Review RealGamer confused by ToEE

[Vault Dweller]

Tags: Temple of Elemental Evil; Troika Games

<a href=http://www.realgamer.co.uk>Real Gamer UK</a> posted a <a href=http://www.realgamer.co.uk/pcgames/reviews/the_temple_of_elemental_evil.html>review</a> of <a href=http://www.troikagames.com/toee.htm>Temple of Elemental Evil</a> giving it <b>7.6</b> because of <i>complex battle systems and confusing character development.</i>
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<blockquote>There is no doubt that fans of Dungeons and Dragons will find something to love in this game however newcomers to the genre may be put off by the games complex battle systems and confusing character development. A little more consideration for newcomers <i>(translation: moron indicators)</i> would have been appreciated but as it stands anyone who has not played this type of game before will probably spend more time reading the manual in frustration than actually playing the game. If you can tolerate a harsh learning curve then this game is probably for you, what it tries to do it does well and the various routes through the game add some replay value </blockquote>They complained several times about having to read the manual. Don't they teach kids to read in England nowadays?
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[Limorkil]

How come when you post an idiot review from one of the hundreds of moronic US websites you never say something like "This just goes to prove that Americans are fucking stupid"

This UK website is probably just trying to emulate its successful US counterparts, by being incredibly thick and gittish.

Just goes to show what we all know to be true: ignorance has no boundaries, geographical or otherwise.

 

[Astromarine]

oh Christ Almighty. Get a fucking grip

 

[Balthus]

How come when you post an idiot review from one of the hundreds of moronic US websites you never say something like "This just goes to prove that Americans are fucking stupid"

Maybe its unnecessary to prove that Americans are stupid?

 

[Country_Gravy]

Let's be fair, now. EVERYONE is stupid!

 

[Vault Dweller]

How come when you post an idiot review from one of the hundreds of moronic US websites you never say something like "This just goes to prove that Americans are fucking stupid"

First of all, we all know that Americans are stupid , second, I thought that British education was one of the best, so naturally I was shocked and surprised when one of the sons of Britain couldn't handle a lousy manual.

 

[jvn3t]

Let's be fair, now. EVERYONE is stupid!

Some more than others.

 

[JanC]

TOEE had a terrible manual. It seemed mostly copied from the PHB without full regard for TOEEs changes to the rules, and didn't give you a hell of a lot of info about what feats might be good choices for character builds. I used the actual PHB as a reference instead. I would have been frustrated had I needed to rely only on the manual.

UK gamers are usually justified in hatred of manuals anyway- game boxes are smaller, so manuals that were deluxe spiral bound whoppers in the US end up as teeny shrunk-down crappily bound things when they finally get released across the pond.

 

[Trash]

Personally, I blame the fish and chips.

Some more than others.

Surveys are very easy to manipulate or to draw wrong conclusions. Is it for example multiple choice, what was the target audience, how where the questions worded? All things that need to be taken into account when studying them.

That said, the article is pretty depressing. We all know that it was Churchill that stopped those dasterdly Martians.
Meh,

Trash

 

[Voss]

OK. For those to stupid to read the manual or have a basic grasp of how games work, I will explain how to do things in TOEE.

Click on the ground to move.
Click on creatures to attack them
Right click to bring up the radial menu.- this then brings up the various options. Click on one of those, then the target.

Oh, and you can assign hotkeys by holding down the control button, pressing the key you want to assign the action to, and then clicking the fucking thing you want mapped.

Now I realize you might need a lump of shit in your head to pass for a brain to figure out this really complex and hidden use of the interface, so most people won't even qualify for that. In which case, don't touch the magic box. It will hurt you. Just stare mindlessly at the cracks in the ceiling or something. Stupid gits.

 

[triCritical]

First of all, we all know that Americans are stupid , second, I thought that British education was one of the best, so naturally I was shocked and surprised when one of the sons of Britain couldn't handle a lousy manual.

No, England kicks the stupid people out of good schools when they come of age.

 

[Voss]

As is only right and proper.
Why waste resources on the stupid fuckers?

 

[WaltC]

First of all, we all know that Americans are stupid , second, I thought that British education was one of the best, so naturally I was shocked and surprised when one of the sons of Britain couldn't handle a lousy manual.

