Interview ToTheGame quizzes HOTU devs

[Spazmo]

Tags: BioWare; Neverwinter Nights: Hordes of the Underdark

<a href=http://www.tothegame.com>ToTheGame</a> have done an <a href=http://www.tothegame.com/interview.asp?id=7>interview</a> with <b>Darcy Pajak</b> and <b>Sydney Tang</b> of <a href=http://www.bioware.com>BioWare</a> all about <a href=http://nwn.bioware.com>Hordes of the Underdark</a>.
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<blockquote>The six new prestige classes that are included with Hordes of the Underdark are the Dwarven Defender, a mighty fighting class for Dwarf players; the Weapon Master, a class that focuses on developing great skill with a specific weapon; the Shifter, a person who can take the shape and abilities of a large range of animals and monsters; the Pale Master, a class that can control and take on abilities of the undead; and the Champion of Torm, which is a holy fighter for the god Torm. The sixth—and most unique—new prestige class is the Red Dragon Disciple. This class allows the player to take on some characteristics of a dragon. The can develop a breath weapon, natural armor, strength, and even grow wings like that of a Red Dragon.</blockquote>
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<i>Break Game</i> (Su): You are not afraid of any petty concerns such as fairness, balance or logic. You gain wildly powerful special abilities for no good reason beyond it being cool to have wildly powerful special abilities for no good reason.
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Yeah, I hate prestige classes.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The part of the interview I most enjoyed was the bit about it playing like BG2. So, apparently, their mantra is no longer Every game we make is better than the last, it's now Our new game will be as good as the one three releases ago.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

<i>Break Game</i> (Su): You are not afraid of any petty concerns such as fairness, balance or logic. You gain wildly powerful special abilities for no good reason beyond it being cool to have wildly powerful special abilities for no good reason.

Yeah, I hate prestige classes.

Well, I will have to agree with you there. The prestige classes seemed like Bio's way of drawing in the power gamer crowd. Never touched them myself. NWN has it's uses, but I would like to see more games like TOEE come out. Especially if they support multiplayer. Next thing you know, Bio's gonna let NWN characters become Beholders.

 

[Spazmo]

I don't really blame BioWare for them. Prestige classes have been a powergamer cop-out since the first printing of the 3rd Ed. DMG. For chrissake, automatic magic arrows with every arrow fired? At no XP or gold cost? With a fighter BAB? And two strong saves? What the fuck?

 

[Voss]

The problem is I really like the concept of prestige classes. To focus on a certain aspect of a character concept or develop an entirely new area of expertise. There are some that aren't over-powered when compared to the core classes, though the tend to be few and far between. (Like the assassin or shadow dancer- yes they get some neat special abilties , but they aren't more powerful than the special abilities that a rogue would get at high level, and come in place of those abilities). The shape-changer is another one I particularly like, flavor-wise and balance wise. Sure, being able to take monster forms can be really impressive, but it isn't necessarily more powerful than the 10 spell casting levels that the character is giving up for not advancing as a druid, wizard or sorcerer, especially since the spells polymorph or shapechange can duplicate the shapeshifter's abilities to a large degree.

The real problem is when (as is too often the case), the special abilities provided by the prestige classes are so extreme that there is no reason to remain in the base class. The champion of torm is a perfect example. Why continue advancing as a fighter or paladin, when you can take a class that roughly gets the abilities of both? In PnP, why bother with a sorcerer class at all past 5-8th level, taking a spellcaster prestige class gives you the one class ability (spell casting) plus the special abilities of the PrC on top of that? Think about it. A sorcerer has the smallest hit die, the worst BAB progression, the worse save progression, and the smallest skill point pool. And no class features beyond a familiar. The only thing they lose, if they switch to a full spellcasting PrC is familiar progression. Oh me. Oh my. A wizard at least loses bonus feats (all of 3, but hey, its *something*)

Good idea, bad implementation on the part of WotC.

 

[Volourn]

To blame BIO for the the over poweredness of PrC is pretty lame. It's WOTC's fault; not BIo's fault. I laugh at people who say that kits from 2E were over powered yet slobber over the PrC balance.

As for TOEE.. well.. according to Troika, they were on the cool things to do but but not enough time to implement list along with sub races, etc...

I've never really killed for PrC. They are unneeded; but oh well, at least the DD is in HOTU. It's at least one I can like.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

It's not BioWare's fault that prestige classes EXIST.. But the ones they pick to add are their choice, and consequently their faults as well.

 

[JJ86]

Ok, I thought HOTU was Home of the Underdogs?

 

[Spazmo]

Not really, Saint. Most every prestige class I've ever read is utterly fucked up, and most of those taken by BioWare are from the DMG and are thus the 'basic' prestige classes.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Ok, I thought HOTU was Home of the Underdogs?

LOL... Well, to me it is. They had those initials looooong before the new NWN expansion, but it works for both. When I first saw HOTU, I thought they meant the Underdogs site as well, so don't feel bad.

And I never said BIO made the Prestige Classes. I just wish they would have implemented them better. But, like I said, I don't use them and that's the beauty of it: You don't HAVE to use them. So I guess I'm not complaining that they put them in, but rather that they could have done them better for us folks who don't want to power game, but would like to explore new venues.

 

[Voss]

Spazmo, all of one of the PrCs added in HotU is listed in the 3.0 DMG, the dwarven defender. The dragon disciple got stuck in the 3.5 dmg for some revision. The rest are from other sources.

SoU had a higher count from the dmg, but relatively speaking the assassin, shadow dancer and blackguard aren't hideously overpowered compared to the core classes.

 

[Volourn]

Well.. Also, to be fair, there are what, all of 6 PrCs in the DMg. Not eactly a lot.

Vesdies, I never cared for PrC. In fact, in the time that SOU has been out, I have had exactly one character who has taken any PrC. However, it's there as an option for those who want tot ake it. Only powergamers are worried about the power of another's character.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Vesdies, I never cared for PrC. In fact, in the time that SOU has been out, I have had exactly one character who has taken any PrC. However, it's there as an option for those who want tot ake it. Only powergamers are worried about the power of another's character.

Or those who are interested in mutiplayer. How fun is it to have one person in the party that's just leaps and bounds more powerful than anyone else? If you're doing something like PvP as well, then the balance thing becomes extremely important.

 

[Volourn]

Well.. I cna't answer about the new PrCs being added; but I do know the current five are definitely not over powered in any major way.

My character shave done just fine against non hacked PrC characters. In fact, I've a bard character who I'd wager can handle herself against most characters of her level. Hehe. Anyways, that's a side story...

 

[Spazmo]

Don't forget SoU, Voss. That expansion had the assassin, arcane archer and shadow dancer from the DMG. Perhaps not most, but several.

 

[Voss]

I didn't forget. Thats why I mentioned them.

I also pointed out that 3 of those aren't significantly over-powered when compared to the core classes.
The arcane archer is debatable... and only significantly so because of the lack of enchanted arrows in NWN ( at least ones that add to hit). But if they did have them they'd be like the other magic items- find more than you could actually use, or buy with all the cash that you have no other use for.