Preview Differences between Alpha Protocol vs Mass Effect

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: Alpha Protocol

<a href="http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/07/25/alpha-protocol-mass-effect/">MTV Player talk about the differences between BioWare's Mass Effect and Obsidian's Alpha Protocol</a>:
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<blockquote>For one, “Alpha Protocol”’s dialogue tree, dubbed by Obsidian as the “Dialogue Stance System,” has timed responses. As players take on the role of super spy Michael Thorton, they will have control of Thorton’s reactions and interactions with other characters via the dialogue system. While there are a few options to choose from, including nice and aggressive responses, the player must choose quickly and carefully. Decide too slowly and your character will revert to saying something that suits the previous stance you selected. Also, non-player characters will not always react in the same way. Rucinski told me that conversations are “cinematic presentations,” and players won’t always have the same conversations. Players will also have a detailed chat log to refer to.
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Instead of having a customizable character like Commander Shepard, “Alpha Protocol” has Thorton, who will remain himself throughout but with a variety of costumes — like combat armor, casual wear and tuxedos — as well as face paint, hats, glasses, hairstyles, etc. “The different armor allows for different abilities for different play styles, and people will react to what you’re wearing,” Rucinski told me. “You have to dress for the occasion.”
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He also said that unlike “Mass Effect,” you’ll get at least 600 Achievement points “no matter what” for just completing the game the first time.</blockquote>
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The differences are just simply amazing. Personally, if I was trying to come up with differences, I'd find something a little better than mentioning how many achievement points you get. There's also the wonderful line "But ultimately players aren’t really punished for the choices they make". I'll let you read it and decide if MTV understand what they're actually saying.
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Spotted @ <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com">Game Has Been</a>

 

[Wyrmlord]

This AP game sounds worse with every news, screenshot, or preview on it.

Am I going to feel good about it simply because Avellone and Mitsoda are on it? No way. This is too bad.

 

[Ogg]

He also said that unlike “Mass Effect,” you’ll get at least 600 Achievement points “no matter what” for just completing the game the first time.

Obviously, games aren't EPIC enough. They need an EPIC amount of achievment points. And these points should be easy to get too. Too human also has this kind of marketing device.

The more I read about AP, the more I believe it's going to play like an interactive movie. Not many RPG elements but (I hope) a good story with some C&C and multiple branches. Your path's decided by a couple of decisions you make. Here's where they should focus on (not on the combats which will suck anyway). I just hope it won't be as bland and shallow as ME.

 

[sabishii]

lol MTV.

 

[Ogg]

lol MTV.

I remember an old ad slogan when MTV started their broadcasting in France: "MTV, le meilleur de l'Amérique"

 

[Talby]

Why are the hyping up achievement points? "The game is good because a number appears on the screen when you're finished. The number is different depending on what you do."

And the dialogue thing sounds like it'll be really annoying. I don't feel like having my character say something stupid while I'm still reading the choices I have. Then again, if it's like Mass Effect in that regard, at least I won't have to worry about reading more than three words for each choice I can make.

 

[Gromnir]

And the dialogue thing sounds like it'll be really annoying.

don't you realize that mini-games is the new measure o' kewlness? if you not have multiple mini-games w/i a game you simply ain't designing well. stuff like meaningful dialogue options and challenging combat is ssssooooo 1999. nowadays developers cover up shortcomings in design by adding dialogue wheels or lock picking feature.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[Fat Dragon]

The part about armor sounds pretty interesting with how people will react depending on what you're wearing. I'm guessing something like people becoming nervous or scared if you go strolling down the street decked out in body armor and machine guns, stuff like that. Still not too sure about how the dialog will work, I'd like to see it in action first.

But ultimately players aren’t really punished for the choices they make; there’s still an advantage to having a particular NPC dead because that may open up a whole new set of quests from an opposing faction.

Sounds pretty cool, assuming there are a lot of branches in the game like this. Already sounding better than ME to me, which I also enjoyed.

Looking forward to this game. Reminds me a lot of Deus Ex. Has Obsidian given a release date for it yet?

 

[RK47]

Xbox achievement points is the decline of gaming imo.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Xbox achievement points is the decline of gaming imo.

