Review Edbis RPG mixes around with ToEE

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: Temple of Elemental Evil

<A href="http://www.edbis.com">Edbis RPG</a> has started off with <A href="http://www.edbis.com/content/parser.php?file=/reviews/ttoee_greyhawk.php">their review</a> of <A href="http://www.greyhawkgame.com">Temple of Elemental Evil</a>, scoring it at <b>76%</b>. Here's the snippage:
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<blockquote>The best asset of this game is its combat and how it represents the Dungeons and Dragons 3.5e rules. It is a turn based game which gives the player a load of options such as taking a 5 foot step, doing a trip attack, casting defensively, and so forth and so on that it is almost mind boggling. Using smart tactics are often quite necessary, especially in the harder combats at low levels. Being used to the Infinity Engine games and Neverwinter Nights, I was taken back by the difficulty of an encounter of a bunch of raiders my characters had just because I didn't have my wizard memorize the right spell, Sleep in this case. Most would complain that turn based combat goes to slowly, but in Temple of Elemental Evil NPCs that move in between PCs will go at the same time or nearly so which speeds up combat considerably.</blockquote>
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Those who would complain about turn based being slow probably shouldn't be playing roleplaying games in the first place.
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Thanks, <b>Corax</b>!
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[Sammael]

Those who would complain about turn based being slow probably shouldn't be playing roleplaying games in the first place.

This is beyond anal, even for you.

 

[Elwro]

This is beyond anal, even for you.

What do you mean? :shock:

 

[Sammael]

What do you mean? :shock:

It means that SP apparently must find a flaw in every single review that does not match perfectly with his own opinion.

*yawn*

What happened to objective journalism? Did it get killed off by CNN as "collateral damage?"

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

If you ever find an objective journalist, let me know.

 

[EvoG]

Saint does try too hard...becomes less funny after a while buddy!

Anyway, what stood out was ...

"Being used to the Infinity Engine games and Neverwinter Nights, I was taken back by the difficulty of an encounter..."

...hmmm, as opposed to taken 'aback'...sure its minor, but him using it incorrectly is embarrassing.

Now that could've just been a typo if he didn't say...

"There is also a steep learning curb for this game is definitely not for newbies,..."

...hmmm...this learning curb eh? Maybe he's a newb to the english language.

Oh well.

Cheers

 

[Shevek]

It doesnt seem that anal to me. TB combat is pretty standard amongst rpgs as a whole (even semi recent stuff like Wiz 8, FO2, etc). If the guy is complaining about TB combat being slow in ToEE (when it does so faster than anyother TB game I can remember - the pacing is excellent and something most reviews have commented on) and the difficulty (people have already beat it on Ironman), then I think that reviewer is deserving of considerable criticism. People with ADD shouldnt be reviewing rpgs.

*shrug*

 

[Seven]

I think that the statement was designed to illustrate that RPG's should require patience and thought, as opposed to twitch based combat which relies on the reflexes of the player and not the stats of the character.

 

[Visceris]

Aren't you guys being overly critical. After all its just a game review?

I am not complaining about it being turn based for I prefer turn base over any other type in a CRPG, but addressing the fact that there many gamers who do no like turn based combat and find it boring.

Oh well, can't please everyone.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

You don't see anyone bitching about a flight sim being real time, do you? The same thing goes for CRPGs being turn based - especially those based on tabletop rules which are turn based.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's interesting to note that it's always casual and usually clueless visitors who are bitching about Saint's journalistic style. May be we should recommend then ...what was the name of that professional gaming site...Gamer's Hall or something?

As for Saint's typos or even mistakes, EvoG, I'm sure that if we study your ass under a microscope we will find plenty of stuff to bitch about it :wink:, especially after your game is released, it is going to be released, right?

 

[Sammael]

It's interesting to note that it's always casual and usually clueless visitors

LOL. I am pretty sure that you know who I am...

