Editorial PCGamer: Galaxies is a better RPG then KOTOR

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

<a href=http://www.pcgamer.com>PC Gamer</a> posted this very interesting and controversial <a href=http://www.pcgamer.com/columns/alternatelives/column_2004-02-16.html>opinion</a> that basically calls <a href=http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic>KOTOR</a> a <i>story-driven game with adjustable stats</i> and states that <a href=http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com>SW Galaxies</a> is a better RPG.
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<blockquote>RPGs are not primarily about “leveling up,” tweaking abilities, or acquiring swag. Those aren’t even RPG prerequisites, although they’re usually featured as a means of allowing gameplay to evolve. If you’re not given the opportunity to make consequential decisions, and to internalize the experience, then you’re not being given a meaningful opportunity to roleplay. The more freedom you’re given to do whatever you want to do, the richer the roleplaying environment — almost by definition. That’s what makes Morrowind, Fallout, and Gothic “true” RPGs in the classic sense.
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This point brings us to KOTOR, and its superficial roleplaying. KOTOR’s environments are restrictive and linear in design, and there’s only one occasion when the player’s decision can significantly alter the direction of the story. Galaxies, on the other hand, is a more open-ended gaming world that lets you hunt Rancors, take bounty-hunter missions, craft hundreds of items, build factories, landscape cities, and participate in a player-run economy. Even if tending flora farms and building sofas aren’t emblematic Star Wars activities, they’re representative of the tremendous freedom you’re given to roleplay a virtual lifestyle of your own choosing. KOTOR’s largely non-interactive settings are just so much eye candy while you’re walking to the next action set-piece or predetermined NPC conversation.</blockquote>
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Discuss!
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[Voss]

Eh. I can see some of the arguments they're making against KOTOR. From a certain point of view, it makes sense. And there is too much in the way of limitations on what you can do in any given situation.

But... a directionless, empty environment where making clothing for dancing wookiees is a major path to cash... Not an RPG. As with Morrowind, role-playing does not create itself out of a huge game world's empty void of no interaction or purpose.
Freedom does not equal quality.

 

[Jung]

... Not an RPG. As with Morrowind, role-playing does not create itself out of a huge game world's empty void of no interaction or purpose.
Freedom does not equal quality.

LOL! Amen

 

[bobbob]

<a href=http://www.pcgamer.com>PC Gamer</a> posted this very interesting and controversial <a href=http://www.pcgamer.com/columns/alternatelives/column_2004-02-16.html>opinion</a> that basically calls <a href=http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic>KOTOR</a> a <i>story-driven game with adjustable stats</i> and states that <a href=http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com>SW Galaxies</a> is a better RPG.

<blockquote>RPGs are not primarily about “leveling up,” tweaking abilities, or acquiring swag. Those aren’t even RPG prerequisites, although they’re usually featured as a means of allowing gameplay to evolve. If you’re not given the opportunity to make consequential decisions, and to internalize the experience, then you’re not being given a meaningful opportunity to roleplay. The more freedom you’re given to do whatever you want to do, the richer the roleplaying environment — almost by definition. That’s what makes Morrowind, Fallout, and Gothic “true” RPGs in the classic sense.

This point brings us to KOTOR, and its superficial roleplaying. KOTOR’s environments are restrictive and linear in design, and there’s only one occasion when the player’s decision can significantly alter the direction of the story. Galaxies, on the other hand, is a more open-ended gaming world that lets you hunt Rancors, take bounty-hunter missions, craft hundreds of items, build factories, landscape cities, and participate in a player-run economy. Even if tending flora farms and building sofas aren’t emblematic Star Wars activities, they’re representative of the tremendous freedom you’re given to roleplay a virtual lifestyle of your own choosing. KOTOR’s largely non-interactive settings are just so much eye candy while you’re walking to the next action set-piece or predetermined NPC conversation.</blockquote>
Discuss!

Finally mainstream media recogniszes the fact the KOTOR and its ilk aren't rpgs. For the poster above you guys proably want adventure games not role-playing games.Story and roleplaying are inversly related. The more Rp'ing the less story , the more story the lless rp'ing. Or at least the worthless humps that are considered developers typically forward this notiion. I hope this is a turning point and the result is games that are rpgs(like fallout) and less aids infected shit thats marketed as rpgs like KOTOR.

 

[Severian Silk]

It's a ratio, not a quantity.
Anyway, if I didn't want a story at all, I'd rearrange the pens in my drawer.

