Development Info Doublebear Morale III

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Tags: DoubleBear Productions

Brian Mitsoda <a href="http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php/topic,1415.0.html">continues to talk about morale</a> in his Zombie RPG.
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<p style="margin-left:50px;border-style:solid;border-width:1px;border-top-color:#ffffff;padding:5px;border-right-color:#bbbbbb;border-left-color:#ffffff;border-bottom-color:#bbbbbb;">This week I wanted to touch on one of the ways that Morale affects combat, and that is the concept of Panic. Panic determines when NPCs lose their will to fight or become frightened. Panicked allies or enemies will try to flee from attackers and cower or heal themselves, depending on the type of Panic. While in this state, they will have the Panicked status and will not respond to commands. When enemies panic, the battle tips in your favor, but when allies panic, the only thing that will keep them safe is figuring out the trigger and eliminating it. The player will NEVER panic no matter what – Panic is an NPC-only trait. Once again – Panic is an NPC trait and does NOT affect the player character ever.
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Panic is caused in two different ways – from reaching a damage threshold or from Horror, their tolerance for the presence of zombies. Depending on the individual, some will try to get away from danger if they lose too much health, while others will fight until they're bleeding out on the ground. The best way to counter damage-based Panic is too keep an eye on ally health and patch them up regularly – you’ll probably get a feel for how much punishment they can take after a few combat situations.
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Spotted at: <A HREF="http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php">IronTower Studios</A>

 

[GarfunkeL]

Should affect PC too.

 

[Phelot]

I was thinking the same thing. If you can normally control NPCs then why can't the player character panic as well?

I hope they take on some new twists with panic. It's been done before so it'd be cool if a panicked character closes/locks doors or pushes through allies to escape.

 

[WhiskeyWolf]

Should affect PC too.

 

[HanoverF]

Or shoots through them to kill zombies. Or eats a bullet.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Should affect PC too.

 

[Silellak]

Should affect PC too.

I wonder if that's something that could make it into the "hardcore" mode - the mode where the PC can actually get infected, among other changes.

 

[SuicideBunny]

every time i read one of these, my cock feels teased.

 

[Elhoim]

I was thinking the same thing. If you can normally control NPCs then why can't the player character panic as well?

I hope they take on some new twists with panic. It's been done before so it'd be cool if a panicked character closes/locks doors or pushes through allies to escape.

You can't control NPCs. You can give them general commands, but not control them.

 

[thesheeep]

Should affect PC too.

... or at least a proper reason should be given WHY the PC can't panic.
"Because the player won't like it" is just a lame excuse.
You could make it so that the PC can recover on his own, based on some talent or attributes or whatever...

 

[shihonage]

Panicked allies or enemies will try to flee from attackers and cower or heal themselves, depending on the type of Panic. While in this state, they will have the Panicked status and will not respond to commands.

A lot of such "realism" features seem fine while in dry-run mode inside the designer's head, but when put inside the actual game they can turn out to be annoying to the player.

When enemies panic, the battle tips in your favor, but when allies panic, the only thing that will keep them safe is figuring out the trigger and eliminating it.

In order to make this a fun (and manageable) combat mechanic, I would suggest playing with the following:

1) regular zombies are unable to trigger panic
2) "special" zombies that show up from time to time, can trigger panic
3) eliminating the "specials" removes panic

 

[Phelot]

I was thinking the same thing. If you can normally control NPCs then why can't the player character panic as well?

I hope they take on some new twists with panic. It's been done before so it'd be cool if a panicked character closes/locks doors or pushes through allies to escape.

You can't control NPCs. You can give them general commands, but not control them.

Ahhh, I see, thanks.

In that case I can see why the PC can't panic. I can see a plethora of bugs and other issues if the PC panics and no NPC is able to resolve the situation on their own. You might get into situations were you can't end combat or something.

Also, I can see how some would hate the idea of spending countless turns watching their character flail about in panic.

Still, it would be cool

 

[Taoreich]

It could work similarly to DCotE's insanity system

 

[BeholderX]

... or at least a proper reason should be given WHY the PC can't panic.

I think that'll be the game's big hook, like the Nameless One's mysterious immortality in PST. Off the top of my head, it could mean that you're

- a sociopath
- the only male character in the game
- a half-zombie, incapable of any emotion yet still capable of rational thought
- dreaming everything that happens in the game, thus subconsciously aware of the fact that there's never any real danger


I'm sure the real answer will blow us all away! :wink:

 

[Barrow_Bug]

Screen shots or GTFO.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Panicked allies or enemies will try to flee from attackers and cower or heal themselves, depending on the type of Panic. While in this state, they will have the Panicked status and will not respond to commands.