Your comments remind me of a 3d-card forum post I responded to awhile back, partly because the post was so inane and partly because I could certainly understand why no one else had bothered to respond to it, and partly because I felt sorry for the guy and wanted to explain to him why no one was interested in "assisting" him.

I'll paraphrase his post from memory:

"Hello all. I've just downloaded the newest set of drivers from company X," (substitute your favorite 3d-card IHV here--it doesn't matter which) "and I'm having trouble installing them properly. I wonder if someone would be kind enough to take his time and write down the proper installation instructions and help me out. Thanks."

Seeing that the set of drivers he'd just downloaded contained their own internal and detailed installation instructions (ok, drivers were for an ATi Radeon ), instructions which presented themselves during the actual installation by default, I felt compelled to to point this out to him, to further explain that since this was so he didn't need to trouble anyone else as he could simply read them himself, and to suggest that this was probably why no one else had bothered to respond to his query. I had expected him to respond with something cute like, "That's great but I can't read," or "Thanks much, but you see, I'm blind." He didn't answer that way, I was pleased to see, but his paraphrased response was: "I certainly appreciate your suggestion, but my problem is that the installation instructions are too complex for me to understand and I need them simplified." I could not see any point to further dialogue at this point since it was likely anything I said would only confuse him further...

I agree with you that lack of common sense is an international malady not restricted to any particular set of national borders, but in cases like these I can't help but think the root of the problem is cultural. As I recall from dim memories of learning how to read in the first grade, if I came to class unprepared for the reading lesson an exchange like this would inevitably follow:

Teacher: "Walt, read to me page one of your last night's homework assignment, 'See Spot Run.'"

Walt: (Looking down at the page in abject misery, trying to glean something useful from the colorful illustrations--in vain--silence.)

Teacher: "Walt?"

Walt: "Yes ma'am?"

Teacher: "Did you do your homework last night, Walt?"

Walt: "Er, yes, ma'am--I mean, no ma'm, I guess I didn't."

Teacher: (In front of entire class) "OK, Walt, you get an F for today's lesson, and I'm giving you a note I want you to take home for your parents to sign which you have to bring back tomorrow. Do you think you can handle that, Walt, or do I need to call your folks to check on you?"

Walt: (Red-faced and mightily embarrassed speaks in a faint but clear voice) "No ma'am, that won't be a problem and you don't need to do that."

Needless to say, Walt made more of an effort to apply himself from then on.

I imagine that in the last ten or twenty years, however, things have changed, and if I had been born much later, a similar first-grade exchange might have gone like this:

Teacher: "Walt, read to me page one of your last night's homework assignment, 'See Spot Run.'"

Walt: (No books, paper, or anything else on his desk, glances up at the teacher in obvious irritation at having his daydream interrupted) "Huh? What do *you* want?"

Teacher: "Walt, it's plain to see you not only didn't do your homework assignment, but you left your books at home today, again. How does that make you feel, Walt?"

Walt: (Looking at the teacher as if she has gone insane) "Huh? What do you mean, 'how does that make me feel?' What kind of nutty question is that, you bi-atch?" (Walt mouths "you bi-atch" with sadistic relish, knowing she will do nothing, as usual.)

Teacher: "Now, now, Walt. Are we feeling a bit angry today, a bit hostile? Is that it? I understand, really I do, so there's nothing to be ashamed of. Sometimes we feel like doing our assignments and sometimes we don't, isn't that right? It's all about getting in touch with the 'inner self', isn't it?"

Walt: (Stares petulantly at his teacher, Mrs. Barchinsplatt, saying nothing, and then slowly raises his hand and with a dramatic flourish gives her "the finger" with gusto)

Teacher: "Sigh-gh-h-h-h... Oh, Walt. I'm so sorry for upsetting you, really I am, and I apologize for your being angry today. As you know, your parents have made arrangement with the school nurse to dispense Ridlin for your, uh, "difficult periods," so I want you to go down and see the nurse and she'll give you what you need. If she's out of that just tell her to give you the Prozac, instead, 'kay? You know the drill, you naughtly little boy! *chuckle*"

Walt: (A strange gleam lights up in his eyes and a pleased smile creases his snotty little face)

"Yea! Gimme! I want it NOW!" Walt exclaims and runs out of the room, while Mrs. Barchinsplatt and the rest of Walt's classmates laugh pleasantly as he slams the door behind him, thinking what a silly, but terribly cute and sensitive young man, young Walt can be at times. So ends this tale of youthful exuberance.