Eh....depends. I kinda like the idea behind them of a way of tracking your progress and maybe your friends in games,working as a quick at-a-glance resume in multi-player games, and intertwining them with game mechanics or unlockables. Sometimes contests are done with them, which are a mixed bag, but I guess it's okay.

I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the e-peen waving contest that comes around from the score element...but that's not really :declineofgaming: worthy. Heck, it's really just a "next-gen" version of high scores on the arcade machines of old which has been with gaming since close to the beginning.

Then again I probably took your post that was likely sarcasm way too seriously.....

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Confess I haven't read the article, but picking up on the 'less RPG, more story' thing, I am definitely in favour.

To be brutally honest, the only stat-based RPG whose stats and character building system I've really engaged with was Fallout, and that was because you opened and closed so many options with them beyond combat. The dumb dialogue, etc etc. And the perks and traits added flavour.
PS:T, I could have done without all the D&D combat-focused numbers which, at the same time, were shoehorned into functions beyond this (fucntions they were never designed for).

I wouldn't be unhappy if they did away with numbers and just focused those resources on making the story and dialogue better. RPG combat sucks anyway (again, the only decent stat-RPG combat I've experienced was Fallout's TB system, which seems the only logical choice for a statistic focused RPG).

What I came away with from PS:T was the story and characters, not the stats system (in fact I found it a little inhibitive, how was I to know you needed X wisdom and X intelligence and X charisma to get the 'best' ending? The connections seemed arbitrary). The stats (and combat) put me off MoTB to the extent that I gave up on it early on - if I could've been bothered, I'd have downloaded a hack to make me a combat God and just gone to the interesting stuff, the story, the C&C.

If something had to be sacrificed to tell the best story, give the player intelligent choices and consequences in how they deal with situations, I'd point to the stats.

Still, there's a difference between all that and just dumbing something down. Don't know which it is in this game's case.

And then there's the discussion about what makes an RPG an RPG, but I'll leave that.

 

[Gay-Lussac]

Obsidian should make a new Vampire game now that they have Mitsoda.

 

[Ander Vinz]

Obsidian should make a new Vampire game now that they have Mitsoda.

They don't have Ziets anymore. I'll be surprised if they make anything worthwhile in next five years. Alpha Protocol, Aliens? Heck, even NWN2X2 is a dungeon crawler.

 

[elander_]

Don't see nothing wrong with this. It's a game mechanics and this is only bad if it isn't used right.

" If something had to be sacrificed to tell the best story, give the player intelligent choices and consequences in how they deal with situations, I'd point to the stats. "

You always need some sort of character system and a way to represent what npcs and factions think of each other. You can make a rpg only with social stats (reputation, status, affiliations) and sacrifice combat stats. However the role-playing side of combat when well used will make combat more varied and more interesting.

 

[themadhatter114]

<a href="http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2008/07/25/alpha-protocol-mass-effect/">MTV Player talk about the differences between BioWare's Mass Effect and Obsidian's Alpha Protocol</a>:
<blockquote>For one, “Alpha Protocol”’s dialogue tree, dubbed by Obsidian as the “Dialogue Stance System,” has timed responses. As players take on the role of super spy Michael Thorton, they will have control of Thorton’s reactions and interactions with other characters via the dialogue system. While there are a few options to choose from, including nice and aggressive responses, the player must choose quickly and carefully. Decide too slowly and your character will revert to saying something that suits the previous stance you selected. Also, non-player characters will not always react in the same way. Rucinski told me that conversations are “cinematic presentations,” and players won’t always have the same conversations. Players will also have a detailed chat log to refer to.

Instead of having a customizable character like Commander Shepard, “Alpha Protocol” has Thorton, who will remain himself throughout but with a variety of costumes — like combat armor, casual wear and tuxedos — as well as face paint, hats, glasses, hairstyles, etc. “The different armor allows for different abilities for different play styles, and people will react to what you’re wearing,” Rucinski told me. “You have to dress for the occasion.”

