Interview Emil on Fallout 3's shooty-ness

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: Fallout 3

Emil Pagliarulo has gone on the defensive at the Bethsoft forums over Fallout 3's shooty aspects. <a href="http://fallout3.wordpress.com/2008/08/03/fallout-3-emil-clears-things-up-with-more-detail/">This is what he had to say</a>:
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<blockquote>What was said recently, by both Todd and me, is that in real-time, skill affects chance to hit less than it used to. This change was made after extensive playtesting. Why? Most everyone found it annoying that you’d have your crosshair over an enemy, and your bullets would go completely wide. So we dialed the accuracy penalty back so it would feel good in real-time. Two things, however — 1.) it’s still not completely pinpoint accurate, unless your skill is really high. So accuracy is still affected, just less than it used to be. Again, it felt better this way, after loads of testing 2.) your damage output is affected with increased skill, so in run and gun, putting points into, say, Small Guns, will certainly improve your combat effectiveness when you use an assault rifle. Etc. etc.</blockquote>
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Yup, that's what happens when you change the camera angle. Game-play goes out the window. There's also the promise of a decent speech path:
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<blockquote>And last but not least, the original topic of this thread. Are Charisma/Speech characters gimped? Not by a long shot. There are tons of speech options in the game. I can’t even count how many quests and situations can be bypassed/modified/overcome by using the Speech skill. It’s incredibly valuable. In fact, with my most recent character, I’m not concentrating on Speech, and boy there are times I wish I had. It’s a completely viable play style.</blockquote>
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Using a non-speech character to lament the fact you should play a speech character may not be the best way to get the message across. Of course, there's also the chance Emil can't count all that high anyway.
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Thanks to <b>Vault Dweller</b> and the <a href="http://www.rpgwatch.com">non-ugly RPG news site</a>

 

[Texas Red]

There have been 2 quest shown off, the dead dad one and the Megaton one. Both of them haven't had any speech in them. They haven't shown a quest where you can smooth talk and I have no inclination to believe there will be anything significant.

 

[treave]

1.) it’s still not completely pinpoint accurate, unless your skill is really high. So accuracy is still affected, just less than it used to be. Again, it felt better this way, after loads of testing 2.) your damage output is affected with increased skill, so in run and gun, putting points into, say, Small Guns, will certainly improve your combat effectiveness when you use an assault rifle. Etc. etc.

I'm not really getting his argument of skills still being all that relevant combat-wise. If accuracy penalty for a lack of skill has been severely decreased, that would mean your damage output doesn't rely heavily on skills anymore. You don't need to be completely pinpoint accurate unless you're sniping, after all. Most of the action in Fallout 3 probably takes place in medium to close-range, where you can probably hit the enemies easily. And then there's bloody VATS.

But... why not use expanding and shrinking reticules? Wouldn't that make it easier for a player to tell when their bullets were likely to miss, and get less pissed off compared to a scenario where "most everyone found it annoying that you’d have your crosshair over an enemy, and your bullets would go completely wide"?

 

[Konjad]

Maybe without any speech points your character can't talk to anybody?

 

[FrancoTAU]

Oh great, so I have to purposely gimp myself and not exploit such an obvious flaw. What part of SPECIAL isn't a dump stat?

 

[Mefi]

I'll give Emil the benefit of the doubt and assume he can count to 20. So that would put situations where dialogue skills are useful as 21 then?

It's just so so so sad. It's like seeing your dead gran being humped by the undertaker.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Oh great, so I have to purposely gimp myself and not exploit such an obvious flaw. What part of SPECIAL isn't a dump stat?

Strength. You need it to carry the Fatman.

Now, to answer the lingering misconception that you can just somehow blow everything in the game away with the Fatman. Look, the Fatman shows great in demos and movies because it packs a big punch and is visually impressive. And yeah, it’s very powerful when you use it in the game. That said, you’ve got to remember a few things: 1.) The Fatman is huge, so it weighs a lot. Carry it around, and it means you can carry less of other stuff. Your choice.

Choices & Consequences.

 

[FrancoTAU]

Carry less stuff? You mean I can haul around a nuclear weapon if I discard some stimpacks and downgrade to the Leather Armor?

 

[Texas Red]

What happens if you have 10% in any gun skill and you try to fire one? Nothing? Looks like that.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

This change was made after extensive playtesting. Why? Most everyone found it annoying that you’d have your crosshair over an enemy, and your bullets would go completely wide. S

No question. There's still the possibility to actually affect your in-game aiming through numbers crunching, pen and paperstyle, if you like it that way. Think a dynamic cross-hair that reflects a set of skills, aiming speed, accuracy - it's not like it hasn't been done before. A fixed cross or dot in the middle of the screen won't suffice, naturally.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Look, the Fatman shows great in demos and movies because it packs a big punch and is visually impressive.