*shudder* Just thinking about what might have been gives me cold chills, and makes me glad I'm as old as I am. Whew...

 

[Limorkil]

I just took it for granted that everyone here knew that there are stupid people everywhere, so it seemed odd to register surprise at there being dumbasses in the UK. Particularly when you look at the subset of individuals around the world known as "People who write computer game reviews". The intersection of that group with the group "Fucking morons" must be pretty huge.

And the British education being good thing is one of those myths that people in other countries have and the British to some extent believe themselves. As in the US, politicians figured out a while back that keeping people stupid was the way to go and the education system has been heading steadily downhill for some time. (I was educated in England and the syllabus consisted mainly of arson, shoplifting, underage drinking and being headbutted. Those were the days. Still, at least I never had to wank onto a biscuit and eat it - if only my parents had been rich.)

I also am not at all shocked by the lack of historical knowledge. There were a couple of years when I was a teenager where I actually thought that Hitler was an Australian.

 

[triCritical]

As is only right and proper.
Why waste resources on the stupid fuckers?

Sorry I live in a country, which has a communistic education system in place. No one is left behind here...

 

[triCritical]

I also am not at all shocked by the lack of historical knowledge. There were a couple of years when I was a teenager where I actually thought that Hitler was an Australian.

Hey no wonder our governer thought he was a role model. They were both from the same country.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I imagine that in the last ten or twenty years, however, things have changed...

Things have surely changed, but people's dumb nature didn't. The only real difference between now and then is the internet that gave dumb fucks an opportunity to share their stupidity with the world. I have seen plenty of 35-years old morons and very smart 18 -years old. People who want to learn, whether it's a text book or a game manual, will learn no matter what. The rest are looking for excuses.

 

[Seven]

As is only right and proper.
Why waste resources on the stupid fuckers?

Sorry I live in a country, which has a communistic education system in place. No one is left behind here...

And now we know why communism failed. Too many stupid people thinking that they were smart.

 

[Voss]

As is only right and proper.
Why waste resources on the stupid fuckers?

Sorry I live in a country, which has a communistic education system in place. No one is left behind here...

BWAHAAHAHAHAHAA

 

[POOPERSCOOPER]

California has the best education system EVAR.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

That's right, where people can freely learn ebonics and use it in the world of business.

 

[taks]

And now we know why communism failed. Too many stupid people thinking that they were smart.

not quite, but funny anyway. :LOL:

and tricrit, i thought you were a self proclaimed screaming liberal? that in and of itself implies favoring a strong socialist education system... ???

taks

 

[WaltC]

Things have surely changed, but people's dumb nature didn't. The only real difference between now and then is the internet that gave dumb fucks an opportunity to share their stupidity with the world. I have seen plenty of 35-years old morons and very smart 18 -years old. People who want to learn, whether it's a text book or a game manual, will learn no matter what. The rest are looking for excuses.

I think your initial comments expressing surprise that someone might review a game and actually complain about any necessity for "reading the manual" were refreshing to read, and actually struck a chord with me (as you can see from my initial response.) It's just so nice to see someone on the Internet being honest and saying what needs to be said, but doing it tactfully and often with wit. This is rare on the Internet, and I have no doubt from what you've written above that you know what I mean... I actually registered here, after a couple of months of browsing the site regularly, precisely because I enjoyed and appreciated the commentary (even when I might have disagreed with it at times.) I think this kind of commentary is greatly needed within the Internet and in short supply, and if anything I'd like to see more of it.

In my initial response, when I said "cultural" I didn't mean it in any narrow, ethnic sense, but was really talking about the difference in general cultures between then and now. (Certainly I wasn't extoling age at the expense of youth, and agree with you on that point, of course.) I'm speaking generally, and what I mean is that I think that there is far more tolerance today in the general culture for "slackwits and lazybones," and that ignorance seems to often garner a "badge of courage" these days whereas it was once generally appreciated as a handicap to be overcome if at all possible.