He also said that unlike “Mass Effect,” you’ll get at least 600 Achievement points “no matter what” for just completing the game the first time.</blockquote>
The differences are just simply amazing. Personally, if I was trying to come up with differences, I'd find something a little better than mentioning how many achievement points you get. There's also the wonderful line "But ultimately players aren’t really punished for the choices they make". I'll let you read it and decide if MTV understand what they're actually saying.

Spotted @ <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com">Game Has Been</a>

So, the fact that most decisions have consequences, but that every choice will simply be a path through the game and not a "Quest failed" is a negative to you? Or do you not understand what it means to say that you won't be punished? They have repeatedly stressed that actions will have consequences, so I don't know what more you expect. In the very same article, they mention a guy that you can kill that will close off a sequence of side missions. Nice discerning eye.

As for the achievement points, that's mainly because I believe on Avellone's blog he bitches about completing a game and getting only 200/1000 points. So, you know, perhaps they'd rather you replay their game because it's fun, and not play it just so you can get more achievement points. Surely one comment from an interview at E3 is something to bitch about.

Also noticed that this person has 2 articles in 2 days about Alpha Protocol, and both start by saying that this is stuff they talked about at E3 last week. Who the hell knows how much more they showed? MTV is picking which feature they want to focus on in each post, and without getting the full presentation, it's kind of hard to blame Obsidian because MTV only wants to focus on similarities to Mass Effect and sex scenes which they brought up because of Mass Effect.

"This game has a relatively standard RPG dialogue mechanic and it uses Unreal Engine 3. It must be Mass Effect!"

Honestly, I don't even know that I'd give a polite response to a game journalist who watched a half-hour demo of my game, and seemed to think it was a squad based space epic where you explore barren planets in a shitty vehicle and have sex with blue aliens.

 

[themadhatter114]

http://gamecinemahd.com/article/2008/07 ... first_look

While similar to Mass Effect’s dialogue system, Alpha helps separate itself by giving you a time limit for each conversation. This helps force the urgency during intense situations, and much like real-life, can cause you to regret your actions further down the road.

Players will also have the option of customizing their play style to fit one of three different categories. Stealth, Aggressive, and Suave are all viable personality selections, and will ultimately have an impact on what answers are selectable during conversations. And to further ensure that each player's experience throughout the game is different, each kill, conversation, and action you perform will shape the world around you. For example, Stealth players will notice familiar enemies later in the story because they spared their lives in previous levels, while Aggressive players will see increased guards or security patrols because they chose to execute the same character earlier in the storyline. Each decision has its ups and downs, and it will be up to the individual player to determine what’s best for them.

The last major feature we got a chance to see was a CIA Safehouse, one of many safe-havens scattered around the world. Here players can purchase weapons, save their progress, but more importantly, change outfits and disguises. Each mission will have unique locations and surroundings that you must take into consideration, so choosing your attire appropriately is a must if you are interested in going down the Stealth path.

http://www.gamecyte.com/2008/07/24/e3-2 ... tocol/2378

However, though Thorton may start off working for the good old USA, the main attraction in Alpha Protocol is its massively branching storyline; by the end of the 20-hour game, Thorton may be working for any one of several factions. Our hero will find himself entangled, naturally, in a multifaceted global conspiracy, and the game’s developers repeatedly promised a reactive game world, whose appearance and course will be constantly altered by the player’s choices — both through immediate consequences and far-reaching implications.

The conversation is directed by general “moods,” such as “intimidation,” “friendly,” “bribe,” or “draw gun,” instead of full lines of dialogue (as in Knights of the Old Republic) or summaries (as in Mass Effect). We opted for the friendly route, and Thorton innocently asked why the embassy was on alert, and whether a fellow American might lend a hand. The marine wasn’t having it, and when we failed to produce ID, he decided to make a call to the boss, and check whether we ought to be detained. At this point, while listening to the marine’s tense radio conversation, we continued to have timed options — this time, though, they allowed us to react to a potentially worsening situation, giving us choices like “draw gun,” “retreat,” or “wait.” We waited, like a polite spy ought to, and the situation was defused — the marine got confirmation from our contact that we were okay to let inside.

Had we chosen to sneak past the marines or attack them, we might now have to fight them, as well. Or, we were told, if earlier parts of the story had gone differently, we might now be working with this opposing faction.

