Editorial Diablo 3 vs Fallout 3 - Round 2 :: FIGHT

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: Fallout 3

Following up the earlier article about Diablo 3 vs Fallout 3 and making a proper sequel <a href="http://blizzardguru.com/2008/07/how-to-make-a-proper-sequel-part-2/">there's now a follow-up part 2 written by the same guy</a>. It's over on some stupid new Blizzard website (like the world needed anymore of those) but here's what he has to say:
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<blockquote>I’ll say Blizzard has an advantage when confronted with Bethesda in this issue. The Diablo series has more fans than Fallout, but since the lore was never one of the most important parts of the game, not many of them will counter Blizzard’s changes to the lore, if they exist.
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In the Fallout series, the story, the gameworld, is extremely important. In fact, several players keep stating that Bethesda is doing a good job because they’re trying to maintain the storyline, the dialog and the humour of what came before. Trying doesn’t mean succeeding.
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...
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The irony in all this is that Leonard Boyarsky was one of Fallout’s original developers, leaving Interplay after Fallout 2 to form Troika with Tim Cain and Jason D. Anderson. Now, after Troika failed due to several factors, we find him on the opposite end of the spectrum, behind what is commonly reffered as an Action Roleplaying Game, in fact, THE Action RPG, Diablo, where stats determine only your proficiency in combat, where the focus is how you kill, and not who you chose to help or who you chose to destroy.</blockquote>
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Hopefully Leonard Boyarsky can pull off some magic in Diablo 3.
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Spotted @ <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com">GameBanshee</a>

 

[Volrath]

He's right, but seriously who gives a fuck?

 

[Mareus]

Actually I think Bethcrap failed, not Troika. Arcanum and Bloodlines will live for many more years to come, while internet is already full of "Oblivion sucks" threads. And now Bethcrap is reinventing Fallout 3 which is a blasphemy! Like I said in one of my previous posts, it's like taking Star Trek and trying to turn it into Star Wars. You just can't do that!!

 

[Kingston]

Must be tough for Leon to fight his urges. He's probably running around going "How about we add some branching questlines here and -" "No, Leon, fuck your RPG shit. This is Diablo goddamit."

 

[Mareus]

Actually it's kind of sad to see Fallout mentioned on the same thread as Diablo, and the worst thing is that it's even being compared to Diablo in the VS method! I never thought it would come to this.

Fucking Bethcrap!

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

He's right, but seriously who gives a fuck?

The guy who made the second comment.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

BTW, I know a perfect candidate for the now vacant Village Idiot tag...

 

[Korgan]

HEAVAN OR LEG AND ASS!
LET'S SUCK!

 

[Truth]

http://www.gamespot.com/video/93065...lo-iii-world-lore-and-environment-art-panel-1

Like he mentioned in the panel, a lot of his stuff won't actually be seen or even used directly in game, but the influence will (hopefully) be felt on the world and lore.

 

[Gragt]

You'd be surprised how far Blizzard fans can go to defend the lore of the games... I remember when the draenei race from The Burning Crusade were announced, there was an uproar on the WoW forums because they screwed up with the lore: in the original stories, draenei were an evil race that corrupted Sargeras but in the Burning Crusade, the story was changed to the draenei being a good race being corrupted by the demons with a few of them being able to flee through the Twisting Nether in a space ship. Many people said Blizzard with that mistake ruined their gaming experience.

So yeah, never underestimate the Blizzard fanbois to defend the lore of Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft even against Blizzard itself, these peoples are camels under the weight of a self-inflicted tradition who believe that Warcraft is on par with Moby Dick.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

So yeah, never underestimate the Blizzard fanbois to defend the lore of Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft even against Blizzard itself, these peoples are camels under the weight of a self-inflicted tradition who believe that Warcraft is on par with Moby Dick.

So it's OK for Blizzard to go against established canon, while Bethesda should be bashed for this whenever an opportunity presents itself?

 

[DefJam101]

So yeah, never underestimate the Blizzard fanbois to defend the lore of Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft even against Blizzard itself, these peoples are camels under the weight of a self-inflicted tradition who believe that Warcraft is on par with Moby Dick.

