, or lack of skills, the latter of which I've usually contributed to by choosing skills or traits that define my character instead of the skills that are the most use.

I played D2 for a day on Nightmare and got the shock of my life, consistently being killed by seemingly benign beasts. I left the game for a few days and chanced upon a new strategy to develop my character in a certain way that could beat Nightmare - and it worked (until I got to Hell.) It was immensely enjoyable, the game presented me with a challenge and I overcame it. If I'd been shown from the start what the most usefull skills were, what fun would I (or anyone else) have been able to derive from the game?

I think any option that increases interactivity is more than welcome. On the other hand, any option that increases automation should be taken outside and shot.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Leveling up and picking skills and feats are an important part of any rpg. I see no more reason to bypass it then to bypass combat with autoplay: it's pointless and defies the whole idea. It's like LH's moron indicators that serve no purpose. Everybody who is able to install a game would be able to make a character and level up. Any requests for auto leveling up are due to mental lazyness and/or stupidity. Both shouldn't be tolerated and influence games' ratings. It's like asking for an option to have a short summary instead of all that text in PS:T - "bla-bla-bla, yada-yada...you can't remember shit".

Edit:

On the other hand, any option that increases automation should be taken outside and shot.

With extreme prejudice :!:

 

[Greenskin13]

I kind of enjoy failing in games, which is why SLASH'EM is one of my favorite RPGs. If anyone thinks ToEE is too dificult, they may cry after a few minutes of most any Roguelike. Having to make wise decisions and think about your actions I believe is a whole lot more fun than clicking a button to give you a prepackaged character. I've always prefered customization over predifined. Being able to make more decisions about one's input in a game can never be a good thing.

Still, I'm not on an anti-premade character warpath. They could include it or not, and it wouldn't sway me much. What I really hate is this new trend where having to read a manual suddenly gives a game negative marks. That's backwards thinking. The potential for computer games is growing, and we can do things that were not possible just a few years ago in terms of both gameplay and graphics. So why are we dumbing these games down so that it will be idiotproof?

Reading the manual will not kill you, people. I swear.

 

[JanC]

Reading the manual will not kill you, people. I swear.

Think of us poor English people, sir!
In the UK we get vastly condensed manuals to fit in a CD case, and the original manual (if at all) in PDF!
While it is nice to be able to stack my game collection properly, I can envision it being a problem with TOEE. Luckily I pretty much know the D&D rules off by heart.

It is a fact that the easier a game is to get to grips with, the more it will sell compared to others of its type. I think it is better to do this by a good interface than dumbing down gameplay.

 

[Flarnet]

What do you mean? Does the euro version lack the spiral bound manual?

What makes Atari think that I would ever dream of paying the same for a lot less?

 

[ecliptic]

It's so weird that people are bashing ToEE for ... IMPLEMENTING the system it claims to be using. Arrrgh. Auto leveling system? Why even play an rpg at that point? Pick up an action game, you'll get more out of it.

 

[Rayt]

When is RPGCodex going to post their review of this game? I'd be interested to see what Saint P has to say about this game.

 

[JanC]

What do you mean? Does the euro version lack the spiral bound manual?

What makes Atari think that I would ever dream of paying the same for a lot less?

Have you noticed that we get small DVD size boxes nowadays? No room for a US-style big manual. We get shrunk-down booklets

 

[dipdipdip]

Here's a taste snatched from the Atari forums::

........I haven't had a single CTD yet with this game.

As far as bugs go, the only ones I've seen are mainly pathfinding quirks. Then again, I'm not a big spell user and I don't have a paladin in my party.

Then again, most of my complaints would center around design decisions, like not being able to end combat or leave through a door when the hostile monsters aren't even coming after you. If you're out of Line of Sight, and they're not following, I'm not sure why you shouldn't be able to end the combat. You're not interested in attacking, they're not interested in attacking, so.. Why not?

However, I am enjoying ToEE much more than I was after my first few hours of play time.

 

[Spazmo]

When is RPGCodex going to post their review of this game? I'd be interested to see what Saint P has to say about this game.

Actually, I'm doing the ToEE review. It'll be done as soon as I finish the game and can manage to crank out a few thousand words that satisfy Saint's standards.

 

[Chadeo]

You guys are missing my point.

I am not debating the merits of the fun factor of an auto leveler. I am just saying that an option is never a bad thing; unless that option takes so much time to add that other more important things do not get done (which is probably the issue in this case).

It is like you are saying that you love to play in iron man mode, and think the fact that there is a “normal” mode for people to play just pisses you off. I mean come on, anyone who can not play the game in iron man mode is a moron and should not be playing this game in the first place. Right?

Some features would be downright silly (like dialog summaries) while others (like an auto leveler) are not difficult to put in place, and increase the number of people the game will appeal to, while not detracting from your own game experience in any way. I am all for any feature that does not change my game play in any way yet increases sales of the game by large amounts. More sales will bring in more money, which means more chances of more games. A very good scenario for all involved.

I just think you all sound rather silly flying off the handle at the suggestion that an auto leveler would make the game more approachable. I suppose you think the in game tutorial is a huge waste and panders to the unwashed, illiterate, masses as well.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

The problem is that automation leads to the masses wanting nothing but automation, thus making companies pursue that path of less effort and less thinking.

 

[axel]

You guys are missing my point.

I am not debating the merits of the fun factor of an auto leveler. I am just saying that an option is never a bad thing; unless that option takes so much time to add that other more important things do not get done (which is probably the issue in this case).

Well the problem is that, having an auto leveler is exactly the same as an aimbot in a fps (and I"m speaking specifically of SP no MP).

The whole point is to build a character, so why are you playing if you want that done for you? It's not an option that panders to a different player, it's just pandering to people who are confused about what genres they like.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The problem with an autoleveller in ToEE is that the game is just generally complex. It pretty much requires the player to manually pick and choose which feats and skills he or she might want to raise. NWN could get away with an autoleveller because nearly everything was based on smacking something to death, allowed resting everywhere, and so on. The overall design of NWN makes the game horrendously easy compared to ToEE.

 

[Volourn]

Yeah... because TOEE was so hard... not...

This doens't mean there was no challenge in TOEE; 'cause there is; but it surely isn't even near one of the ahrdest games I've played...

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Yeah... because TOEE was so hard... not...

This doens't mean there was no challenge in TOEE; 'cause there is; but it surely isn't even near one of the ahrdest games I've played...

The only time I died in NWN was when I was a 13th level druid fighting that white dragon in Chapter 3 and that was because I hit the wrong function key. As far as I know, it's the only D&D game that's had the auto-leveller. Well, I guess PoR2 did as well... heh

 

[Voss]

An auto-leveler wouldn't work that well in TOEE anyway.

Too much to choose from, and too many ways to build a character. It would suck if you were building a bow specialist fighter, and decided to auto-level, and it picked up power attack and cleave for you... And for a skill heavy character... No. Much better just to think for yourself.

Once again, it comes down to the simple maxim: cut out the stupid people and let them fend for themselves. Don't cater to them- it just encourages them. And after all, they'll probably buy it anyway, so there isn't any need to cater to them.