For my money, the last game to really execute a divergent plotline well was Deus Ex (coincidentally, another global-conspiracy action-espionage title). Still, Obsidian seems to be making the full effort, including plenty of different game elements which will reflect the player’s choices up to that point. Thorton’s safehouse will look different depending on his exploits, and the TV news will frequently contain tales (or not, depending on the stealth used) of his actions’ consequences. Thorton will meet up with many of the power-hungry factions involved in the conspiracy, and will have an opportunity to join up with several of them.

Certain plotlines can even be completely changed as a result of the player’s choices. We were treated to one last demonstration, in which Thorton corners a Middle Eastern explosives dealer, demanding to know where his latest bomb is. The man smugly replies that he has sold it to another party, but he may be willing to lead us to them in exhange for a few favors. This plot point, we were told, could lead to a number of possibilities, including establishing the bomber as a recurring contact, or even a later threat. Or, as our demonstrator was happy to show us, we could shoot him in the head, thus erasing all of those possible outcomes in one rash action and allowing us to track down the bomb on our own.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

http://gamecinemahd.com/article/2008/07/17/alpha_protocol_first_look

While similar to Mass Effect’s dialogue system, Alpha helps separate itself by giving you a time limit for each conversation. This helps force the urgency during intense situations, and much like real-life, can cause you to regret your actions further down the road.

Players will also have the option of customizing their play style to fit one of three different categories. Stealth, Aggressive, and Suave are all viable personality selections, and will ultimately have an impact on what answers are selectable during conversations. And to further ensure that each player's experience throughout the game is different, each kill, conversation, and action you perform will shape the world around you. For example, Stealth players will notice familiar enemies later in the story because they spared their lives in previous levels, while Aggressive players will see increased guards or security patrols because they chose to execute the same character earlier in the storyline. Each decision has its ups and downs, and it will be up to the individual player to determine what’s best for them.

The last major feature we got a chance to see was a CIA Safehouse, one of many safe-havens scattered around the world. Here players can purchase weapons, save their progress, but more importantly, change outfits and disguises. Each mission will have unique locations and surroundings that you must take into consideration, so choosing your attire appropriately is a must if you are interested in going down the Stealth path.

http://www.gamecyte.com/2008/07/24/e3-2 ... tocol/2378

However, though Thorton may start off working for the good old USA, the main attraction in Alpha Protocol is its massively branching storyline; by the end of the 20-hour game, Thorton may be working for any one of several factions. Our hero will find himself entangled, naturally, in a multifaceted global conspiracy, and the game’s developers repeatedly promised a reactive game world, whose appearance and course will be constantly altered by the player’s choices — both through immediate consequences and far-reaching implications.

The conversation is directed by general “moods,” such as “intimidation,” “friendly,” “bribe,” or “draw gun,” instead of full lines of dialogue (as in Knights of the Old Republic) or summaries (as in Mass Effect). We opted for the friendly route, and Thorton innocently asked why the embassy was on alert, and whether a fellow American might lend a hand. The marine wasn’t having it, and when we failed to produce ID, he decided to make a call to the boss, and check whether we ought to be detained. At this point, while listening to the marine’s tense radio conversation, we continued to have timed options — this time, though, they allowed us to react to a potentially worsening situation, giving us choices like “draw gun,” “retreat,” or “wait.” We waited, like a polite spy ought to, and the situation was defused — the marine got confirmation from our contact that we were okay to let inside.

Had we chosen to sneak past the marines or attack them, we might now have to fight them, as well. Or, we were told, if earlier parts of the story had gone differently, we might now be working with this opposing faction.

For my money, the last game to really execute a divergent plotline well was Deus Ex (coincidentally, another global-conspiracy action-espionage title). Still, Obsidian seems to be making the full effort, including plenty of different game elements which will reflect the player’s choices up to that point. Thorton’s safehouse will look different depending on his exploits, and the TV news will frequently contain tales (or not, depending on the stealth used) of his actions’ consequences. Thorton will meet up with many of the power-hungry factions involved in the conspiracy, and will have an opportunity to join up with several of them.