So it's OK for Blizzard to go against established canon, while Bethesda should be bashed for this whenever an opportunity presents itself?

Well, yes in this case. It's just not the same; most people I know that still play Diablo 2 today know shit-all about the 'lore' of the game and could care less. The 'lore' and background of the game is shallow, unimportant, and not integral to the atmosphere that is trying to be created (if you can call it that).

o_o

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Well, yes in this case. It's just not the same; most people I know that still play Diablo 2 today know shit-all about the 'lore' of the game and could care less.

TES fans could care less about Fallout lore. What is the point you're trying to make?

The 'lore' and background of the game is shallow, unimportant, and not integral to the atmosphere that is trying to be created (if you can call it that).

Background of Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft is far from being unimportant to the game. Blizzard wouldn't bother with writing 40-page long lore sections of the manuals in that case. No matter what, a game that is set in an established universe shouldn't contradict previous installments. That's just how things are expected to work.

o_o

^_^

 

[Lemunde]

So...how many published books are based on Fallout?

 

[DefJam101]

Well, yes in this case. It's just not the same; most people I know that still play Diablo 2 today know shit-all about the 'lore' of the game and could care less.

TES fans could care less about Fallout lore. What is the point you're trying to make?

Oh, I thought we were talking about Fallout fans.

The 'lore' and background of the game is shallow, unimportant, and not integral to the atmosphere that is trying to be created (if you can call it that).

Background of Diablo, Starcraft and Warcraft is far from being unimportant to the game. Blizzard wouldn't bother with writing 40-page long lore sections of the manuals in that case.

I wasn't talking about Starcraft or Warcraft, I was talking about Diablo. Diablo is not a game about lore, the people I know don't seem to give a shit about lore. Are there people out there who do? I don't know, I'm going based on the 20 or so people I know who play it. Even if Blizzard intended lore to be important, that doesn't suddenly make the players give a shit about it.

No matter what, a game that is set in an established universe shouldn't contradict previous installments. That's just how things are expected to work.

Yup.

o_o

^_^

( - . - ; )

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

Oh, I thought we were talking about Fallout fans.

We were talking about the target audiences of Fallout 3, WoW and Diablo 3.

I wasn't talking about Starcraft or Warcraft, I was talking about Diablo.

Why? Diablo 3 doesn't contradict previous games, as far as we know.

Diablo is not a game about lore, the people I know don't seem to give a shit about lore. Are there people out there who do? I don't know, I'm going based on the 20 or so people I know who play it. Even if Blizzard intended lore to be important, that doesn't suddenly make the players give a shit about it.

But the lore is there. Some people cared, and you gain nothing by pissing them off. Not to mention that the lore is pretty good and that there is little need in creating something new.

No matter what, a game that is set in an established universe shouldn't contradict previous installments. That's just how things are expected to work.

Yup.

Then why are we arguing?

 

[Volourn]

"Arcanum and Bloodlines will live for many more years to come, while internet is already full of "Oblivion sucks" threads. And now Bethcrap is reinventing Fallout 3 which is a blasphemy!"

Um. That's dumb. The Codex is irrelevant in the big picture.

Arcanum, and Bloodlines 9as much as I enjoyed them) are all but forgotten by most people. As is Troika in general. Meanwhile, Oblivion is still having its cock suck,a nd will untuil the next ES game out. And, Codex keeps bashing which only keeps it around.

Idiot. You keep thinking your personal opinion actually matters in the large scheme of things. Talk about delusional.

 

[Unradscorpion]

Are Bethesda changing lore of Fallout?
It seems to me that the lore is the only thing that has anything to do with Fallout.

As far as I see, everyone is still loving Oblivion, their excuse seems to be non-linearity now.

EDIT: Enclave survived and is having a radio station? Scratch that first and second line.

 

[Ahzaruuk]

So yeah, never underestimate the Blizzard fanbois to defend the lore of Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft even against Blizzard itself, these peoples are camels under the weight of a self-inflicted tradition who believe that Warcraft is on par with Moby Dick.