Anyways, what I am trying to imply is that RPG Codex needs to tone down the unnecessary inflammatory comments, since I've been told by several developers that they avoid the site because of them. I'm not bitching for the hell of it.

 

[EEVIAC]

Why is objectivity so universally lauded? Unless the prerequisite for any form of critical writing is Autism, its not going to happen. If someone totally loses their shit over a game or a record, I'd like to hear about it, as well as a detailed apraisal of the design doctrine that contributed to that.

As an example of reader entertertainment being a function of subjectivism, I refer to this brief review of R.E.M.'s "Monster" by Chris Ott -

Try making it through "I Took Your Name", where Stipe redefines creative exhaustion, raping Cobain's room temperature corpse: "I'll be your albatross/ Devil dog, Jesus Lord/ I don't wanna be Iggy Pop/ But if that's what it takes..." Makeup Mike's revolting eagerness to become a father figure to that fuckup is an abuse of abandonment issues paramount to pedophilia. Someone Photoshop Stipe and Courtney dining on Kurt's guts and send it to me; I want to remember 1994 in the simplest terms.

 

[Psilon]

Anyways, what I am trying to imply is that RPG Codex needs to tone down the unnecessary inflammatory comments, since I've been told by several developers that they avoid the site because of them. I'm not bitching for the hell of it.

Out of curiosity, how many distinct companies employ these people? We've gotten JE Sawyer to visit, as well as Feargus Urquhart, Brian Fargo, Tim Cain, Eric Dallaire, and several others. I'm fairly certain it's not Jeff Vogel you're talking about, because Avernum 3 and Geneforge get lauded excessively--not that I'm complaining; I'm in the GF2 beta--so he's not persona non grata here. The Master Creating guys stop by, as do the Zero-Sum folks. Hell, Rosh and company even ended up getting into a rather distasteful flamewar with the Anito folks, and they're still sending us news on occasion.

Really, the only four groups that the collective actively opposes are BioWare, the Dungeon Siege people, Japanese console RPG makers, and MMORPG developers. Well, and the perpetrators of Fallout Enforcer, but that's not claimed to be an RPG by anyone.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It's interesting to note that it's always casual and usually clueless visitors

LOL. I am pretty sure that you know who I am...

Yes, but you are a casual visitor here, are you not? Casual is not an offensive word, btw, it simply means that you don't care enough.

Anyways, what I am trying to imply is that RPG Codex needs to tone down the unnecessary inflammatory comments

And that's why I said "casual", I am under impression that the regulars consider " the unnecessary inflammatory comments" to be an important part of RPG Codex's charm and identity. Keep 'em coming, Saint! :D

since I've been told by several developers that they avoid the site because of them. I'm not bitching for the hell of it.

Common, this site has been visited by many developers, and as far as I know, the conversations with them were always civil and respectful. I don't recall any "you suck" arguments, I had a disagreement the other day with JE and we both explained our position in a very civil manner. Brain Fargo dropped by yesterday, and although his take on BT was not received enthusiastically, the conversation was respectful and "good-natured" overall. So, if somebody's afraid to show up because we might say something other then "u r so awesome!!1!", well, that's too bad. :wink:

 

[HanoverF]

Anyways, what I am trying to imply is that RPG Codex needs to tone down the unnecessary inflammatory comments, since I've been told by several developers that they avoid the site because of them.

JE Sawyer and Brian Fargo dropped by despite threads ripping em new ones. If developers wish to avoid inflammatory comments, the best cure is to not make pos games

 

[EvoG]

Um, Vault Dweller...before you went on your holy crudsade to defend Saint, did you even bother to read the review of Toee from that site? If you DID, you would've recognized that those quotes I pulled were FROM the Edbis review. I didn't say anything bad about your precious Saint, other than he tries real hard for t3h phunee sometimes. So in FACT, I was sorta siding with Saint here, and being rather nit-picky about that persons( the reviewers, not Saints) lack of 'full grasp' of English phrasology.