A lot of such "realism" features seem fine while in dry-run mode inside the designer's head, but when put inside the actual game they can turn out to be annoying to the player.

Which I think is the reason for the PC not panicking. While the concept sounds cool, losing control over your character often could make the game annoying and unplayable. People already complain about stupid npc ally AI in games without direct control over them, imagine the bitching if the AI constantly takes over your guy and fucks you over.

 

[Melcar]

Should affect PC too.

I wonder if that's something that could make it into the "hardcore" mode - the mode where the PC can actually get infected, among other changes.

Make the PC immune on easy mode and do it properly on a harder difficulty. Sounds reasonable enough.

 

[ChristofferC]

I think it's a good decision because most people hate loisng control over their character.

 

[tilting_msh]

Should affect PC too.

I wonder if that's something that could make it into the "hardcore" mode - the mode where the PC can actually get infected, among other changes.

Make the PC immune on easy mode and do it properly on a harder difficulty. Sounds reasonable enough.

How is the computer determining when you are scared and then taking control of your character "doing it properly"?

 

[GarfunkeL]

What's the alternative? That PC is immune to panic? Or that you LARP your panicking?

 

[Melcar]

All I'm saying that having a PC immune to panic in a game were panic is an important mechanic seems really lame. Are we playing some sort of Neo here? Okay, make it so that panic isn't as effective on the PC as with everyone else, or have creative ways that you could counter such attacks.

 

[tilting_msh]

All I'm saying that having a PC immune to panic in a game were panic is an important mechanic seems really lame. Are we playing some sort of Neo here? Okay, make it so that panic isn't as effective on the PC as with everyone else, or have creative ways that you could counter such attacks.

IIRC,the devs mentioned there are NPC's that are immune to panic, as well. Some people will freak out when they are being attacked by zombies, some, like the player character, won't.

Besides the obvious reason that having the game arbitrarily take control of your character ("YOU ARE NOW SCARED" *loses control of player character*) would be an idiotic design choice, I think the most logical "reason" the PC doesn't panic is, as the main character in a game about zombies, you AKA the PC is able to deal with zombies without freaking out.

 

[denizsi]

I'd like to know if there is a particular reason for the PC being immune to panic other than a design decision, a poor one, to keep the game gamer-friendly.

Panic doesn't have to mean that you lose control over your character. It could mean getting mild to massive penalties for various rolls or stats so that when you panic, you don't operate optimally. You could decide between rolling a sanity check to minimize penalties for your subsequent actions or take risks by forcing yourself into a task or take the safest (but potentially the most useless) series of actions where a successful roll to keep calm helps with staying calm, forcing yourself into a task and pulling it well helps with minimizing panic penalties, running away or doing whatever is the least confrontational gives bonuses for following a similar series of actions gradually in the future. Or anything similarly without taking away the control from the player.

Each one of these options could have an impact on the party and the characters' trust in PC as modifiers for their own state of panic vs calm.

And backgrounds or traits in character creation to determine some of these.

Obviously, this is more work, though.

 

[Phelot]

Panic doesn't have to mean that you lose control over your character. It could mean getting mild to massive penalties for various rolls or stats so that when you panic, you don't operate optimally. You could decide between rolling a sanity check to minimize penalties for your subsequent actions or take risks by forcing yourself into a task or take the safest (but potentially the most useless) series of actions where a successful roll to keep calm helps with staying calm, forcing yourself into a task and pulling it well helps with minimizing panic penalties, running away or doing whatever is the least confrontational gives bonuses for following a similar series of actions gradually in the future. Or anything similarly without taking away the control from the player.

I don't see how it could be anything other then losing control of your character. The loss of stats doesn't make sense to me. You'd lose agility for example when you panic? So you move slower? That doesn't sound like panic. The only way I could see this work is if certain attack types are restricted when the PC panics so you wouldn't be able to take aimed shots and perhaps your skills would take hits. But I still don't think it emulates panic that well when the most common form of panic is to get away. Maybe I'm missing what you're saying

 

[Melcar]

Stat loss could work and brings interesting possibilities, but they would most likely have to rework the whole stat system for it to be effective.
Being immune to panic is still lame no matter what. Life/gaming is a bitch. Just make it so as you progress and get stronger you can protect yourself better against panic attacks. After you've deal with a few zombies, you are less likely to panic as much as when you encountered your first one.
Want to make the PC immune to panic? Fine, but there better be a darn good reason/explanation in-game for such a perk (you've deal with shitloads of zombies and similar creatures for a while, a mental disorder that somehow makes you immune to most psychological attacks, etc.).