So it's OK for Blizzard to go against established canon, while Bethesda should be bashed for this whenever an opportunity presents itself?

Yeah, cuz it's Blizzard, Y'know? They make good games and stuff!


To be honest, it pisses me off to know how much Blizzard could get away with.

 

[Gragt]

My point is that Blizzard's stories are not great, mostly mediocre though they can be good at time. Starcraft certainly is one of their most interesting setting, Diablo was more or less ok and I have to say I liked the link between Diablo and Diablo 2, that the heroes of the first game thought they won but ended up being corrupted and were used all along. The rest is not that good. As for Warcraft, it's just yet another Tolkien inspired fantasy story. That people like these is beyond me but to each their own. That they venerate it as if it's the best stories ever seen in any medium is what my main gripe is. Just because Blizzard created some amount of lore for the game does not mean it's great or even good. And I do not really mind it because they can manage to present it well, even in Diablo 2 where the story took a backseat, most monologs and cinematics were nice to hear or see, same for Warcraft 3 that I enjoyed while it lasted for the same reasons. But when you look at the big picture, it's nothing terribly good.

Still Blizzard has been consistent so far with their settings, with only some small scale errors like that draenei thing. That some fanbois got their bloomers in a twist over this was a major cause of chuckle for me. What Bethesda is doing with Fallout 3 is on a different scale: it's not a setting their created, it's not a setting they care about and it's not a setting they respect and I'm not even going into the "Fallout settings > Blizzard settings" there.

 

[MF]

The rest is not that good. As for Warcraft, it's just yet another Tolkien inspired fantasy story.

Ever played Warcraft? Or Warcraft 2? Especially the first game is really, really dark. The definitive story is basically told from the Orcish side and the narration and story events are pretty brutal. The world is also very harsh and hard-boiled feudal, unlike Tolkien's land of the fags. In Warcraft II, we learn that the Orcs won the first war and the humans fled. It started downhill from there, because Warcraft II suddenly introduced Elves and Dwarves. Then, Warcraft III was a complete furry fuckfest.

I enjoyed Warcraft II, but III really disappointed me. I still liked it, but it was pretty damn far from what I wanted it to be, and the grittyness of the Warcraft world was thrown away. I don't even need to mention WoW, it's pretty fucking terrible for any Warcraft lover.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I bet they have great pics of taurens and she-orks in rape-orgies brutalizing some young helpless male elf.

 

[Gragt]

Ever played Warcraft? Or Warcraft 2?

Yes I did. It's true it was darker (and thus more interesting) but it still isn't great.

It's actually fun to think that over time Blizzard's game abandonned the dark and gritty mood for something more colourful. Compare Starcraft to Warcraft 3, the way both end after their respective expansions. Both on a statu quo but Starcraft was far more pessimistic for the human race than Warcraft 3 did. I was also surprised they decided to basically recycle some story arcs from Starcraft into the game (such as the corruption of one of the heroes who then become the champion of their old nemesis).

And don't get me wrong, I never said I did not enjoy the backstories from the Blizzard games, as I said it is usualy well-presented and entertaining but once more far, very far, from greatness.

 

[elander_]

If you stick to computer games Diablo story is very good however not the size people expect from an rpg and could be expanded, but isn't that what Leonard B. said in an interview?

It's not the first computer game to have a story around the daemon/angel/god theme but the way the story is told is very good and blends well with the art, gameplay and presentation. Even the Diablo manual was great. I remember actuality sitting down and reading the manual before playing the game and that's something for me. I think the only manuals i bothered to read were Starflight, Fallout, Arcanum and Diablo.

 

[Gragt]

It's not the first computer game to have a story around the daemon/angel/god theme but the way the story is told is very good and blends well with the art, gameplay and presentation.

Indeed.

Even the Diablo manual was great. I remember actuality sitting down and reading the manual before playing the game and that's something for me. I think the only manuals i bothered to read were Starflight, Fallout, Arcanum and Diablo.

Well I have to say that the Rogue drawing in the Diablo manual fascinated me at the time.