Read everything and think before you comment and go on the attack, pal.


Cheers

 

[Vault Dweller]

Um, Vault Dweller...before you went on your holy crudsade to defend Saint, did you even bother to read the review of Toee from that site?

Oops that's funny. Well, you know, we holy crusaders are known for acting first, sorting out later, "Kill them all. God will know his own", this sorta things Please accept my deepest and the most sincere apologies. I always say that this EvoG is a great fella and Project Phoenix is going to be one hell of a game, don't I, fellas?

Read everything and think before you comment and go on the attack, pal.

*goes away muttering "first, read, then think, then attack, got it"

 

[Visceris]

Um, Vault Dweller...before you went on your holy crudsade to defend Saint, did you even bother to read the review of Toee from that site? If you DID, you would've recognized that those quotes I pulled were FROM the Edbis review. I didn't say anything bad about your precious Saint, other than he tries real hard for t3h phunee sometimes. So in FACT, I was sorta siding with Saint here, and being rather nit-picky about that persons( the reviewers, not Saints) lack of 'full grasp' of English phrasology.

Read everything and think before you comment and go on the attack, pal.


Cheers

Well, any and all criticism, constructive or not, will be considered EvoG and I do appreciate your candor. I'll try to be a tad bit more careful in my next review.

CHEERS!

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Really, the only four groups that the collective actively opposes are BioWare, the Dungeon Siege people, Japanese console RPG makers, and MMORPG developers. Well, and the perpetrators of Fallout Enforcer, but that's not claimed to be an RPG by anyone.

Actually, Sony still sends me PR stuff, even though I've told them to piss off until they decide to make an actual CRPG for the PC. And we also know BioWare Boy <i>David Gaider</i> reads our forum, because he's told everyone on the NWN forum how much he loves reading it.

Oh yeah, and Feargus stopped by #rpgcodex the other night to ask about Barbarian hit points in Temple of Elemental Evil. Damn shame I missed him, because I totally agree that ToEE's random number generator for hit points needs a more high end curve slanting. Getting a 1 on a 1d12 roll is never cool - especially when it's one roll that effects everything from that point through the rest of the game.

 

[Psilon]

I still suspect that pseudo-random username with the Bio defender complex was Gaider.

And I agree wholeheartedly that the probability distribution of the hit point dice really needs to be skewed higher. I was too used to the Infinity Engine-style "Max HP On Level Up" toggle.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Maxing HP is too much, imo. I usually accept 70%+ of the max value in crpgs, but accepting 1-2 hp for fighters and barbs is plain wrong. It's not a big deal, but I hope they address that in a patch.

I totally agree that that Bio defender user was Gaider. Nobody else is that gay

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Maxing HP is too much, imo. I usually accept 70%+ of the max value in crpgs, but accepting 1-2 hp for fighters and barbs is plain wrong. It's not a big deal, but I hope they address that in a patch.

That was one of the things that i didn't liked much in Torment. I don't care much about min/maxing characters statistically, but Torment, with lackluster combat, had me try and get good results more than other CRPGs because of that. But at times i'd get 1-2, or 2-4 HPs.

 

[Psilon]

Yeah. Having some variance in acquired HPs gives a little more flavor to being an nth-level character.

 

[Visceris]

I simply accept how the die is rolled. That is how my dwaven 3rd level Barbarian/2rd level fighter with a 19 (20) Con ended up with 70 HP while my 5th level human fighter with an 18 Con ended up with 43 HP. My fighter died in one battle in the temple and I ditched him. I am currently going through the game with four characters and just rocking the place.

My dwarf is currently sitting at 96 HP at 7th level. My human Rogue 3/ Fighter 2/Mage2 is sitting with 59 HP (damn good roll... 18 Str, 18 Dex, 17 (18) Con, 17 Int, 13 Wis, 11 Chr) while my pure 7th level dwarven cleric with a 16 Con has 58 HP.
tee hee