At the risk of sounding like a cliche', I am very much afraid that these trends actually do indicate a decline in Western civilization, and the problem with all such declines is that they are subtle and that the majority of people who exist within the societies so affected are generally unaware of what is happening until it is too late to reverse course.

I have often wondered, for instance, how it was that the civilizations of ancient Egypt and Rome went extinct, considering their longevity and/or extensive geographical projection. The traditional answer to that question is that these civilizations were consumed from within by moral and intellectual rot. But I think that is a bit of an oversimplification, and that what is often overlooked when addressing that question is the *subtlety* of the processes of decline--that the actual declines leading to the extinction of these civilizations spanned generations if not centuries. So, I think we are in decline, but that it isn't recognized as such, and so the decline continues unabated, and accelerates. (Heh... Even to the point where only one website out of a hundred--this one--understands what is "wrong" with a website formally reviewing a game and complaining about having to read its accompanying manual. It is certainly a small matter in the scheme of things, but I think it is indicative of much larger and more pervasive trends.)

I'm not trying to "butter you up" by saying that sites like this one can be, and have the potential to be, oases of logic, rationality, and even sane morality, in what is otherwise a desert of "information" growing more sterile with the passing of each day. (OK, I admit to being melodramatic... :D But it's honestly how it looks to me.)

Anyway, while I agree with you that one problem with the Internet is indeed that it provides a forum for every ill-conceived notion imaginable, and that it often does no more than spread rumor, speculation, and propaganda, I think there's a flip side that in my opinion is more significant. Not only does the Internet provide a forum for ignorance, superstition, political propaganda masquerading as "science," and all the rest of it, but the Internet also provides a forum for people who have something worthwhile to say, a public forum such people would not otherwise have. I think this site qualifies in that category, and even if some might not appreciate your commenting on how strange it is that a website reviewing a game might complain about having to read the game's manual to play the game, I'm delighted to see and read such commentary! I think it has a value that goes far beyond the obvious.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Dammit! I always knew Hitler was a fictitious character!

 

[Vault Dweller]

I think your initial comments expressing surprise that someone might review a game and actually complain about any necessity for "reading the manual" were refreshing to read, and actually struck a chord with me (as you can see from my initial response.) It's just so nice to see someone on the Internet being honest and saying what needs to be said, but doing it tactfully and often with wit.

Welcome to the Codex!

In my initial response, when I said "cultural" I didn't mean it in any narrow, ethnic sense, but was really talking about the difference in general cultures between then and now.

I understand what you were talking about. There was a time when I used to think like you, I guess every generation looks at the younger one and thinks "WTF! What's wrong with these assholes!". I'm sure that was the case between the generation of 30's and 50's, 50's and 70's, and so on. Anyway, like I was saying, I used to think that way too 'till I ran into many youngsters who were well read, smart, and as interesting if not more then people of my generation (I was born in 1970, btw). Then I changed my opinion to the one I expressed above. Doesn't mean that I'm right, of course, just an opinion.

I am very much afraid that these trends actually do indicate a decline in Western civilization, and the problem with all such declines is that they are subtle and that the majority of people who exist within the societies so affected are generally unaware of what is happening until it is too late to reverse course.

I agree that there is a decline, that's the natural course of history. If you look at it, you'd see that patterns are similar, recognizable and very predictable.

I'm not trying to "butter you up" by saying that sites like this one can be, and have the potential to be, oases of logic, rationality, and even sane morality, in what is otherwise a desert of "information" growing more sterile with the passing of each day.

I agree with you. I love this site, I joined it about a year ago myself, and I can't name another site that comes close to this one. There is a reason why I rarely post anywhere else, the stupidity is overwhleming and unbearable.

but the Internet also provides a forum for people who have something worthwhile to say, a public forum such people would not otherwise have.

Well, every cloud does have a silver lining. I don't really care about idiots out there as long as our community exists and provides a chance to share opinions among similarly minded people. Traditional weekly flamings are fun too.