Editorial Nothing good in the CRPG industry?

[Saint_Proverbius]

Tags: J.E. Sawyer

I was shown an interesting bit from <b>J.E. Sawyer</b> in <A href="http://forums.interplay.com/viewtopic.php?t=33594&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=240">this post</a> on the <A href="http://forums.interplay.com/">Interplay forums</a>. I'll let his words speak the truth for themselves:
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<blockquote>I haven't worked on any revolutionary games. It's even arguable that I haven't worked on any evolutionary games. Right now, though, I don't even know of any companies that are currently developing revolutionary or evolutionary CRPGs for PC. There may be some outside of the U.S., but it seems pretty dry around here.
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There's no reason anyone should expect big things from me. If you play something great in the future and happen to notice my name in the credits, that's fine. If you never see my name again, why does it matter?</blockquote>
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I have to agree with the above about North American developers. The rest.. Well.. Sounds like <b>J.E. Sawyer</b> needs stronger happy meds.
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Thanks, <b>Mr. Teatime</b>!

 

[Voss]

It does have the sound of someone who needs a happy, doesn't it?

Or, possibly, the sound of someone whos had another project crushed by the machinations of soulless corporate bureaucracy. Though maybe thats reading too much into it.
The speculation over at the BIS boards is mildly entertaining, however. Theres about 5 threads now, that run approximately like this:

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
"No it isn't".
"Yes it is!"
"You're both wrong- it fell months ago!"

Change is fun. Its like prodding an anthill with a stick.

 

[triCritical]

I couldn't agree more. This is why I have suggested that the CRPG's are going the way of Adventure game. If Bioware and Blizzard are the two premiere development houses, then CRPG's just suck.

As far as I am concerned, I don't like CRPG's. Hell I would be pretty stupid to call myself a CRPG fan when the last few CRPG I really liked were Wiz8, Arcanum and ToEE. I would say at least 20 high profile CRPG's have been released in the last 2.5 years and I have only liked three. :shock:

What have I done since then? Play strategy games and tactical combat games. Why these games even offer a better roleplaying experience game considering that they actually get combat right, have stats that have an impact on the game in a ROELPLAYINGE sense, and actually have the non-linearity and design to actually make the player feel as if they actually are playing a dynamic role in the universe. These games are obviously not story driven, and considering how crappy most CRPG stories are I would say this is a good thing.

As far as I am concerned JE's departure is then end of IPLY's serious RPG development. Its funny that most of haters of all that is new in CRPG's frequent the RPG codex. Oh, the irony...

 

[Spazmo]

Ooh, can you feel the angst?

That said, JE is right. While he may be a talented designer, we don't have any proof of that. All we've seen from JE is D&D IE combat games ranging from mediocre to crap. Now, I think he was good and that he could have produced a pretty okay FO3 provided IPLY didn't fuck things up for him (which they evidently did). Regardless, now he's out on his own. He hasn't got anything really neato on his resume. I can't help but wonder why the IPLY knuckleheads worship him so much.

Anyways, JE seems to be generally pretty angry at modern RPGs and, based on his track record, likes bitching about it, too. I say we hire him here!

 

[Seven]

Come on guys, JE is the biggest drama queen EVAR!!!

As for the so called change haters, well I don't think that statement is true; some ideas will work in a setting and some won't.

 

[HanoverF]

For some reason I read Happy Meds as Happy Meal

I think he's wrong in just singling out CRPGs, I mean, whens the last time you played any computer game that was truly evo- or revolutionary? Gaming is one big stagnant cesspool these days

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

For some reason I read Happy Meds as Happy Meal

I think he's wrong in just singling out CRPGs, I mean, whens the last time you played any computer game that was truly evo- or revolutionary? Gaming is one big stagnant cesspool these days

What?!?! You mean Diablo 2 and NWN weren't revolutionary?!?! The sky is falling!!!

 

[triCritical]

For some reason I read Happy Meds as Happy Meal

I think he's wrong in just singling out CRPGs, I mean, whens the last time you played any computer game that was truly evo- or revolutionary? Gaming is one big stagnant cesspool these days

I think tactical combat games, and some strategy games are actually getting better. I think strategy and tactics are some of the genres that are right now exploring their full potential with buffed out processors. If Rome Total War is anywhere as half as good as it looks it will be revolutionary.

Tactical combat games like Silent Storm are pushing the envelope engine wise, now if only Sir Tech can make a game with it.

FPS games and CRPG have both become stagnant. FPS games seem to be becoming much more evolved however, incorporating RPG like stats and puzzles. I see all FPS games sooner or later materializing into DX clones, or tactical squad based sims, which are IMO getting very good as well.

For the most part, CRPG genre is the worst of them all. The games in general are getting worse, to the point where I don't want to play 4/5 of the CRPG's released these days. AND I AM CRPG FAN! :shock:

 

[Volourn]

Getting worst compared to what? The GB games era? LMAO You mean the FO series? Oh wow. Getting worst than two of the best games ever. Oh, the humanity.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Getting worst compared to what? The GB games era? LMAO You mean the FO series? Oh wow. Getting worst than two of the best games ever. Oh, the humanity.

LOL

 

[Sharpei_Diem]

It's funny to read something like that. Here's someone who has the skill and influence necessary to affect change and they complain about how stagnant things are.....in those circumstances then, the fault lies with them. I'd agree with Seven....the less he says now, the better he looks. He starts yapping like a little bitch and it shows true colors...

