Review PC Gameworld bewitched by KOTOR

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

<a href=http://www.pcgameworld.com>PC Gameworld</a> posted a <a href=http://www.pcgameworld.com/review.php/id/468>review</a> of <a href=http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic>KOTOR</a> giving it <b>97%</b> for <i>a wonderful non-predictable storyline, excellent combat scenes, authentic Star Wars sounds and aliens</i>
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<blockquote>The choice or path you play is entirely up to you. The game plays out over seven planets that after a brief linear start up (an ingeniously disguised tutorial), you can visit the planets in any order you wish. You create your main character, choosing between three classes, soldier, scout, or scoundrel.
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It is almost pointless to continue without revealing the plot, so I’m just going to end this review by saying that this is the best Star Wars game since X-Wing. Those of you that have never played an RPG, will feel right at home playing this game. It doesn’t bog you down with tons of silly rules and regulations. Everything is streamlined and easy to get into without you having to learn a ton of Dungeons and Dragons rules.</blockquote>
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<b><i>Bioware: dumbing down RPGs since 1995</i></b>
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.rpgdot.com">RPG Dot</A>

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Those of you that have never played an RPG, will feel right at home playing this game.

That's like saying those that never had sex will feel right at home with a 20 dollar hooker. Does the reviewer even realize what he said?

 

[Spazmo]

<i>a wonderful non-predictable storyline</i>

It's very easy for a story to be "unpredicable" when it's also "dumb as shit".

an ingeniously disguised tutorial)

Except for that part where he goes "You can hit the SPACEBAR to PAUSE the GAME YOU'RE PLAYING RIGHT NOW." Goodbye immersion!

, you can visit the planets in any order you wish.

Not that it makes any difference.

You create your main character, choosing between three classes, soldier, scout, or scoundrel

I actually must compliment how differently the non-jedi classes play. Soldiers just kill things whereas scoundels and scouts can explode power conduits and stuff. Still, once you get the jedi powers, it's just force wave force wave force wave force wave force wave.

 

[Transcendent One]

The timeline is good, because the game gives you the opportunity to play the game from both the light side and the dark side of the force

Okay, mister, you are talking about the storyline. Please get that fact through your head before writing any more reviews.

The game plays out over seven planets that after a brief linear start up (an ingeniously disguised tutorial), you can visit the planets in any order you wish.

Either he's a moron or he considers Taris and Dantooine part of the "ingeniously disguised tutorial". Gee, that doesn't seem too brief to me, considering that it probably takes longer than any of the other planets to complete.

You can talk to almost everyone in the game, whether or not he or she has something useful to say is another story.

Really? Just on the tutorial level I killed probably several dozen Sith, with no chance to talk to them. On Dantooine I probably killed about a dozen Mandalorians. On Taris I killed so many Black Vulkars and Sith that I lost count. Yup, you can sure talk to almost everyone.

Those of you that have never played an RPG, will feel right at home playing this game. It doesn’t bog you down with tons of silly rules and regulations. Everything is streamlined and easy to get into without you having to learn a ton of Dungeons and Dragons rules.

It's morons like this that keep Bioware going in dumbing down rulesets, implementing their own pseudo rules for the mainstream, etc.

KOTOR is the first game that I’ve played through to the end (using the light side) without writing anything down. The game is just that damn good!

What the hell? The only game where I took notes in is BG, cause it was too damn hard to sort through the endless sea of Fedex. And that is not a positive thing.
Sorry for long post.

 

[Anonymous]

Everything is streamlined and easy to get into without you having to learn a ton of Dungeons and Dragons rules.

Because, y'know, D&D rules are SO hard to learn. Shit, I used to know 9 year olds that played D&D. Says alot about the reviewer.

 

[Sol Invictus]

You don't have to apologise for long posts here. We're all speed readers or something.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Ingeniously disguised tutorial? Did anyone NOT know that was a tutorial? Hell, the fact the guy kept telling you how to work the interface should tip off anyone that's not a complete idiot. Furthermore, it violates one of the BEEG ROOLZ of game design, Never inflict a tutorial on a player if they don't want it. There's no way to play the game without having that damned thing rammed down your throat each time.

 

[Elwro]

IIRC even Geneforge had that, though to a lesser extent.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

There's no way to play the game without having that damned thing rammed down your throat each time.