Certain plotlines can even be completely changed as a result of the player’s choices. We were treated to one last demonstration, in which Thorton corners a Middle Eastern explosives dealer, demanding to know where his latest bomb is. The man smugly replies that he has sold it to another party, but he may be willing to lead us to them in exhange for a few favors. This plot point, we were told, could lead to a number of possibilities, including establishing the bomber as a recurring contact, or even a later threat. Or, as our demonstrator was happy to show us, we could shoot him in the head, thus erasing all of those possible outcomes in one rash action and allowing us to track down the bomb on our own.

Daaaaamn. That's just way too awesome. Obsidian once again shows how it's done.

 

[DOS-fanboy]

I wouldn't be unhappy if they did away with numbers and just focused those resources on making the story and dialogue better.

A better solution would be, quite simply, to read a book.

You must be Desslock, from PC Gamer and Gamespot fame. He, like you, thinks that to succeed as a medium, PC RPGs need to do away with numbers, stats, combat, and strategy. Like you, he seems perfectly alright with lazy strolls through dialog laden snore fests so that he can wax pseudo-intellectually about his supposed superiority to all the other mouth breathing troglodytes who think it's perfectly okay to play an RPG that doesn't challenge you. Like you, he doesn't possess the mental acumen to create working classes, build a viable end-game character and find a way to win incredibly difficult RPG battles that are stacked against him.

You are what is wrong with this genre. It is your type of fan that encourages companies to push out simplistic, mindless refuse like Mass Effect, Alpha Protocol, Bioshock and Final Fantasy. It was your type of RPG fan that didn't buy ToEE, System Shock 2 or Arcanum.

So please, buy this Alpha Protocol. Fornicate with busty young ladies after romancing them in your genre-redefining "Dialog Stance System". Have fun using a mouse to aim for people's heads as you one-shot kill them and convince yourself that you aren't just playing a dumbed-down Counter Strike RPG. Brag to your friends that you beat a game that never actually gave you a game over screen or a failed quest entry in your log. That's what RPG'ing is about. It's about winning and getting to the end with no real effort.

Not like ToEE w/CO8. Nope, that is far too much work. Having to worry about enchanting weapons to take advantage of the boss' weakness, having to worry about flanking and AoP. Having to plan each level up carefully and obsessively. That isn't an RPG. Reading really cool dialog and banging poorly rendered ladies is.

Maybe Obsidian will make you another entry-level RPG where all you have to do to complete it is click through 5,000 lines of dialog while tightening your grip on your joystick.

Also, it's a shame that so many of you are desperately looking for reasons to love this game. You want another PS:T so badly that you are willing to buy this Halo-inspired drek just to give them the money needed to make another game.

Yet you didn't support Troika? How Hypocritical.

 

[Volourn]

"Xbox achievement points is the decline of gaming imo."

Nah.


AP. will be a fun game. It'll have both good and bad things about it. *shrug*

 

[elander_]

Good selection of quotes there themadhatter114. It shows this game at least has great potential.

 

[themadhatter114]

Good selection of quotes there themadhatter114. It shows this game at least has great potential.

I figured those could be weighed against any suspected meaning behind "But ultimately players aren’t really punished for the choices they make"

 

[Mr. Teatime]

Not like ToEE w/CO8. Nope, that is far too much work. Having to worry about enchanting weapons to take advantage of the boss' weakness, having to worry about flanking and AoP. Having to plan each level up carefully and obsessively. That isn't an RPG. Reading really cool dialog and banging poorly rendered ladies is.

Note I did question whether this sort of thing qualifies as an RPG.

But genre defining aside, yes, I'm far more interested in dialogue, story, and developing your character through in-world choices and attitude (how you deal with people) rather than stats. Maybe that's not an RPG to you. I don't know if it is to me either, but it certainly potentially makes for the sort of game I'd like to play, and that's really what I'm interested in. It just so happens - to this point - that that sort of thing has generally occurred within products marketed as RPGs. Anachronox is a great example. Stats were severely marginalised, but it's one of the best 'CRPG's I've ever played.

