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Review Vault Dweller reviews Fallout 3 @ NMA

DarkUnderlord

Professional Throne Sitter
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2002
Messages
28,544
Tags: Bethesda Softworks; Fallout 3

The review most people around here have been waiting for is up. Here's what VD had to say about Bethesda's attempt at making a Fallout game:

The main quest is one of the game's biggest weaknesses. It doesn't make sense. The water contains radiation and thus isn't safe to drink. Maybe if people stopped playing with nuclear catapults and blowing up nuclear cars, the situation would improve… Anyway, even though it's relatively easy to purify radioactive water - see the quote above - top East Coast scientists, including your dad, have been trying to find a much more complex and unnecessary solution, known as Project Purity. They fail miserably at first, then you dad enters that "shall never be opened" Vault 101, raises you, but after watching a Blues Brothers rerun, decides to put the band together again and leaves the vault. You have no choice but to follow him, so the "shall never be opened" vault is opened again.

You spend some time searching for your father, asking everyone "have you seen my father, the middle-aged guy?", and that's the best part of the main quest and the game. Once you're reunited, the game hops on rails and takes you on a magical tour through one of the most idiotic game endings in the history of video games. Investing into a pair of good writers and story-tellers should be the top priority for Bethesda. The drop in quality, comparing the game to Daggerfall and Morrowind, is very noticeable and painful to experience.​

There's some maths on Page 2 which compares numbers to the game's predecessors and other fun stuff to enjoy, like this:

Towns and locations deserve a special mention. Megaton, the first town you see when you step out of the vault, is basically the only real town in the game. The rest of the humanity is more than happy with 3-5 shack settlements, old hotels, and museums. Nobody does anything and how the hell these people survive remains a mystery. Exploring different towns and different ways of life was one of the most interesting aspects of Fallout, but sadly it’s not present in Fallout 3.​

Discuss!
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
Fallout's S.P.E.C.I.A.L. (Strength, Perception, Encumbrance, Charisma, Intelligence, Agility, Luck) was tweaked to allow any character to survive and beat the game.
Tststs, lost all street cred ;)

* Some people complain that the combat is too easy and that they go through the game without dying and ever using stimpaks. I have no explanation for this phenomenon. Could be a bug, could be a different (leaked?) version.
My "leaked" version was reasonably difficult until I got power armor. After which I hardly took any damage although all the Super Mutant Masters decided to finally come out of their holes.

Overall the review was quite short. VD should have mentioned the short loading times. The vast amount of locations (too many imo) should also have merited some mention. I don't agree on the atmospheric part and I must say there may be too many options of solving some quests. If you are given so many options you don't have to live with the consequences of your character build. The game hardly ever forces you on a certain path simply because you decided to play a low charisma/speech guy. Being able to become at least proficient with every skill doesn't help either.
And while the lockpicking game itself was ok, the 25, 50, 75, 100 requirements to even try and no forcing the lock or shooting it open was quite jarring.
 

tanjo

Novice
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
42
I thought it was a good, fair review. Let's hope Bethesda learns from it, lawl

Did Pete Hines actually say that about dialog, the monkey thing? If so, why is he making "RPG's"? I don't understand... It's really not a big deal to switch genres.. You can have open-world FPS's, even ones where you have stats and missions and stuff. Why is there dialog in the game if they don't think it's important?

Personally, I stopped playing the game after I rescued the father from the virtual reality world and he wanted me to walk all the way to fucking Rivet City while he fought every radio-active boar on the way there. It was all just... not worth it. I had better things to do with my life.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,890
Location
Lulea, Sweden
DarkUnderlord said:
The rest of the humanity is more than happy with 3-5 shack settlements, old hotels, and museums. Nobody does anything and how the hell these people survive remains a mystery.

Maybe one of my most prevalent thoughts when exploring the world. It is not viable, especially not those 200 years later. Also exploring the old vaults it seems like something crazy happened in them all...

Otherwise, what can I say but that I agree with VD on most things.
 

Mr. Teatime

Liturgist
Joined
Jun 25, 2003
Messages
365
I agree with 90% of this review - he's pretty much has got it right, apart from VATS, which I'm finding OK. The thing I dislike is that it's rare to select anything other than a headshot - in Fallout there were other targets (eyes, groin) that could have equally useful results.

Anyway, great review. Identifies the main problems - Doesn't really feel like Fallout (I've adjusted my opinion on this since starting the game)/200 years after the war?!?!/sub-par writing - and compliments the parts that deserve it. Well done.
 

meeneque

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
142
Location
green pastures of internetz
Codex 2013 Wasteland 2
VD said:
The droid is helped by an organization dedicated to helping androids gain their independence. I'll repeat that.

That's what stroke me yesterday. Total BS.
Anyway, solid review VD - although I hoped it would be a bit longer.
 

Barrow_Bug

Cipher
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
1,837
Location
Australia
Solid review VD. Well put together and succinct. It's interesting though, that both reviews put together "around" the Codex are generally positive in conclusion.

And not that I want to get on Volly's bandwagon, but after the palpable hate that has been generated by both the Codex and NMA over the game's flaws- most seem to like it.
 

ricolikesrice

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2007
Messages
1,231
...

good review that pretty much sums up most of my thoughts regarding fallout 3.

only thing i disagree with is that FO3 s the best beth done since daggerfall, i personally think morrowind was a bit better than FO3 still.

but i can definitly see where thats comming from (alot more dialogue & skillchecks use in FO3 over MW)

i like that this review also gives thumbs up at where FO3 deserves it instead of merely criticising all the bad parts, not mentioning any positive ones and then concluding with "still a good game" without explaining why.

imho if only they would have hired decent writers, it could actually have been a great game instead of merely a good one. its the single biggest issue, and unfortunately unlike most other FO3 problems .... i dont believe it can be fixed by mods.
 

elander_

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 7, 2005
Messages
2,015
It's a very fair review and most important of all very informative review.