Actually, that is the one thing I really did not like about the game from the get go. The first time was okay, but after starting a new game and having to put up with it, I was put off. The tutorial in TOEE is how they should be done IMO. Wonderful job and a little mini-story to boot.

 

[Volourn]

Yeah, TOEE's turtorial was better than the game! :shock:

 

[Transcendent One]

The thing I was disappointed with considering the game vs. the tutorial is that in the game Troika decided to dump the individual room descriptions. Of course we all know the most obvious reason for this, but it would add so much to the atmosphere of the game. It sure did in the tutorial and even made a boring dungeon feel alive.

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

<i>a wonderful non-predictable storyline</i>

It's very easy for a story to be "unpredicable" when it's also "dumb as shit".

I think that it's not even a point of it being of good or bad quality: every story is basically non-predicatable the first time you read it. A story isn't good because you dont know anything about it from the start, that's not what makes it good.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Hey, I've been a lurker here for a while, but this is my first post.

This might be a little off topic, but I felt it was worth bringing up.

There's been a lot of talk here lately about how a lot of these reviews seem to gloss over most (if not all) of KOTOR's flaws either because the reviewer is unintelligent/lack's experience/is a moron, etc. or because the reviews are geared towards "the casual gamer."

Something I've noticed though, is, as my more "casual gamer" friends have started to play this game, they keep bringing up the same points that everyone else here does. One of them hadn't bought a PC game in 5 years, and even he was was bitching about the easy/simple combat and the shitty interface! Something is really off when someone who barely plays games at all comments on something, and "profeshunal" reviewers don't.

Oh, and my reaction to t3h ph4t k3wl tutorial was to laugh my ass off, as did anyone else I've asked about it. My girlfriend even made me play through it 3 times over, just so she could laugh at it... the things one does for love.

Anyway, just some food for thought. Thanks for the time.

 

[Otaku_Hanzo]

Of course we all know the most obvious reason for this, but it would add so much to the atmosphere of the game. It sure did in the tutorial and even made a boring dungeon feel alive.

Yes, that is one thing I did enjoy about the tutorial. Not only did it add atmosphere, but it actually made you feel like there was a DM there describing things to you. If they had managed to be able to pull that off for the actual game itself.... wow. I think the level of immersion would have been so way better and probably would have brought the game up to a higher level with some of the reviewers out there. Unless the reviewer hated lots of text in his games.

 

[HanoverF]

Unless the reviewer hated lots of text in his games.

As Oxymoronic as it sounds, I'm wouldn't bet most of these reviewers can read

Of course with a variety of voice dictation software these days I suppose its entirely possible.

My Star Wars fanatic friend who isn't really into CRPGs compared KotOR, unfavorably, to Episode 1, the only edge he gave to KotOR was no Jar-Jar.

 

[Jed]

Can't think of any other game where I gained a level in the fucking tutorial!

 

[Sol Invictus]

Jed, Neverwinter Nights. You gain a level in the tutorial in NWN.

 

[Volourn]

You also gain a level in TOEE's tutorial. :wink: Of course, NWN OC's tutorial beats that with 2 gained levels.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

Hey, I've been a lurker here for a while, but this is my first post.

Welcome aboard.

This might be a little off topic, but I felt it was worth bringing up.

There's been a lot of talk here lately about how a lot of these reviews seem to gloss over most (if not all) of KOTOR's flaws either because the reviewer is unintelligent/lack's experience/is a moron, etc. or because the reviews are geared towards "the casual gamer."

Something I've noticed though, is, as my more "casual gamer" friends have started to play this game, they keep bringing up the same points that everyone else here does. One of them hadn't bought a PC game in 5 years, and even he was was bitching about the easy/simple combat and the shitty interface! Something is really off when someone who barely plays games at all comments on something, and "profeshunal" reviewers don't.

I think there's a little bit of cowing down when it comes to games these days. I think the thought is that if you make a game even an average person can hop on and play - and enjoy, then you please everyone. I think that's what BIS/BioWare have done since 1998 with the release of Baldur's Gate, and BioWare has been progressively easied up their CRPGs ever since. The reviews seem to reflect that, since BioWare has been beating the accessibility drums since the Baldur's Gate series as well.