Oh, and I fail to see how making the tactical realisation that you need a certain enchantment to defeat a certain boss falls into the 'stats' category. Nor do I see the logical leap you make from what I said in my post to assuming I like Mass Effect, which I couldn't bring myself to finish, or to banging poorly rendered ladies - but hey, whatever you need to make your argument.

I can deal with stats. But I'd be quite happy to leave them too. They're not what I play games for.

 

[RK47]

Xbox achievement points is the decline of gaming imo.

Eh....depends. I kinda like the idea behind them of a way of tracking your progress and maybe your friends in games,working as a quick at-a-glance resume in multi-player games, and intertwining them with game mechanics or unlockables. Sometimes contests are done with them, which are a mixed bag, but I guess it's okay.

I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the e-peen waving contest that comes around from the score element...but that's not really :declineofgaming: worthy. Heck, it's really just a "next-gen" version of high scores on the arcade machines of old which has been with gaming since close to the beginning.

Then again I probably took your post that was likely sarcasm way too seriously.....

Ed, i'm being half serious. I have no problems if they track Tetris, or other arcade top scores between players. That's a skill based game, so they want to wave e-peen, that's fine in my book. Multiplayer games is fine too, it has its place. But on a single player RPG? Wtf are they thinking? Why is there even a need for this sort of tracking? Why does the developer even bother to put it in the game? Most people tell me it's Microsoft requirement, if that's the case then I guess it's the case of stupidity.

It adds almost nothing to the RPG genre.

 

[themadhatter114]

The part about armor sounds pretty interesting with how people will react depending on what you're wearing. I'm guessing something like people becoming nervous or scared if you go strolling down the street decked out in body armor and machine guns, stuff like that. Still not too sure about how the dialog will work, I'd like to see it in action first.

But ultimately players aren’t really punished for the choices they make; there’s still an advantage to having a particular NPC dead because that may open up a whole new set of quests from an opposing faction.

Sounds pretty cool, assuming there are a lot of branches in the game like this. Already sounding better than ME to me, which I also enjoyed.

Looking forward to this game. Reminds me a lot of Deus Ex. Has Obsidian given a release date for it yet?

February, I believe.

 

[themadhatter114]

Xbox achievement points is the decline of gaming imo.

Eh....depends. I kinda like the idea behind them of a way of tracking your progress and maybe your friends in games,working as a quick at-a-glance resume in multi-player games, and intertwining them with game mechanics or unlockables. Sometimes contests are done with them, which are a mixed bag, but I guess it's okay.

I mean, I'm not a huge fan of the e-peen waving contest that comes around from the score element...but that's not really :declineofgaming: worthy. Heck, it's really just a "next-gen" version of high scores on the arcade machines of old which has been with gaming since close to the beginning.

Then again I probably took your post that was likely sarcasm way too seriously.....

Ed, i'm being half serious. I have no problems if they track Tetris, or other arcade top scores between players. That's a skill based game, so they want to wave e-peen, that's fine in my book. Multiplayer games is fine too, it has its place. But on a single player RPG? Wtf are they thinking? Why is there even a need for this sort of tracking? Why does the developer even bother to put it in the game? Most people tell me it's Microsoft requirement, if that's the case then I guess it's the case of stupidity.

It adds almost nothing to the RPG genre.

Pretty sure that every 360 games are required to offer 1000 Achievement Points, and then more Achievement Points for any sort of downloadable content that you have to pay for.

It's actually kind of amusing to check what achievements your friends have. For instance, you could perhaps see which ending your friend got by looking at his gamer score. It could be fun for a game like Bloodlines if your friend only had achievements for the LaCroix or the Keui-Jin ending and you could make fun of him for getting owned. It's not really something I care for, though.

The real thing with achievement points is that it adds fake replayability to games. Maybe your game isn't interesting enough for someone to play it again to max out their Renegade points, but dammit if they get 50 achievement points for it, oh it's heaven. People actually do things like fly a helicopter under every bridge in GTA4, endlessly try to get a car to roll over 5 times in a row, or blow up 10 vehicles in 10 seconds. Or start a whole new play through just so they can get the Liberty City Minute achievement for finishing the game in 30 hours. It's pathetic.