Game News Short-term memory loss plagues the Wastelands of Fallout 3

[DarkUnderlord]

Tags: Fallout 3

<a href="http://au.xbox360.ign.com/articles/913/913618p1.html">In IGN's latest Fallout 3 article</a>, they look at the pros and cons of playing a bad guy. Inside is this juicy tid-bit:
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<blockquote>While causing chaos in Megaton, I came across several aspects of the game that make it easier to be nasty. Though you can get in a pinch if you don't save often, I found that there's always a way out of the mess you create in cities. Cause as much havoc as you like, get the sheriff and every citizen chasing you with guns ablaze, and you can pop outside of the town of Megaton and they won't follow you. Wait 24 hours and go back in and the townsfolk will have forgiven (or forgotten) your deeds. This may not be realistic, but if you go on a little killing spree for fun, you can still salvage your game in the long run.</blockquote>
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I guess radiation damaged their brain cells. No, not in the game. I mean at Bethesda. There must be radiation at their HQ somewhere there. Ahhh... The love of choice, without much consequence. At this point I'd like to ask what the nutjob who thought this was a good idea was thinking? If I'm killing the town, I'm killing the town. Why should I get the benefit of short-term memory in my favour? Are gamers really so incapable of living with the consequences of their decisions?
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Thanks <b>uhjghvt</b>!

 

[Dyspaire]

I recently had the term, "The Confetti Generation", introduced to me... meaning, the current generation of teens and 20-somethings have grown up having never been wrong, having never been denied, and having never been disappointed.

I think that's a little unfair, and would go so far as to re-appropriate the term to "The Confetti Demographic", instead.

There's a certain segment of our culture that has never had to deal with any actual consequence... I know people in their 40s like this. (And their teens, 20s, and 30s too, of course.)

It's no wonder (yet still disappointing) that game companies feel the need to cater to this demographic. I mean, we all play these game to escape the ordinary and be somewhat godly for a time... but it's far more interesting to navigate a finite, consequence-filled ruleset in the long run.

If there's not, you might as well just flail randomly at the air in front of you.

2c

 

[DraQ]

*headdeskheaddeskheaddesk*
Make it stop!

 

[Micmu]

This may not be realistic, but if you go on a little killing spree for fun, you can still salvage your game in the long run.

I love it, how every design retardedness is spinned into a positive feat in these so-called (p)reviews... 11/10

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

*headdeskheaddeskheaddesk*
Make it stop!

Hold on DraQ, there is still 10 days left (at least for ShitBoX and PS3).

 

[Andyman Messiah]

This makes me so angry I want to shot the demons with my palsma rifle.

 

[Claw]

Wait 24 hours and go back in and the townsfolk will have forgiven (or forgotten) your deeds. This may not be realistic, but if you go on a little killing spree for fun, you can still salvage your game in the long run.

Isn't it beautiful how they are ironing out all the little flaws that ruined Fallout? NPCs were so judgmental and resentful. They'd kick you out of their town and shoot you if you tried to come back. Thank Todd that's been fixed.

 

[inwoker]

Fallout npcs suffer from the same condition Memento main character was.

 

[Darth Roxor]

ALL UR ACTIONZ WILL HAVE LONG LASTING CONSEQUENCES!!!!!111111

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

LONG LASTING = 24h = Jack Bauer = BADASS

Beth's way of thinking.

 

[Ausir]

I think it's harder sometimes to define evil in Fallout, because everybody's so desperate, everybody's trying to survive. So does it make you evil to steal food to support your family?

It's easy to check. Kill the guy and see if he drops a finger.

 

[Solohk]

In contrast, a Lithuanian hitman never forgets or forgives.

 

[Elhoim]

you can still salvage your game in the long run.

Now 10 seconds to pass 24h is long run?

 

[Saxon1974]

How do they come up with these decisions? Do they all get in a room and decide them?

I have a hard time anyone would agree to that. Are they using Drugs?

 

[Rohit_N]

I think it's harder sometimes to define evil in Fallout, because everybody's so desperate, everybody's trying to survive. So does it make you evil to steal food to support your family?

It's easy to check. Kill the guy and see if he drops a finger.

You've posted this three times.

 

[LCJr.]

get the sheriff and every citizen chasing you with guns ablaze

I wonder if they go "Halt! Halt! Halt!" the whole time they're chasing you?

 

[Brother None]

I think it's harder sometimes to define evil in Fallout, because everybody's so desperate, everybody's trying to survive. So does it make you evil to steal food to support your family?

It's easy to check. Kill the guy and see if he drops a finger.

You've posted this three times.

It's still funny.

 

[Kingston]

This game is quite the clusterfuck.

 

[Sarvis]

Not that you guys would be happy with any decision they made.

1) Let the player go back to town after a certain amount of time. (WHAAA, WHAAA... no consequences!)

2) Never let the player go back without everyone in town hunting him down. (WHAA, the game's broken and I can't be evil and complete the game!)