 

[Transcendent One]

I disagree. I think story and RPing are two aspects that aren't dependant on each other. In fact, you can have crap story and crap RPing (ToEE, NWN, IWD, etc.) or you can have crap story and good RPing (Fallout 2), or you can have good story and crap RPing (BG2) or even a game relatively good at both (PS:T, Arcanum, etc.).

Of course those examples I brought up wouldn't work for anyone. I'm pretty sure there are people here who thought BG2 had crap story, but I'm sure everyone can come up with an example that would work for them.

By the way, for the article, I currently see in my head rabid KotOR fanboys on GameFAQs or Bio boards going WTF cause someone just insulted the only light in their life full of darkness.

Oh and Morrowind's got some roleplaying that usually leads to the same outcome. I can steal the book or I can kill the girl that has the book, and either way I'll be returning the book to the hot chick with armor.

 

[Realbumpbert]

I think the amount of roleplaying present in a game would depend on what you want to roleplay.

 

[Seven]

<a href=http://www.pcgamer.com>PC Gamer</a> posted this very interesting and controversial <a href=http://www.pcgamer.com/columns/alternatelives/column_2004-02-16.html>opinion</a> that basically calls <a href=http://www.bioware.com/games/knights_old_republic>KOTOR</a> a <i>story-driven game with adjustable stats</i> and states that <a href=http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com>SW Galaxies</a> is a better RPG.

<blockquote>RPGs are not primarily about “leveling up,” tweaking abilities, or acquiring swag. Those aren’t even RPG prerequisites, although they’re usually featured as a means of allowing gameplay to evolve. If you’re not given the opportunity to make consequential decisions, and to internalize the experience, then you’re not being given a meaningful opportunity to roleplay. The more freedom you’re given to do whatever you want to do, the richer the roleplaying environment — almost by definition. That’s what makes Morrowind, Fallout, and Gothic “true” RPGs in the classic sense.

This point brings us to KOTOR, and its superficial roleplaying. KOTOR’s environments are restrictive and linear in design, and there’s only one occasion when the player’s decision can significantly alter the direction of the story. Galaxies, on the other hand, is a more open-ended gaming world that lets you hunt Rancors, take bounty-hunter missions, craft hundreds of items, build factories, landscape cities, and participate in a player-run economy. Even if tending flora farms and building sofas aren’t emblematic Star Wars activities, they’re representative of the tremendous freedom you’re given to roleplay a virtual lifestyle of your own choosing. KOTOR’s largely non-interactive settings are just so much eye candy while you’re walking to the next action set-piece or predetermined NPC conversation.</blockquote>
Discuss!

Finally mainstream media recogniszes the fact the KOTOR and its ilk aren't rpgs. For the poster above you guys proably want adventure games not role-playing games.Story and roleplaying are inversly related. The more Rp'ing the less story , the more story the lless rp'ing. Or at least the worthless humps that are considered developers typically forward this notiion. I hope this is a turning point and the result is games that are rpgs(like fallout) and less aids infected shit thats marketed as rpgs like KOTOR.

This is total BS, story driven role-playing games should not be dismissed out of hand, and so called unlinear games shouldn't be taken as the be all and end all of CRPGs.

 

[Anonymous]

MORROWIND IS LINEAR, BITCHES

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Damn straight. Funny thing is, once you finish the main quest, any addiction you ever had to the game disappears.

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

The problem with Morrowind when you ignore the story isn't the freedom, it's the lack of meaning to the freedom. Join a guild, and you get a bunch of linear missions. Who cares? I certainly didn't. I thought they were annoying. One of the first things I said about Morrowind that would have made it a hell of a lot better would be if the guilds offered a list of jobs you could pick from and the difficulty of the job is what affected the reward and guild status. No more hunt the berries, then hunt the leaves, then run to this place with this or that, kill the rats - all in the same order every time. Man, that was annoying.

Just simply making the jobs selectable and having more of them would have gone a long way towards making the freeform play a lot better.

The other problem with the guilds is that there's really no point to them other than the linear mission string of them. Give me some internal guild politics. Give me some exterior politics with other guilds and the town councils where they are. Allow me to help my guild or sell it out for power somewhere else.

If they'd done stuff like that, then the freedom wouldn't have been so bloody boring.

 

[Voss]

I found the initial premise too hard to swallow. You're a prisoner. You know nothing else. They've carted you to this island and let you go with a bag of gold. They say, go find this guy in another town... we'll trust you.

I say, screw this- finding me a boat and going home.