Preview Differences between Alpha Protocol vs Mass Effect

[0gh3r]

Note I did question whether this sort of thing qualifies as an RPG.

But genre defining aside, yes, I'm far more interested in dialogue, story, and developing your character through in-world choices and attitude (how you deal with people) rather than stats. Maybe that's not an RPG to you. I don't know if it is to me either, but it certainly potentially makes for the sort of game I'd like to play, and that's really what I'm interested in.

An RPG is essentially about character development and it just so happens that in a PnP RPG like D&D that it's done mainly, no, it's done purely through combat and experience points. With that definition out of the way, you're wrong.

It just so happens - to this point - that that sort of thing has generally occurred within products marketed as RPGs. Anachronox is a great example. Stats were severely marginalised, but it's one of the best 'CRPG's I've ever played.

Many RPGs such as Neverwinter Nights 2 allow you to see the stats behind the combat. It's redundant and completely biased to point out an example of marginalized stats without mentioning games that do the complete opposite. The fact that I can point that out shows how incredibly weak your argument is.

Oh, and I fail to see how making the tactical realisation that you need a certain enchantment to defeat a certain boss falls into the 'stats' category. Nor do I see the logical leap you make from what I said in my post to assuming I like Mass Effect, which I couldn't bring myself to finish, or to banging poorly rendered ladies - but hey, whatever you need to make your argument.

Well if you're too lazy to read his post (oh the irony) then I'll summarize it for you, you need to get the hell out of the genre that wasn't meant for you and stop calling adventure games like Planescape Torment RPGs.

I can deal with stats. But I'd be quite happy to leave them too. They're not what I play games for.

That is irrelevant. The notion that you think your subjective opinion has any validity when speaking of the objective definition of the RPG is laughable. What seperates RPGs from Shooters or Adventure games are in-your-face stats, lots of combat, character development, and the little fluff we like to call Choices and Consequences, nothing else matters.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

stuff

Wow. I'd write out a proper reply but I suspect there'd be no point. How about we agree to disagree. And, uh, if you could agree to calm down that'd be nice too.

 

[0gh3r]

stuff

Wow. I'd write out a proper reply but I suspect there'd be no point. How about we agree to disagree. And, uh, if you could agree to calm down that'd be nice too.

I don't get upset over trivial discussions like this.

 

[Ander Vinz]

Wow. I'd write out a proper reply but I suspect there'd be no point. How about we agree to disagree. And, uh, if you could agree to calm down that'd be nice too.

How pathetic.

 

[Letum Fol]

It's been a while since I've seen a good old stats or not argument.

What seperates RPGs from Shooters or Adventure games are in-your-face stats, lots of combat, character development, and the little fluff we like to call Choices and Consequences, nothing else matters.

You are 3/4 wrong. Combat is never the deciding factor of how much of an RPG a game is, character development doesn't have to be done through stats and while CnC is important, it doesn't fit your argument at all. I gave you one point for trying though.

The fact is that we will never agree on what is an RPG and what isn't, and people should realize that. I don't care whether some retards think PST isn't an RPG, I KNOW that it is one and a damn good one at that.

 

[Mr. Teatime]

The fact is that we will never agree on what is an RPG and what isn't

I thought I said that from the outset, which is why I was kind of confused by the vitriol I attracted...

Anyway.

 

[Volourn]

"fake replayability"

L0L


"just so happens that in a PnP RPG like D&D that it's done mainly, no, it's done purely through combat"

False. Not in any good D&D pnp session. Most D&D pnp xp should come through story/quest completion advancement then a splkit between role-playing/skill useage/combat stuff.

Nice try, though.

 

[Letum Fol]

You didn't really get any vitriol. I don't think a person who seems to think that RPGs are defined by combat can be held responsible for their actions.

 

[Gromnir]

query:

who is the people that were unable to distinguish me from alpha protocol?

if point of article is to distinguish, then seemingly there musta' been somebody who were under impression that ap were gonna be a me clone. oddly, until this thread came to life, Gromnir never had considered the possibility that me and ap would be twins.

well, am gonna wait and see with ap... but dialogue-as-minigame seems like a terrible notion.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[themadhatter114]

query:

who is the people that were unable to distinguish me from alpha protocol?

Apparently half the journalists that saw the game at E3. Unreal Engine 3 + Dialogue system = Mass Effect.

if point of article is to distinguish, then seemingly there musta' been somebody who were under impression that ap were gonna be a me clone. oddly, until this thread came to life, Gromnir never had considered the possibility that me and ap would be twins.

Hmmm, it's been a prominent comparison on several gaming sites and several commenters on gaming sites.

well, am gonna wait and see with ap... but dialogue-as-minigame seems like a terrible notion.

Wasn't the influence system dialogue-as-minigame? I mean, it's more gamey than a simple timer. I'm actually pleased if it's true that the dialogue choices actually tell you what you are going to do. I'm not a fan of hitting/shooting people when I merely intend to be a slight asshole. I could take or leave the timer; it certainly doesn't bother me.

 

[Gromnir]

haven't paid much attention to the e3 stuff, so news that ap=me is, well, news to Gromnir. never made the connection before.

as for influence = mini-game, that is a big stretch, no? why not call crpg combat a mini-game if we is gonna carry definition to ridiculous extreme. mini-games, likes lock picking and oblivion dialogue wheel, and pretty much any other mini-games, entails some kinda skill dependent exercise different than basic gameplay on part o' player to gets a relative immediate award. dialogue interaction were part o' the basic gameplay o' kotor2 and nwn2 and motb. furthermore, took literally hours to gets payoff from influence building.

*shrug*

regardless, maybe if we had seen screenies and gameplay footage of ap from e3 we might have been more likely to understand the ap=me stuff, but the games not sound similar based on developer comments.

HA! Good Fun!

 

[LastAngryBat]

Most D&D pnp xp should come through story/quest completion advancement then a splkit between role-playing/skill useage/combat stuff.

That reminds me of this one campaign I was in where my character (Loviatan Cleric) managed to avoid combat completely, mostly due to extreamly lucky diplo rolls and lack of torture mechanics

the DM never let me play a cleric again

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

stop calling adventure games like Planescape Torment RPGs.

I invoke plane tickets.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

stop calling adventure games like Planescape Torment RPGs.

I invoke plane tickets.

Bitch. :D

 

[Pegultagol]

If they put in a sequence where Thorton travels the vast empty desert expanse with no other than a dune buggy that handles like an albatross, then we would know if the similarity is just an inspired derivation or a part of what we sometimes suspect, their embrace of 'what is good for Bioware is good enough for Obsidian' as a design principle.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

If they put in a sequence where Thorton travels the vast empty desert expanse with no other than a dune buggy that handles like an albatross, then we would know if the similarity is just an inspired derivation or a part of what we sometimes suspect, their embrace of 'what is good for Bioware is good enough for Obsidian after we make it good' as a design principle.

Fixed.

 

[themadhatter114]

If they put in a sequence where Thorton travels the vast empty desert expanse with no other than a dune buggy that handles like an albatross, then we would know if the similarity is just an inspired derivation or a part of what we sometimes suspect, their embrace of 'what is good for Bioware is good enough for Obsidian' as a design principle.

I'm hoping for endless fights with bland robots and a story about more robots who just enjoy killing everything. Or maybe change the main robots to people. They can be terrorists who terrorize for reasons beyond American understanding. The whole plot could be focused on big name politicians and intelligence officers that these terrorists have hypnotized.