The reality is that games, in general, haven't gotten to the point where this can be elegantly dealt with yet. Realistically, you'll never piss off an entire city. This is why serial killers get away with it for as long as they do! You're a nameless face in a crowd, nothing more. The fact that a cop remembers you beyond the time he's chasing you is unrealistic to an extent, unless he's gotten a good look at you. Even then you could throw him off with a change of clothes or dying your hair.

So until games advance to a point where:
1) Pissing off one "cop" does not mean pissing off every "cop" in the area (same for all characters, really)
2) Cops must learn your face to recognize you
3) Characters appearances can change with makeup, time, clothing, and experiences
4) Probably a few other things

You're going to be stuck with those first two options, and you'll whine about either implementation.

 

[Silellak]

Not that you guys would be happy with any decision they made.

1) Let the player go back to town after a certain amount of time. (WHAAA, WHAAA... no consequences!)

2) Never let the player go back without everyone in town hunting him down. (WHAA, the game's broken and I can't be evil and complete the game!)

The reality is that games, in general, haven't gotten to the point where this can be elegantly dealt with yet. Realistically, you'll never piss off an entire city. This is why serial killers get away with it for as long as they do! You're a nameless face in a crowd, nothing more. The fact that a cop remembers you beyond the time he's chasing you is unrealistic to an extent, unless he's gotten a good look at you. Even then you could throw him off with a change of clothes or dying your hair.

So until games advance to a point where:
1) Pissing off one "cop" does not mean pissing off every "cop" in the area (same for all characters, really)
2) Cops must learn your face to recognize you
3) Characters appearances can change with makeup, time, clothing, and experiences
4) Probably a few other things

You're going to be stuck with those first two options, and you'll whine about either implementation.

Comparing it to a modern city isn't a fair comparison.

This is the world of Fallout, where "cities" aren't exactly sprawling metropolitan areas where a serial killer can "blend in". It's much more akin to a frontier town in the Wild West. I don't think someone could go around shooting people in an old frontier town, then come back a day later in a different outfit and act like nothing had happened, buy supplies, ask about rumors, etc.

It's just a sigh of Modern Game Syndrome, where everything's been toned down for the casual gamer. If I decide to randomly kill people in half the town, I should have to live with the consequences of that. If I fucked myself out of the plot? Well then, maybe I should've been a bit more careful. That's what saved games are for.

Your idea of recognizing the face/appearance isn't a bad one, but it's not terribly feasible, and given the option between NO consequences and BAD consequences, I'll take the latter.

Everything else just makes the world feel fake and, well, game-y.

I know many Codexians are more than willing to bitch about almost anything - especially anything Bethesda related - but I don't think this is one of those cases. They are upset because it's yet-another way in which Bethesda is being disloyal to the Fallout franchise.

 

[Sarvis]

Comparing it to a modern city isn't a fair comparison.

This is the world of Fallout, where "cities" aren't exactly sprawling metropolitan areas where a serial killer can "blend in".

It doesn't take as many people as you think to blend in. I know Fallout cities aren't generally huge, but any time you have a trading hub you've got a lot of strangers moving through. If you have that, you have anonymity.

If I decide to randomly kill people in half the town, I should have to live with the consequences of that.

Only if you get caught, and only if you can't get away, and only if you can't disguise yourself somehow. Pretty much what I said above.

Conversely, and amusingly, in a small town that has few strangers going through ANY murder should be blamed on you even if you didn't do it. After all, you're the wierd new guy in town and everyone KNOWS none of their friends is a murderer right? Maybe the game should immediately end for you if an NPC kills another NPC since the town should be pissed at you.

If I fucked myself out of the plot? Well then, maybe I should've been a bit more careful. That's what saved games are for.

So why provide consequences if you're a keystroke away from erasing them anyway? Not much point, is there?

Your idea of recognizing the face/appearance isn't a bad one, but it's not terribly feasible, and given the option between NO consequences and BAD consequences, I'll take the latter.

Got it, removing quicksave.

Everything else just makes the world feel fake and, well, game-y.

You may not have realized this but: IT'S A GAME. It has 0 chance of avoiding a feeling of gaminess. Even if your idea of "consequences" were in effect it would feel like a game because I can't do everything I could in real life to dodge them. It becomes an apparent game mechanic more than anything else.

I know many Codexians are more than willing to bitch about almost anything - especially anything Bethesda related - but I don't think this is one of those cases. They are upset because it's yet-another way in which Bethesda is being disloyal to the Fallout franchise.

The Hivemind would bitch if Bethesda went to each of their houses and handed them $100.

 

[Pastel]

lol sarvis

 

[The Idiot]

Turns out it's actually 72h, and some places will never forgive you, link. Makes it a bit better.

 

[Gerrard]

Not that you guys would be happy with any decision they made.

This could have something to do with them making only bad decisions.

The points you wrote are not rocket science, there isn't anything holding them from implementing that.
Except for their stupidity.

 

[gc051360]

The Hivemind would bitch if Bethesda went to each of their houses and handed them $100.

I wouldn't.

Not that you guys would be happy with any decision they made.

Bethesda's retardation shocks me.

I don't think I'm pre-disposed to be unfair towards them...I just really think they come up with incredibly dumb ideas.

Name one thing they've added to FO3, that isn't dumb.