I would only disagree on the Fallout 3 versus Morrowind comparison and would say that many people would not find Fallout 3 the superior game. The reason is that we all have different weights about what we enjoy more or less in rpgs. The Codex is obviously biased towards dialog choices and interactive dialog with some gameplay but that's not the only way to make a role-playing game. Ummoded Morrowind is a very boring game, with a world even more static than it's - so called by the press - primitive predecessors, but it's a great world to explore. It offers an awesome and very believable setting, packed with small mini-books that explain the laws, history and religion of the world and complement what we cannot see in the world. It works very well in letting the player experiment different roles depending on the factions they choose (mages guild mage, telvani mage, thieves guild thief, morag tong assassin, temple priest, imperial cult priest, imperial legion soldier, freelancer mercenary, operative to one of the ruling houses). For people who favor exploration, writing quality, lore and setting consistency and faction choices then Morrowind would certainly be the superior game.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
tanjo said:
Personally, I stopped playing the game after I rescued the father from the virtual reality world and he wanted me to walk all the way to fucking Rivet City while he fought every radio-active boar on the way there. It was all just... not worth it. I had better things to do with my life.

You can just fast travel and your father will fast travel, too.
 

Longshanks

Augur
Joined
Jul 28, 2004
Messages
897
Location
Australia.
meeneque said:
VD said:
The droid is helped by an organization dedicated to helping androids gain their independence. I'll repeat that.

That's what stroke me yesterday. Total BS.
Agree that it's stupid within a Fallout context.
Seems an obvious reference to Asimov's "The Bicentennial Man", though also brought to mind Silverberg's "Tower of Glass". There are quite a few sci fi nods. Even Megaton could be seen as a reference to "Dr Strangelove: Or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb" :wink:.
 

made

Arcane
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
5,130
Location
Germany
He obviously cut down on the bitter irony in favor of objectivity. Fair review overall, but less entertaining than the famed Oblivion dissection.

Only part I can't follow is the final conclusion: it seems far too positive in light of the glaring faults mentioned throughout the review.
 

Hazelnut

Erudite
Joined
Dec 17, 2002
Messages
1,490
Location
UK
St. Toxic said:
I give it 8 points of "Encumbrance" because Vince is a special boy. :cool:

Yeah, I missed that mistake. And the west/east coast thing. Sorry. :oops:

ricolikesrice said:
only thing i disagree with is that FO3 s the best beth done since daggerfall, i personally think morrowind was a bit better than FO3 still.

I agree, but I can see VD's point of view too. I agree for all the reasons you posted elander_.

ricolikesrice said:
imho if only they would have hired decent writers, it could actually have been a great game instead of merely a good one. its the single biggest issue, and unfortunately unlike most other FO3 problems

You know, I don't think it's the writing that's the biggest problem - it's the direction. You know, Todd's job... and the reason, as VD sums up so well, that the game is a Fallout theme park.
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
elander_ said:
For people who favor exploration, writing quality, lore and setting consistency and faction choices then Morrowind would certainly be the superior game.
Except that exploration and passive reading aren't very game-like elements. I'd rather explore the real world and read "real" books (fiction or not).
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
meeneque said:
Anyway, solid review VD - although I hoped it would be a bit longer.
Shannow said:
Overall the review was quite short.
5000+ words, guys. Most reviews that I've written were 3-4,000 words.

The vast amount of locations (too many imo) should also have merited some mention.
Mentioned.

And while the lockpicking game itself was ok, the 25, 50, 75, 100 requirements to even try and no forcing the lock or shooting it open was quite jarring.
I'm pretty sure I saw some "forcing" %. Anyway, I prefer fixed skill check values that force you to invest into a skill to "success %" inviting reloads.

tanjo said:
Did Pete Hines actually say that about dialog, the monkey thing? If so, why is he making "RPG's"?
Yes.

elander_ said:
For people who favor exploration, writing quality, lore and setting consistency and faction choices then Morrowind would certainly be the superior game.
Good point.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,599
Vault Dweller said:
meeneque said:
Anyway, solid review VD - although I hoped it would be a bit longer.
Shannow said:
Overall the review was quite short.
5000+ words, guys. Most reviews that I've written were 3-4,000 words.

You know, VD, it's actually a compliment, if the guys say it's too short, means they wanted the reading to last longer.

And while the lockpicking game itself was ok, the 25, 50, 75, 100 requirements to even try and no forcing the lock or shooting it open was quite jarring.
I'm pretty sure I saw some "forcing" %. Anyway, I prefer fixed skill check values that force you to invest into a skill to "success %" inviting reloads.

Forcing in name only, iirc it didn't take strength into account, it was just a "can't be arsed to do te minigame" button.

On the whole, I liked the review very much. It was critical, but on the other hand you treated the game fair.
A few nitpicks - I think the interface problems deserve a mention - the pipboy looks cool and all, but isn't all that functional (lots of clicks to access a function, needs hotkeys to work optimally), font size is way to large etc.

The bit when you went into analyzing average and max stat value was interesting, but felt a bit out of place. I'd rather have these things put into texts, with some kind of a conclusion and all. Theoretically, smart readers can draw the conclusions themselves, but I feel that particular section might need some editing.
 

Pliskin

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
1,587
Location
Château d'If
BethesdaLove said:
The low blows werent powerfull enogh. To fair.

Needs more groinshot.

Walken-Cowbell.jpg
 

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