I think the problem your friend might be facing is that his last point of reference was from a game 5 years ago, before publishers and developers decided that if you make a game anyone can play, everyone will enjoy it. After all, that's about the time they started doing that, so there really weren't as many "accessible" games back then.

 

[Jed]

Jed, Neverwinter Nights. You gain a level in the tutorial in NWN.

I must have erased the horrible-ness from my mind...

You also gain a level in TOEE's tutorial. :wink: Of course, NWN OC's tutorial beats that with 2 gained levels.

I'll take you at your wink that you're kidding in a good-natured way; if not, I remind you that ToEE's tutorial isn't part of the campaign. I actually don't mind gaining a level in a tutorial, if it's separate: unecessary for a D&D game since I know the rules so well, but in a game with an unfamiliar ruleset, it wouldn't be a bad idea. Only if the tutorial is not part of the campaign, though. Why did Bioware change this? I can still remember the tutorial being separate in BG; why a step backwards?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Why did Bioware change this? I can still remember the tutorial being separate in BG; why a step backwards?

Because if they start making steps forward they might actually make a decent RPG accidentally which must be avoided at all costs

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

It was integrated into the first BG. Curiously it was optional; there were the wise men in Candlekeep that gave you random interface directions, and the 2 combat training ocasions: one which handled pointing and cliking for attack, and one which handled party management.

In BG2, like XJEDX pointed out, it was separate.

 

[Mr. Teapot]

Welcome aboard.

Thanks.

I think the problem your friend might be facing is that his last point of reference was from a game 5 years ago, before publishers and developers decided that if you make a game anyone can play, everyone will enjoy it. After all, that's about the time they started doing that, so there really weren't as many "accessible" games back then.

That's a really good point actually. Although, in all fairness, he is a console nut. So it's not like he hasn't been playing games recently (dumbed down ones at that). My point though, was that everyone, and I mean everyone I've talked to about this game has had the exact same issues everyone here has had. I'm talking about people who enjoy playing the Sims here. It just seems really odd that all of these reviewers are so enamored with it.

Now, I don't think that all of these reviewers are being payed off or anything like that. One of the things I have noticed about the game though, is that, despite all of the issues I, and everyone else I know, have been having with it, I still enjoyed playing it. I think I pretty much agree with everyone around here that it was definately a step in the right direction for Bioware. The thing I really hate about it though, is the way it pretends to give me a choice, but it actually doesn't. Which brings me to this...

I think there's a little bit of cowing down when it comes to games these days. I think the thought is that if you make a game even an average person can hop on and play - and enjoy, then you please everyone. I think that's what BIS/BioWare have done since 1998 with the release of Baldur's Gate, and BioWare has been progressively easied up their CRPGs ever since. The reviews seem to reflect that, since BioWare has been beating the accessibility drums since the Baldur's Gate series as well.

I recently discovered the joys of DosBox, and have been playing a bargain-bin copy of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream that's been collecting dust for about a year. Anyway, playing it has got me to thinking about adventure games, and why they pretty much died out, despite being one of the most (if not the most) popular genres in PC gaming.

Personally, I think that the way they were gradually dumbed down was what killed them. Now I don't necesarilly mean the transition from typing to icons (although I think that it was part of the process). I'm talking about how, towards the end, when major publishers stopped making them as fast as they could sneeze, the games started playing themselves for you. "Context-sensitive" cursors that basically insured all you had to do was find a hotspot, then click, and all that. Basically, all those things that insured the game played itself for you, and you really did nothing but watch those fancy FMV sequences.

You see, more than anything else, most of the complaints I've been hearing about KOTOR basically come down to, "well, I'm not really doing anything." I think this is a really bad direction for CRPGs to be heading, as you can see with the parallel I'm drawing.

Let's face it, people use interactive entertainment because it's interactive! If you take away that interactivity, the product becomes less interesting, and we might as well be watching re-runs of America's Funniest Home Videos.

Wow, sorry about the longish and incoherent post.

 

[Azael]

This is the Codex, we encourage long and incoherent posts. I agree with what you say, BTW. Games like Dungeon Siege where it feels more like the game plays you than vice versa are a huge turn-off for me and if mainstream games are moving in that direction then I'm moving away from the mainstream games.

 

[Volourn]

X, it was good natured as technically TOEE's tutorial *did* give the player a level. of course, the turtorial was seperate which is always the better way of doing it.