 

[EEVIAC]

I almost feel bad for calling JE a crybaby - maybe he had something to complain about after all. His chances of working on something good at IPLY were close to, but not quite, four fifths of fuck all.

 

[triCritical]

Getting worst compared to what? The GB games era? LMAO You mean the FO series? Oh wow. Getting worst than two of the best games ever. Oh, the humanity.

I did not like the goldbox games, I thought the addition of tactics to a CRPG was stupid. I have done a 180 with that respect, but only because CRPG's since that time have found a good way of incorporating them. For the most parts I found the gold box games, with the exception of the Dark Sun games, to be SSI's worst stuff.

I have known you for quite sometime now, enough to know how limited your knowledge of old CRPG's is, so its not even worth acknowledging. Suffice it to say, that what I liked in a CRPG is now missing, hence IMO they are worse.

BG > BG2 > ToB > NWN, there now even the Bioware fans understand.

 

[triCritical]

I almost feel bad for calling JE a crybaby - maybe he had something to complain about after all. His chances of working on something good at IPLY were close to, but not quite, four fifths of fuck all.

Here is another side of the story.

1) He makes a great idea for a IWD expansion pack, loaded with great areas. Feargus the Fuckwit says thats great but we will only use 5 areas, and yes he knew he end result would blow...

2) Torn team laid off, JE Sawyer now in charge of IWD2, Oh btw you have six months to complete the game. Your on fuckin crack right? wrong...

3) Big chance to make an impact with BG3, looks great, a hell of a lot better then FO3 looked. Oh, but Whitey had to fuck with that one and can it too....

4) God only know how many times FO3 is going to be fucked without vasoline before the flaming frenchmen JACQUES purple scarf CAEN can it.

Meanwhile the biggest CRPG hits have been NWN, KotOR and DUNGONE SEEEEEGE!!!!!!

 

[HanoverF]

I'm not saying theres no good games out there, but Silent Storm (tho I love it) is just Jagged Alliance with some 3D zip and rag doll physics, Oh and flavor of the month WW2 combat, and I'm not sure anything has revolutionized strategy games since Dune 2, tho I could be mistaken... Considering how long they've had to perfect the genres, every game should be great, but they aren't.

Maybe I should clarify that creativly gaming is a stagnant cesspool, what passes for revolutionary is combining genres

 

[ecliptic]

Things are in a sad state, now that I think about it.. I mean Wiz8, Arcanum, ToEE, Arx Fatalis... That's about it for good stuff RPG-wise. Morrowind's modification readyness was cool, but the gameplay seemed just as shallow as Daggerfall (damned shotgun gamedesign). Always wanted to play Prince of Qin but never found it cheap enough.

 

[Volourn]

Tri, you obviously don't know me enough if you think my experience with old crpgs is limited. I thinkl what you meant to say was because I don't bow to nostalgia of the old times; I must be wrong. Setiously, other than te Ultima games, the old games were not impressive. Fun little ditties; but that's about it.

As far as BIO's games' go; it goes likes this (for the OC's anyways

BG2 - TOB - BG1 - NWN - SOU

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Tri, you obviously don't know me enough if you think my experience with old crpgs is limited. I thinkl what you meant to say was because I don't bow to nostalgia of the old times; I must be wrong. Setiously, other than te Ultima games, the old games were not impressive. Fun little ditties; but that's about it.

Have you ever tried Darklands, Volourn? If not, then I highly recommend it. Extremely indepth game for it's time.

 

[Trash]

Or try the dark sun games. They kinda look to me like an early Bg....so I guess you'll like them. You can download them at the underdogs if I'm not mistaken.

Trash

 

[Astromarine]

I loved the darksun games, but Ultima was in a class all it's own back then. They would be the only games which would stand the test of time today, if republished with good graphics. Darklands and Dark Sun as well, maybe. Not much else.

As for strategy games, I am of the opinion that the Total War games have shown revolutionary (maybe only evolutionary, but on the HIGH side of evo) changes to what came before. Shogun *blew my fucking head away* when I first saw it.

 

[Sammael]

It's funny to read something like that. Here's someone who has the skill and influence necessary to affect change and they complain about how stagnant things are.....in those circumstances then, the fault lies with them.

Really? I'd say the fault lies within their parent companies, the management, the producers, and, last but not the least, the customers who don't want any change. Hell, half of the people here would be perfectly happy with a FO3 built on FO1's engine, with no modification to the rules whatsoever.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

That's not entirely true, Sammy. I think we've finally reached the time when you can make Fallout 3 in 3D, or at least the characters in 3D with 2D tiles. I've always thought the Outdoorsman skill needed a leg up beyond where you were placed in Random Encounters or being able to enter them or not. I don't know too many fans of Fallout that don't think Outdoorsman needs more usefulness. I've also thought all the skills need gameplay mechanics uses rather than simple scripted uses for the most part, something that makes them useful above and beyond coming across that lone generator in the bottom of a vault that needs fixing.

However, I don't think the system is broken enough to toss the whole thing out and do a total revamp on it.

 

[ecliptic]

I loved the darksun games, but Ultima was in a class all it's own back then. They would be the only games which would stand the test of time today, if republished with good graphics. Darklands and Dark Sun as well, maybe. Not much else

I don't think this is quite corect. Wizardry VII, Crusaders of the Dark Savant was amazing in several respects. The sheer scope, grandeur, and compexity of the game they put on two floppies still boggles my mind. And the autonomy of the npcs.. Oh yes. There's something very cool about playing a game a second time and never meeting some of the npcs because a different npc killed them before you got a chance.That's just great.