No it's not.

 

[DraQ]

Look, the Fatman shows great in demos and movies because it packs a big punch and is visually impressive.

No it's not.

And no, it doesn't.

 

[Inziladun]

Carry less stuff? You mean I can haul around a nuclear weapon if I discard some stimpacks and downgrade to the Leather Armor?

Of course not, extensive play testing has revealed that having to downgrade armor and get rid of a significant portion of your inventory stock just to carry nuclear weapons was annoying. Therefore there will be no weight limits on items.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Carry less stuff? You mean I can haul around a nuclear weapon if I discard some stimpacks and downgrade to the Leather Armor?

Of course not, extensive play testing has revealed that having to downgrade armor and get rid of a significant portion of your inventory stock just to carry nuclear weapons was annoying. Therefore there will be no weight limits on ammo.

Fix

And it's true.

 

[Carrie Underwood]

The problem here is that they didn't, and don't, realize that SPECIAL is not just an acronym. It's an actual gameplay system centered around pure turn-based gameplay. If you change everything about the system, even the basic foundations, then you are no longer using the system. However, the name does suit the mentality of Bethesda's developers, and their target audience, and since that audience is "special", they really won't care if they're given an apple and the person who's handing it to them calls it an orange.

There is no point in arguing this any longer. We should just come to the realization that this is NOT Fallout 3. There will never be a Fallout 3. There will only be fan-fics by pseudo-fans who get their jollies off of the bloody mess perk.

They should really call the game Fallout 3: In Name Only.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

Most everyone found it annoying that you’d have your crosshair over an enemy, and your bullets would go completely wide. So we dialed the accuracy penalty back so it would feel good in real-time.

This was your solution, you retards? Why didn't they just make the crosshair move around on the screen like in Op Flashpoint or ArmA (with it moving less and less the higher your skill is)... idiots.

 

[MetalCraze]

What? Imagine those poor console kiddies trying to figure out why they can't hit the target with true man's PC crosshair using their gaypads. Hey - those poor bastards even have their version of Flashpoint with crosshair nailed to the center of the screen (and guess what - it also has a ridiculous amount of bloom)
And Beth is worried about the comfort of their players.

 

[Crichton]

I 'll tentatively agree that most attempts to integrate character stats into aiming have been failures.

Obvious Failures:
Deus Ex
Bloodlines

Obvious Successes:
Mass Effect
GTA: SA

However since plenty of games have different accuracy stats for weapons and that works fine, the principle of different accuracy for different characters with the same weapon is clearly sound. In fact, I think if they'd just leave off that annoying "contracting square" cross-hair, even Deus Ex and Bloodlines' aiming wouldn't bother me.

The thing I really didn't like about the statement was the bit about skill still affecting damage. I can still remember shooting a cop in the head with a .38 in bloodlines and having him come straight at me like I'd just hit him with a paper airplane. ME and GTA: SA also did this, but I've come to expect "space-age" weapons to do shit damage and have a range measured in inches and in GTA: SA, headshots still killed people.

 

[LarsTheSurly]

I wonder what happens when you "miss" with the Fatman?

The damn thing probably has a blast radius of 200+ feet (though I'm not up to par on "mini-nuke" specs ). How does player skill affect that?

 

[Saxon1974]

Any word on lockpicking skill?

Was it like this?

"Man it's annoying when my lock pick skill is not high enough to open a door". "Well we better lower the skill requirement on all doors or the kiddos are gonna cry."

Yea good idea to change your vision of the game because some people whine and complain its too hard.

 

[MetalCraze]

what lockpicking skill?
You don't need no skill man. You play a goddamn lockpicking minigame regardless of your skill.

 

[FrancoTAU]

If you switch to the First Person mode, than you pick locks automatically.

 

[Joe Krow]

Missing your target is now part of the role playing.

 

[Saxon1974]

what lockpicking skill?
You don't need no skill man. You play a goddamn lockpicking minigame regardless of your skill.

What? So the skill level is irrelavent? Brilliant.

 

[psycojester]

Oh great, so I have to purposely gimp myself and not exploit such an obvious flaw. What part of SPECIAL isn't a dump stat?

Strength. You need it to carry the Fatman.

Bullshit, i'll just get a suit of power armour off the bandits that roam the country side.

 

[gc051360]

Why not just disregard the cross hair?

Go to a GTA "lock on" style of aiming. That way, you can have it entirely dependent on character skill, and there is no "I was aiming right at that guy!!!!"